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   1. tfbg9 Posted: October 14, 2004 at 07:16 PM (#916543)
Yeah! Well, I'm not gonna just stand here and let somebody badmouth the United States of America! Gentlemen?
[marches out of chatroom]
   2. Darren Posted: October 14, 2004 at 07:30 PM (#916576)
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
   3. Toby Posted: October 14, 2004 at 08:06 PM (#916645)
Let's hope that Lowe does start Game 5.

First, that means that we didn't get swept in 4.

Second, Lowe at Fenway is a completely different pitcher than Lowe on the road. It's been true this year and it's been true every year. At Fenway, he's no ace, but he's solid.
   4. Olympic Village Idiot (Dan from Brooklyn) Posted: October 14, 2004 at 08:31 PM (#916668)
"You see, Billy Mumphrey was a simple, country boy, some might say a ####-eyed optimist..."

Arroyo rights the Sox ship, Wakefield pulls one out of his ass, then Moose and Lieber dominate. Yanks in 6.
   5. Olympic Village Idiot (Dan from Brooklyn) Posted: October 14, 2004 at 08:32 PM (#916671)
The Nanny stopped c-ock-eyed? Whatever.
   6. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: October 14, 2004 at 08:37 PM (#916684)
"You see, Billy Mumphrey was a simple, country boy, some might say a ####-eyed optimist..."

Speaking of international intrigue, remember when George got sent to Cuba to recruit ballplayers?
   7. SM in DC Posted: October 14, 2004 at 08:51 PM (#916723)
Call it blind homerism, call it obnoxiousness, call it whatever you like, but as said yesterday, the Red Sox are cooked, fried, crisped, finished, done.
   8. Schilling's Sprained Ankiel Posted: October 14, 2004 at 09:05 PM (#916752)
That's what I call it, SM. Maybe we shouldn't even play the games!
DB
   9. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 14, 2004 at 09:10 PM (#916758)
Call it blind homerism, call it obnoxiousness, call it whatever you like

Personally, I like to just call it idiocy.
   10. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: October 14, 2004 at 09:12 PM (#916760)
Well, we need to sweep at fenway. That's pretty much what it's down to.
   11. Women's Lib is Ms.Guided Posted: October 14, 2004 at 09:14 PM (#916765)
'They'd better sweep us'

I won't be shocked if the Red Sox end up like Daniel LaRusso's leg.

Torre: Fear does not exist in this dojo, does it?
ARod: No, Sensei.
Torre : Pain does not exist in this dojo, does it?
Sheffield : No, Sensei.
Torre : Defeat does not exist in this dojo, does it?
Jeter : No, Sensei.
   12. Foster Posted: October 14, 2004 at 09:52 PM (#916814)
May I have ten thousand marbles, please?
   13. WillYoung Posted: October 14, 2004 at 09:52 PM (#916815)
Would we rather the Twins be in our place?

The Twins came a lot closer to knocking out the Yankees than the Red Sox will.
   14. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: October 14, 2004 at 10:15 PM (#916856)
No Who's your daddy line? Lame.
   15. 1k5v3L Posted: October 14, 2004 at 10:19 PM (#916865)
I'd love to see game 6 if only to hear more of the "Who's your daddy" chants in the Bronx. Sweet sisters of mercy! Won't someone please think about the children?

...

GEORGE: You, uh, wanted to see me, Mr. Steinbrenner?

STEINBRENNER: Yes George, I did. Come in, come in. George, the word around the office is that you're a Communist.

GEORGE: C-Communist? I am a Yankee, sir, first and foremost.

STEINBRENNER: You know George, it struck me today me that a Communist pipeline into the vast reservoir of Cuban baseball talent could be the greatest thing ever to happen to this organization.

GEORGE: Sir?

STEINBRENNER: You could be invaluable to this franchise. George, there's a southpaw down there nobody's been able to get a look at; something Rodriguez, I don't really know his name. You get yourself down to Havana right away.

GEORGE: Yes, sir. Yes sir, do my best.

STEINBRENNER: Good, Merry Christmas George. And bring me back some of those cigars in the cedar boxes, you know the ones with the fancy rings? I love those fancy rings. They kind of distract you while you're smoking. The red and yellow are nice. It looks good against the brown of the cigar. The Maduro, I like the Maduro wrapper. The darker the better, that's what I say. Of course, the Claro's good too. That's more of a pale brown, almost like a milky coffee. (George exits) I find the ring size very confusing. They have it in centimeters which I don't really understand that well...
   16. Rally Posted: October 14, 2004 at 11:11 PM (#916975)
who better to oppose them than Boston? Would we rather the Twins be in our place? The Angels?

The Angels have actually beaten the Yankees in the playoffs.
   17. The Original SJ Posted: October 14, 2004 at 11:16 PM (#916981)
The Angels have actually beaten the Yankees in the playoffs.

Also, the Marlins, DBacks, Indians, Dodgers and Reds since divisional play began.
   18. The Original SJ Posted: October 14, 2004 at 11:27 PM (#916991)
The last three times we were down 2-0 in a playoff series (2003 ALDS vs OAK, 1999 ALCS vs NYY, 1999 ALDS vs CLE)

2-0 is not a big deal, the Mets were down 2-0 in 86 and won.
   19. Mattbert Posted: October 14, 2004 at 11:57 PM (#917010)
2-0 is not a big deal, the Mets were down 2-0 in 86 and won.

If that's not a comforting thought, I don't know what is. Thanks, SJ!

Now, as promised earlier today in the Lounge, I must resume shutting the garage door on my head over and over and over again.
   20. The Original SJ Posted: October 15, 2004 at 12:02 AM (#917016)
If that's not a comforting thought, I don't know what is. Thanks, SJ!

I try. You have my assurances that this series is not over. That offense can outscore anyone.
   21. Larry Bowa Posted: October 15, 2004 at 12:13 AM (#917024)
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
   22. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 15, 2004 at 01:37 AM (#917137)
It's still all going to come down to which team displays the most character.
   23. Larry Bowa Posted: October 15, 2004 at 04:09 AM (#917351)
...Or looks the best wearing lipstick; in which case A-Rod and the Yankees will win.
   24. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 15, 2004 at 05:26 AM (#917391)
It's still all going to come down to which team displays the most character.

Well, that's no good. The Jeter plays for the wrong side.
   25. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 15, 2004 at 11:48 AM (#917435)
It's still all going to come down to which team displays the most character.

And which team wants it more.
   26. villageidiom Posted: October 15, 2004 at 01:07 PM (#917463)
Also, the Marlins, DBacks, Indians, Dodgers and Reds since divisional play began.

No love for the Mariners?
   27. OlePerfesser Posted: October 15, 2004 at 02:05 PM (#917513)
There's a good chance the weather will intrude on our obsession this evening. Bummer.

If the game is postponed, there may be a controversy as to whether Pedro should start on short rest on Monday. I think we can all agree that that should not, under any circumstances, happen. Even aside from Pedro's fragility, if you have to risk a start on Lowe, it has to be in Fenway:

Split ERA IP BB SO BAA
Home 4.55 87.0 30 60 .281
Away 6.21 95.2 41 45 .316

But the key to the series is the first few innings of Game 3 (whenever). I'm worried more about our hitters' brains than about Schilling's ankle. Not to take it all away from the MFY's pitchers, but it's like a different bunch of idiots--not happy ones, but real, impatient ones--showed up for this series. We averaged 3.96 pitches per plate appearnce against Anaheim, and it's down to 3.79 in this series. (Yeah, yeah, small sample, no statistical significance test, but I sees what I sees.) Not to get negative about the coaching staff, but why weren't they in guys' faces after so many wasted ABs? Who changed the frickin' game plan?

Anyway, if Game 3 commences with good ABs, hitters' counts, and a comfortable lead going into the middle innings, everything changes. Everybody relaxes, we cruise to a win, it's 2-1, and the cocky MFY fans realize we're back, and the war ain't over.
   28. Women's Lib is Ms.Guided Posted: October 15, 2004 at 02:14 PM (#917517)
We averaged 3.96 pitches per plate appearnce against Anaheim, and it's down to 3.79 in this series.

Getting into a hitter's count is not just a choice a hitter makes. Lieber didn't give them the opportunity and few batters do better with an 0-2 count than they do 0-0.
   29. CONservative governMENt Posted: October 15, 2004 at 02:17 PM (#917519)
the cocky MFY fans realize we're back

Given that some Boston fans were predicting a sweep of their own, I can't imagine the level of gloating that would be going on now if Boston were up 2-0.
   30. bunyon Posted: October 15, 2004 at 02:31 PM (#917545)
It's a sign of just how little rational thought applies in the postseason when Red Sox fans come around saying they aren't dead. No, they aren't dead, but any rational analysis suggests that they face very, very long odds. They might win. But, then, bunting with no outs and a man on first with your two hitter up sometimes leads to big innings.

Keep the faith Sox fans.
   31. tfbg9 Posted: October 15, 2004 at 02:49 PM (#917571)
The Sox were about 7-5 favorites in games 1 and 2, and are now 7-5 once again in game 3. Weird way to get swept.

My prediction for tonight's outcome: NYY 22 BOS 0.
   32. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: October 15, 2004 at 02:58 PM (#917581)
Will the next three games be the worst pitched three games in ALCS history? Lowe? Brown? Dead-Arm Duque? Wakefield?

Arroyo could go either way, but he's definitely the best of THAT lot.
   33. Mikαεl Posted: October 15, 2004 at 03:07 PM (#917596)
So, baseball was dead to me for two days. I'm back. I'll probably end up hoping it remained dead to me. (My girlfriend is a Cardinals fan at the moment)

Not to get negative about the coaching staff, but why weren't they in guys' faces after so many wasted ABs? Who changed the frickin' game plan?

From the games I've watched, the game plan wasn't the problem. The problem is execution. When Lieber is throwing strikes - and he's always throwing strikes - you have to hit him relatively early in the count. The problem, as I saw it, was that the Red Sox consistently made bad contact.
   34. Nasty Nate Posted: October 15, 2004 at 03:11 PM (#917599)
Is there any chance of Francona having Nixon bat 2nd instead of Bellhorn?

What about when Lowe starts game 5, do people think Pokey and/or Doug M..etc will be in the lineup?
   35. Darren Posted: October 15, 2004 at 03:47 PM (#917659)
But, then, bunting with no outs and a man on first with your two hitter up sometimes leads to big innings.

Good thing we weren't looking for a big inning. You kind of lose all credibility when you criticize the Red Sox for bunting too much. Stick with intangibles, character, and leadership--it's harder to prove that those are ridiculous.

Doug M? Who's he? Oh, you mean that guy with the $4M contract that we traded a top prospect for?

On the Lieber "game plan," I think Mikael has it right. Leiber's going to throw a lot of strikes. When he's on, he'll get a lot of outs with them quickly. That's just how it went.

But let's face some facts: Brown could very well throw a great game and shut down the Sox. He's a top pitcher who hasn't been healthy this year. Maybe, like Mussina and Lieber (and unlike Schilling) he's getting healthy at just the right time. If that kind of timing goes the Yanks' way, you just have to tip your hat and....
   36. Bob Loblaw Posted: October 15, 2004 at 03:55 PM (#917674)
Darren, you might want to go back and read bunyon's comment again. He's not making any assertion about the Red Sox bunting habits.

He's saying the Red Sox have about the same odds of winning this series as a team has of getting a big inning after bunting with not outs and and a man on first with the two hitter up. That is to say, long odds.

And he's right, but that doesn't mean it won't happen.
   37. OlePerfesser Posted: October 15, 2004 at 04:02 PM (#917684)
Mikael and Darren: I respect both of your opinions, and we all watched the same games, but that didn't seem to me like the same bunch of idiots with bats in their hands the first couple of games. I'm not sure that issue is best evaluated with stats (given sample size, etc.), so I'll first cite the 'Tek quotes about impatience I posted on another thread, and my observation that a lot of those popups and broken bats were on pitches not really in the zone--or in damned low-percentage spots if they were.

FWIW, Lieber used 11.7 pitches/inning on Wed., and 14.4 during the regular season. Maybe his stuff was way better, or maybe we helped him out. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. (Oh, and Darren: why bother with the trolls?)
   38. Mikαεl Posted: October 15, 2004 at 04:05 PM (#917691)
Quick log5 has the Yankees about 4-to-1 to win the ALCS.

Seems about right. 20% chance means you're a big dog, but crazier stuff happens every day.
   39. OlePerfesser Posted: October 15, 2004 at 04:22 PM (#917729)
Here's another change in mental approach that will be helpful: Arroyo's gonna bust 'em inside.

The Yankees love to dive in. I want to throttle Jeter every time he does that "lean and step" act with pitches on the outside corner. But it does get him the occasional call, and they do drive those outside pitches.

In recognition of this fact Pedro and 'Tek went to extraordinary lengths not to tip location on Wed. But the bald fact is it's just harder (and maybe impossible) to pitch inside successfully, and maybe hit some guys, in that environment. That, too, will now change.
   40. Schilling's Sprained Ankiel Posted: October 15, 2004 at 04:29 PM (#917749)
Yeah - those extraordinary lengths were really pissing McCarver off, which is why I was in favor of them.
Arroyo will be good. I just hope the Yanks aren't better.
DB
   41. Larry Bowa Posted: October 15, 2004 at 04:30 PM (#917754)
Fellas,

I predict the 2nd batter Arroyo hits tonight will spur a very muddy scrum in front of home plate between Varitek and whoever gets plunked. And it will fire them up and they'll at least get it to a Game 6 back in NY at which point I think anything's possible.

Unless the dugouts are flooded, I'm guessing they play tonight. Fox will make them, because, as we all know, Fox is MLB's Daddy.

Your pal,
Larry
   42. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 15, 2004 at 04:59 PM (#917813)
Is there any chance of Francona having Nixon bat 2nd instead of Bellhorn?

Why would you do that? Just because Bellhorn has a small sample size of struggling this postseason?
   43. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: October 15, 2004 at 05:00 PM (#917814)
On another note, I have a CS assignment due at midnight tonight that I have to work on, so I'd love for this game to be postponed.
   44. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: October 15, 2004 at 05:03 PM (#917822)
If the game is postponed, there may be a controversy as to whether Pedro should start on short rest on Monday.

Er, Monday would be normal rest. Game Six is long rest.
   45. Women's Lib is Ms.Guided Posted: October 15, 2004 at 05:20 PM (#917856)
Just because Bellhorn has a small sample size of struggling this postseason?

Eric Van has established that Bellhorn is a much better hitter with men on base (which is why his k's are less of a problem). So Damon's struggles are killing two lineup spots.
   46. Darren Posted: October 15, 2004 at 05:20 PM (#917857)
Darren, you might want to go back and read bunyon's comment again. He's not making any assertion about the Red Sox bunting habits.

I thought he was both deriding of the choice to bunt Bellhorn and the Sox chances.
   47. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past Posted: October 15, 2004 at 05:35 PM (#917891)
No love for the Mariners?

Who came back from a 2-0 deficit to win, and that was only a five game series (1995 DS).
   48. Nasty Nate Posted: October 15, 2004 at 05:37 PM (#917896)
I just saw Brian Cashman on my lunch break. He was at a food court in line at Sbarro's. I said "Are you Brian Cashman?" He said "Yes. How are you?" I said "OK" and that was it. I was tempted to wish him absolute professional failure, but I left him in peace.

As far as Nixon, I would like to see him bat 2nd because I think he's a better overall hitter, and the Yankees have no neutralizing lefty. I would have favored this during the season, except Nixon was out of comission or recovering.
   49. Darren Posted: October 15, 2004 at 05:56 PM (#917934)
Are you sure it wasn't Beetlejuice?

BTW, great banter there, Nate. Ranks up there with mine when I met Kenny Mayne "I like the show TV you are on I am a fan of that show and the funny talk you make is good."
   50. Women's Lib is Ms.Guided Posted: October 15, 2004 at 05:58 PM (#917940)
I was tempted to wish him absolute professional failure, but I left him in peace.

You exercised wise restraint. Cashman looks mild but he's wiry strong. And wily, like his old man.
   51. Nasty Nate Posted: October 15, 2004 at 06:09 PM (#917966)
He was shorter than I expected. He did have the same nervous hang-dog look as on TV.
   52. CONservative governMENt Posted: October 15, 2004 at 06:10 PM (#917973)
Any word on whether the Red Sox players are going to spell out B-R-O-W-N on the backs of their jackets for this game? They won last year doing it to Ted Lilly and the crowd seemed to love it.
   53. GGC Posted: October 15, 2004 at 06:39 PM (#918033)
I saw Brian Daubach in the the men's room at Pizzeria Uno's near Fenway at lunchtime the day that this game was played. I wished him luck and he hit the GWRBI off Benitez in the ninth.
   54. Mikαεl Posted: October 15, 2004 at 06:40 PM (#918036)
Eric Van has established that Bellhorn is a much better hitter with men on base (which is why his k's are less of a problem). So Damon's struggles are killing two lineup spots.

Eric Van has established that Bellhorn hit much better this year with men on base.

It's not necessarily predictive, and I don't see why it would be.
   55. Padgett Posted: October 15, 2004 at 07:28 PM (#918125)
Any word on whether the Red Sox players are going to spell out B-R-O-W-N on the backs of their jackets for this game? They won last year doing it to Ted Lilly and the crowd seemed to love it.

It was also incredibly bush league, as many pointed out. It also had no effect whatsoever on Lilly.
   56. AndyM Posted: October 15, 2004 at 08:46 PM (#918276)
I predict the 2nd batter Arroyo hits tonight will spur a very muddy scrum in front of home plate between Varitek and whoever gets plunked. And it will fire them up and they'll at least get it to a Game 6 back in NY at which point I think anything's possible.

Sounds like a G.W. Bush debate strategy to me, with about as likely a chance of success. A much more likely outcome will be that a third string Yankee mopup man will come in for one batter, and will break Manny's or Ortiz's wrist in retaliation, given the Red Sox's general level of luck and competence. You might outpitch or outslug the Yanks, but you can't outthink them when your manager's in a permanent state of snooze alarm.
   57. tfbg9 Posted: October 15, 2004 at 08:55 PM (#918287)
"If John Kerry is elected, sheaths that cover tendons in Schilling’s ankle will no longer tear."

-John Edwards
   58. bwright Posted: October 15, 2004 at 10:03 PM (#918355)
"If you were to ask Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a Yankee fan, if she was being the way she was, she would say she was."

- John Kerry
   59. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 16, 2004 at 01:45 AM (#918662)
"If you ask me if I've made any mistakes as a manager, no, I can't think of any. We're doin' just fine. Our boys'll be home in a matter of days now."

- Terry W. Francona
   60. Darren Posted: October 16, 2004 at 04:09 AM (#918774)
Red Sox fans better choose their next manager very carefully. Because terrorists sneaking a sheeth covering a tendon into one of our major pitchers is a great risk with the wrong leader.

--Dick Cheney
   61. Miko Supports Shane's Spam Habit Posted: October 16, 2004 at 09:35 AM (#918894)
It was also incredibly bush league, as many pointed out. It also had no effect whatsoever on Lilly.

Are you kidding? Look what happened when they took the letters off.
   62. bwright Posted: October 16, 2004 at 01:03 PM (#918929)
At first I wanted to start Curt Schilling in game 1 he told me that he'd be good to go. Then Darren was putting so much pressure on me in the primatees, I became the anti start Currt Schilling candidate. Of course if chosen manager of the Red Sox, I would now start Curt Schilling, since I have now defeated Darren in the primatees, but the difference is I would have a plan!!! A plan!!!

-John Kerry
   63. bwright Posted: October 16, 2004 at 01:07 PM (#918930)
The Yankees were the wrong team, wrong place, wrong time. As manager I would never play against a team without the full consent of other MLB teams. I will build a coalition with the Minnesota's and the Baltimore's and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. We'll have a summit, and I'll pass the global test. Then we won't have to bear the burden of beating the Yankees alone. Of course if elected now I will play the Yankees head to head and I will defeat them. Plus I will hunt down and kill players that have caused the Red Sox grief in the past. Plus did I mention a played professional single A ball thirty years ago? Me that's right I played ball.

-John Kerry
   64. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 16, 2004 at 01:22 PM (#918935)
"I have a plan, too, and it's brought us to where we are today. No more questions."

- Terry W. Francona

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