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   1. Darren Posted: September 20, 2005 at 03:46 AM (#1629370)
Since this thread is for venting: I am concerned that the decision to go with Millar/Olerud over Petagine may haunt us. It appears to me that Millar is not likely to be a better hitter, and just can't be a worse fielder. Olerud, due to a hot couple weeks, has an .800+ OPS, but is really more like a .700/.750 guy. We really needed to find out if Petagine was going to put up a .900 OPS this year.
   2. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: September 20, 2005 at 04:38 AM (#1629490)
I have done enough venting. I am so angry right now
   3. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: September 20, 2005 at 06:01 AM (#1629617)
Manager Terry Francona said David Wells was bothered by a sore right knee tonight and that the left-hander might get a cortisone shot before his next scheduled start on Sunday.
Wells wouldn't say the knee limited him. ''I'm not going to make any excuses,'' Wells said. ''I just went out and stunk it up tonight.'' Sep. 20 - 12:51 am et


Fantastic, just fantastic.
   4. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 20, 2005 at 06:28 AM (#1629642)
The Red Sox are still making the playoffs.

You'd think we weren't still in first place with the way some of you are acting.
   5. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: September 20, 2005 at 06:31 AM (#1629646)
The Red Sox are still making the playoffs.

I'll believe it when I see it. The Yankees will not lose more than 2 games before they play us. Bank on it.
   6. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 20, 2005 at 10:30 AM (#1629709)
The Yankees are gonna lose some games. C'mon guys - we know the Yanks always choke in the big ones.

On the other hand, this team has no pitching. Does anyone feel at all confident in Schilling tomorrow? Or, for that matter, any of the starting pitchers other than Wakefield? And even Wakefield will have his share of 5 ER outings.

I miss Pedro.
   7. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 20, 2005 at 10:54 AM (#1629711)
The Olerud/Petagine thing may cost us, but the biggest blunder of the year, and the one that it appears will not be cut short by the end of the year, is the ridiculous Schilling experiment.

Schilling has been .5 wins below replacement level so far, as a starter.

The Sox might well have another win, another game on the Yankees, if they'd put a goddam replacement level pitcher in the goddam rotation. We're talking Jeremi Gonzalez / Lenny Dinardo here.

Management on all levels acceded to Schilling's selfish requests for major league playing time without sufficient rehab. And while those requests were selfish, I have little doubt that they're also very common among ballplayers, and something any management team is used to hearing. The difference is that no one had the balls to tell him no, even though he never pitched well in AAA.

Much more than the Petagine thing, I just get so frickin' man when I think about it. This team will get its 9th start tonight from a man who has never shown that he was physically ready to pitch effectively. It's complete incompetence at all levels.
   8. villageidiom Posted: September 20, 2005 at 12:54 PM (#1629747)
Pass.
   9. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: September 20, 2005 at 01:14 PM (#1629768)
Is Matt Clement of Alexandria Mikael?
   10. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 20, 2005 at 01:32 PM (#1629784)
Yes, GGC.
   11. Josh Posted: September 20, 2005 at 01:51 PM (#1629802)
Pass.

" "

I've never considered myself a good fan b/c I can't worry enough when I'm not watching a game.
   12. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: September 20, 2005 at 01:55 PM (#1629811)
The team just looks very worn down to me. The 30 games in 30 days stretch appears to have taken its toll. Ortiz can't win them all by himself, although Lord knows he's giving it a shot.
   13. Evil Tom Posted: September 20, 2005 at 02:46 PM (#1629915)
I can't blame them for trying to get Schilling ready. They were gambling that he'd get it together and be the staff ace down the stretch and into the playoffs. It had a chance to work it just didn't. What were they going to try instead?
   14. Larry Bowa Posted: September 20, 2005 at 02:46 PM (#1629919)
Die Kevin Millar Die!

If Kevin Millar is playing 1B next year for the Red Sox, Theo Epstein will be called "Ed Wade" by me all ****ing year, because that is how stupid he is about this situation.
   15. Schilling's Sprained Ankiel Posted: September 20, 2005 at 02:51 PM (#1629934)
Last year was fun.
dB
   16. Josh Posted: September 20, 2005 at 02:55 PM (#1629941)
Schilling said in an interview a few days ago that had had (another) eureka moment. Eureka!

So, of course I expect 7 innings, 10 SO, 2 BB, 2 hits, 0 Rs.

Or, 5 innings, 5 SO, 1 BB, 12 hits, 4 Rs.

Whichever.
   17. Evil Tom Posted: September 20, 2005 at 02:55 PM (#1629942)
Die Kevin Millar Die!

If Kevin Millar is playing 1B next year for the Red Sox, Theo Epstein will be called "Ed Wade" by me all ****ing year, because that is how stupid he is about this situation.


Millar and his sub replacement level performance will be gone next year. Probably out of baseball.

Edgar Renteria will still be here and likely further in decline. Why does this guy get a pass?
   18. Larry Bowa Posted: September 20, 2005 at 03:12 PM (#1629968)
The following is the text of an email I sent last night to the Red Sox via their website:


Dear Theo,

FOR GOD'S SAKE DE-ACTIVATE MILLAR! DO NOT LET HIM PLAY! He is KILLING THIS TEAM!!!

Stop clinging to 2004!!! Cut Millar and play Olerud/Petagine.

For god's sake, Theo, we are going to miss the playoffs because you all have a blind spot for Millar's "intangibles."

[sigh]

I thought you guys were different. You're not. Allowing Millar to
continue to play is a move Ed Wade would make. For shame....

Sincerely,
Larry Bowa


And, this is the response I got this morning:


Larry,

Thank you for contacting the 2004 World Series Champion Boston Red Sox! We very much appreciate you taking the time to voice your frustration with our recent play. We recognize that the race for the post season has gotten very close; however, it is our hope and belief we can maintain our lead and find our way into the postseason for the third consecutive season.

We also very much appreciate your concern in regards to Theo's decisions especially as they pertain to Kevin Millar. We recognize your concern in terms of holding on to the memories of 2004; however, we are of the belief Kevin will prove to be a valuable member of our team.

Thank you again for your email and please let us know if we can be of further assistance in the future!

Sincerely,
Alex Gray
2004 World Series Champion Boston Red Sox


[sigh]

[sigh]

[drinks]

[drinks]

They will never get it. Never! Never!

[bangs head on piano keys repeatedly]

[drinks]

[drinks]

[drinks]
   19. Answer Guy Posted: September 20, 2005 at 03:17 PM (#1629979)
The Red Sox are still making the playoffs.

You'd think we weren't still in first place with the way some of you are acting.


We won't be by the end of the week.
   20. Schilling's Sprained Ankiel Posted: September 20, 2005 at 03:30 PM (#1630001)
We won't be by the end of the day.
DB
   21. Scoriano Flitcraft Posted: September 20, 2005 at 03:36 PM (#1630011)
Last year was fun.
dB


That was the fluke. :)

Seriously, neither the Yanks nor the Sox have showed they deserve first place this year. The Yanks have two players with more than 8 wins. Only Moose and Unit will make more than 17 starts. These could be historically unique for a playoff team.

Sox have the home field advantage for the last series of the year. I will be surprised if they don't edge the Yanks with the other Sox and Indidans as the other playoff teams.
   22. Schilling's Sprained Ankiel Posted: September 20, 2005 at 03:45 PM (#1630036)
Scor,
Have you seen them lately? They look like the walking dead, their 7 runs last night notwithstanding (I really think they're worn down from 30 day schedule, as mentioned by #13 supra).

Anyway, I keep expecting the Yankee's "Who is this guy" starters to come back to earth, and they just aren't. Meanwhile, we've got Matt "I'll spot you 7 HR's" Clement and David "Ace" Wells. Tears...
DB
   23. Joel W Posted: September 20, 2005 at 03:46 PM (#1630042)
D-Day: Seasons over, man. Crosby dropped the big one.
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Blue Jays pulled w/i .5 games? Hell no!
Otter: Blue Jays?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
[thinks hard]
Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
[runs out, alone; then returns]
Bluto: What the #### happened to the Sox fans I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might lose the division." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Crosby, he's a dead man! Jeter, dead! Mr. Blue Lips....
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: Let's do it.
Bluto: LET'S DO IT!

well, you get the point, I'm just saying it's a little premature to despair. Cleveland could start losing, the Yankees can lose, Aaron Small still needs to pay the devil his due, the White Sox could just completely colapse, or maybe, you know, the Red Sox will win some games.
   24. Toby Posted: September 20, 2005 at 04:18 PM (#1630110)
Two words:

Cowboy Up!
   25. Scoriano Flitcraft Posted: September 20, 2005 at 04:18 PM (#1630111)
No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.

Well, the idiots are just the bunch to do ths. Have they tried the pre-game drinking ritual yet? And, good job, JoelW.

Re: Millar maybe he can decide the US is too dangerous and move to Japan next year.
   26. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: September 20, 2005 at 04:25 PM (#1630128)
I'm just not that nervous yet. While I do see the problems the Red Sox are having, a few things are comforting.

1) The Sox are still in the lead, tenuous as it may be.

2) They play the majority of their remaining games at home, where they have been very good.

3) The Yankees aren't a juggernaut this year. However crappy the Sox could play, the Yankees have the ability to be equally crappy or worse.

4) This is still the best offense in baseball. Any game is winable when you can consistently put up 6+ runs most nights. BTW, this is something the Yankee offense cannot seem to do.

5) I think a 7-5 record for the last 12 games will be enough. That's 3-2 on the road against TB and Baltimore, and 4-3 against the Blue Jays and Yanks at home. At 7-5, the Yankees would have to play 8-5 to catch us and 9-4 to pass us. I haven't seen enough pitching or offense from NY to believe they can go nearly two weeks with only 4 losses.

Let's not pull out the cyanide tablets yet.
   27. Josh Posted: September 20, 2005 at 04:39 PM (#1630151)
I haven't seen enough pitching or offense from NY to believe they can go nearly two weeks with only 4 losses.

I agree with your overall point, but over the last two weeks they have only 4 losses :D
   28. 1k5v3L Posted: September 20, 2005 at 04:40 PM (#1630154)
Last 30 days stats, pitching, AL only

Runs scored, last 30 days, AL only

The Yankees have had a slight edge in ERA (but it's too close) and have had a slight edge in scoring. I suppose the most meaningful stat is that they've gone 19-9 in that span, while the Sox have gone 17-12. The game the Yankees have on hand is against Baltimore, so you really have to give that to them.

I won't be shocked if the Yankees arrive at Fenway with one game edge over the Sox, forcing Boston to win 2 out of three just to tie it up for first.
   29. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: September 20, 2005 at 04:45 PM (#1630162)
I agree with your overall point, but over the last two weeks they have only 4 losses :D

Well, that means they would have to go something like 17-8 over their last 25 games. If the Yankees can manage that, maybe they deserve to win.
   30. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: September 20, 2005 at 04:54 PM (#1630191)
IRONCHEF ANGRY

IRONCHEF SMASH
   31. Toby Posted: September 20, 2005 at 04:56 PM (#1630195)
Schilling: I had another "uric", ah, "moment".
   32. Hurdle's Heroes (SuperBaes) Posted: September 20, 2005 at 05:03 PM (#1630212)
Can we look at this objectively for a second? The Yankees are running out DFA'ed guys like Embree and Bellhorn and everyone here is arguing that Roberto Petagine/John Olerud should play. Is it still 1995?
   33. 1k5v3L Posted: September 20, 2005 at 05:17 PM (#1630239)
The problem for the Sox, as I see it, is that some of their crucial guys are falling to injuries right now, or are slumping, or both. On the other hand, the Yankees are starting to get some of their guys back from the DL. Wright, Wang, Moose pretty soon. And the Yankees are getting production from more than one hitter in their lineup; the Sox are the "Big Papi and The Replacements" show right now.
   34. Larry Bowa Posted: September 20, 2005 at 05:28 PM (#1630260)
Actually, I would start Big Papi and The Replacements over Millar/Varitek/3B/RF right now. At the very least, I'd like to sign Tommy Stinson so he could smash a bottle of Jack Daniels over Millar's head and DL him. Not sure if Westerberg can hit LHP, but I'd give him a chance, and Chris Mars could ably start at C.

By all means, Theo, go sign The Replacements.
   35. Joel W Posted: September 20, 2005 at 05:30 PM (#1630266)
Levski, it's not as though the Sox hitters can't change. Moreover, when Small, Wang, and Wright prove to me that they're actually good pitchers, I'll fear them. As far as I'm concerned, Aaron Small's next start is a bad thing for the Yankees, not a good thing, same with Jarred Wright. Mussina won't be sharp, etc.

I'm not saying everything is hunky-doory for us Sox fans, but lets remember that the Yankee lineup has been good lately, not faltering. Now if only Rivera could become the Rivera of October 2004 to April 7th 2005 we'd be set.
   36. Answer Guy Posted: September 20, 2005 at 05:33 PM (#1630271)
At the very least, I'd like to sign Tommy Stinson so he could smash a bottle of Jack Daniels over Millar's head and DL him. Not sure if Westerberg can hit LHP, but I'd give him a chance, and Chris Mars could ably start at C.

Wouldn't Axl Rose sue the Red Sox if they tried to sign Tommy Stinson? Or maybe they just give Axl a shot at middle relief or something.
   37. RobertMachemer Posted: September 20, 2005 at 05:38 PM (#1630287)
Seriously, neither the Yanks nor the Sox have showed they deserve first place this year.

In a sport in which the Padres may lose more than they win and yet still make the playoffs, I think it's safe to say that one of the Yankees and Red Sox deserves first place this year.

I mean, come on, be serious. The Red Sox and Yankees have, for all of their "inconsistency," both been among the top teams in the league. Which means that other teams are simply worse, whether more or less consistent. Which means that the Red Sox and Yankees are deserving of playoff spots (depending on how they finish relative to other teams in the league).

The postseason isn't an invitational and teams don't get in for style points.
   38. Toby Posted: September 20, 2005 at 07:06 PM (#1630458)
Remember when the Yanks took 2 of 3 from us in the opening series of the season but we got to Rivera twice, and I remarked that there's nothing quite like winning a series 1 game to 2?

Good times, good times.
   39. Joel W Posted: September 20, 2005 at 08:01 PM (#1630540)
Oh, since I've played the optimist in this thread, I figured I'd vent a bit:

If Hansen can pitch like he did last night, and scouts said he was major league ready, why wasn't he up from day 1 at least in mop up to see if he could compete, we had a lot more junk on the roster, why not experiment? Same with Sanchez and Lester mid-season. Especially as DL replacements where their clocks would not have started. When your pen stinks, and you don't go and acquire guys, experiment a bit, it won't hurt that much.

Millar needs to be chained to first base. Let 2nd baseman f'ing get to balls they're supposed to get to.

Insert Petagine complaints here.

Varitek needs to sit more, he has no batspeed. When we have no days off, put Mirabelli in to catch once and awhile.
   40. Toby Posted: September 20, 2005 at 08:18 PM (#1630576)
wasn't Hansen originally shut down with a dead arm, and not available?
   41. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2005 at 08:22 PM (#1630592)
I admit I get very annoyed here and there as the games are happening, and that I like to see 'em win, but I'm able to take it or leave it this year. It's been a weird season, but an OK one. Lotta injuries to key guys.

I was so tense all day before Game 7 2004 ALCS that I collapsed on my bed from some sort of nervous exhaustion and slept for a couple of hours before the first pitch. Then I spent the entire contest pacing back and forth like a caged animal, screaming at my TV. So this year's a cakewalk for me.

I can't stand Wells. He's the only guy I personally dislike.
   42. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2005 at 08:24 PM (#1630596)
#41-Yep. After about, what, 10 IP in AA?
   43. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 20, 2005 at 08:43 PM (#1630628)
Millar needs to be chained to first base.

If by "first base" you mean "the bench", then I agree?
   44. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 20, 2005 at 08:44 PM (#1630630)
Uh...that wasn't meant to be a question mark. I'm not Ron Burgundy.
   45. Joel W Posted: September 20, 2005 at 08:44 PM (#1630633)
I know he was shut down w/ dead arm, but they didn't know that would happen. My point is simply that the bulpen stunk and they didn't try any of the young players in the pen. Right after they signed Hansen, everybody was talking about how he had major league stuff. Why not just find out, given that the bulpen stunk? Why not give Sanchez or Lester a shot? Etc. etc.
   46. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2005 at 08:52 PM (#1630644)
I suppose the short answer is that they didn't want to risk screwing up his head if he failed. That's how I saw it anyway.
   47. Joel W Posted: September 20, 2005 at 08:59 PM (#1630660)
how about: Given Millar is going to play then he ought to be chained to a radius around first base so that he doesn't stray into 2b territory.
   48. Josh Posted: September 20, 2005 at 09:02 PM (#1630669)
so that he doesn't stray into 2b territory.

Or the OF. My g0d, keep him out of the OF!
   49. chris p Posted: September 20, 2005 at 10:52 PM (#1630901)
i say millar should platoon with wally the green monster next year.
   50. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 21, 2005 at 02:55 AM (#1631687)
Offense cures all.
   51. Joel W Posted: September 21, 2005 at 04:18 AM (#1631843)
I think the guys listened to my bluto blutarski pep-talk.
   52. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: September 21, 2005 at 05:15 AM (#1631876)
Actually, I would start Big Papi and The Replacements over Millar/Varitek/3B/RF right now. At the very least, I'd like to sign Tommy Stinson so he could smash a bottle of Jack Daniels over Millar's head and DL him. Not sure if Westerberg can hit LHP, but I'd give him a chance, and Chris Mars could ably start at C.

By all means, Theo, go sign The Replacements.


Theo's favourite album must be "Let it Be"
   53. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: September 21, 2005 at 07:55 AM (#1632023)
Moreover, when Small, Wang

More evidence Primer needs Bangkok9 back.
   54. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 21, 2005 at 10:20 AM (#1632032)

Wouldn't Axl Rose sue the Red Sox if they tried to sign Tommy Stinson? Or maybe they just give Axl a shot at middle relief or something.


A shot of heroin would probably do the trick, as well.

Actually, I would start Big Papi and The Replacements over Millar/Varitek/3B/RF right now. At the very least, I'd like to sign Tommy Stinson so he could smash a bottle of Jack Daniels over Millar's head and DL him. Not sure if Westerberg can hit LHP, but I'd give him a chance, and Chris Mars could ably start at C.

What about Slim Dunlap, the replacement-level replacement?
   55. Toby Posted: September 21, 2005 at 07:29 PM (#1632902)
Another day spent staring into the abyss of a half-game lead.
   56. nickm Posted: September 21, 2005 at 08:10 PM (#1633004)
Where are the game chatters?...
   57. The Polish Sausage Racer Posted: September 21, 2005 at 09:04 PM (#1633150)
I think the critical factor is how the Indians react to last night's heartbreaker. If they lose tonight to the Other Sox, they are done and likely will crater, which means at worst we're in great shape for the Wild Card. If they come back and beat the Other Sox' heads to pulps, then who knows?
   58. tfbg9 Posted: September 22, 2005 at 02:50 AM (#1634373)
I blame CHB.
   59. Answer Guy Posted: September 22, 2005 at 03:34 AM (#1634431)
They're dropping 2 of 3 to Baltimore, probably winning 2 at home against Toronto, and losing 2 of 3 to the Yankees. That will be enough to get them into the playoffs - if they have tickets.
   60. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: September 22, 2005 at 04:24 AM (#1634460)
I think the critical factor is how the Indians react to last night's heartbreaker.

They reacted pretty well
   61. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 22, 2005 at 07:23 AM (#1634634)
They're dropping 2 of 3 to Baltimore, probably winning 2 at home against Toronto, and losing 2 of 3 to the Yankees. That will be enough to get them into the playoffs - if they have tickets.

You crazy, man.

Sox win 6 or 7 of the last 10 and that's good enough for the postseason.
   62. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 22, 2005 at 07:25 AM (#1634635)
Today is their first day off in a lonnnnnnnnng time (August 22 was the last one). Hopefully they use it well.
   63. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: September 22, 2005 at 09:11 AM (#1634688)
Sox win 6 or 7 of the last 10 and that's good enough for the postseason.

In what way??

Yankees can't stop losing and neither can Cleveland.

Chicago are far enough ahead unless Minnesota sweep them (that aint gonna happen as the Twins suck)
   64. Answer Guy Posted: September 22, 2005 at 12:05 PM (#1634738)
You crazy, man.

I dunno. When it comes to road series, they've already found ways to drop 2 of 3 to KC, Detroit, and Tampa Bay in the last month for crying out loud. The Orioles aren't really any worse than any of those teams.
   65. villageidiom Posted: September 22, 2005 at 12:58 PM (#1634769)
Right now the Yankees are at home against a bad team, and the Red Sox are on the road where they're mediocre. Next week the roles reverse.

Yankees: .649 win % at home, .514 on road
Orioles: .473 win % at home, .455 on road
Toronto: .519 win % at home, .459 on road
Red Sox: .676 win % at home, .487 on road

Based on all of the above, and rounding to the nearest win in each series, I get:
Games
Through      NYY wins      Bos wins    NYY lead
-------      --------      --------    --------
 
9/21           88            88         0.5
 9
/22           89            88         1.0
 9
/25           91            90         1.0
 9
/29           93            93          -
 
10/2           94            95        -1.0 

What does all this mean? Well, it doesn't mean jack; the Red Sox need to win some games.

But as of now that last weekend looks very interesting.
   66. tfbg9 Posted: September 22, 2005 at 02:58 PM (#1634901)
From BP:

MFY playoff odds: 61.43043%, Sox playoff odds: 50.91414%.

We might need that last .91414% guys.


Hyzdu irritates.
   67. 1k5v3L Posted: September 22, 2005 at 03:39 PM (#1634967)
I figure bad Moose gets rockyd today by the O's...

Then 10 games will decide the AL East. Sweet...
   68. karlmagnus Posted: September 22, 2005 at 03:57 PM (#1635000)
Sox management have just nominated Timlin for the DHL Award for relievers. Are they watching the same game as the rest of us?

I think 50.91%'s way too high, in reality it's more like 20% the way the Yanks and Indians are currently playing, and the way Sox pitching has disintegrated. With 2 competitors, both now ahead of us, anything less than 7-3 won't do it, and we may need 8-2.

I'd be very optimistic indeed for 2006, except that I've a nasty suspicion Theo is Bourbon in his inability to learn from mistakes. The team needs to get much younger, but if Theo loses Manny, loses Damon, keeps Renteria (who appears to be aging 5 years early -- are we SURE of his birth date)and picks up some mid-30s deadwood in a tight market, the roster will be too tight for new players to get a look in, as it has been this year.

I'd keep Mueller, and make Youkilis play 1B in platoon with one but not both of Olerud and Petagine, plus possibly give Mueller the odd day off. Mueller seems cheap for what we get out of him. However, the fewer outside pickups, the better -- they'll block the way for youth.
   69. Rafael Bellylard: Built like a Panda. Posted: September 22, 2005 at 04:24 PM (#1635045)
I was at the Sox-TB game Wednesday night. Hang this loss on Tito.

In his best Grady imitation, he went with Wakefield an inning to long, then didn't have anyone warming up behind Timlin until the score was 7-4.

Wakefield's pitches were 70% low/in the dirt in the 7th. He sorta looked like he was so tired he couldn't reach the plate anymore. Yes, he was striking out people, but that had to do ore with the batters swinging at bad pitches than anything else (I believe two of the strikeouts were on balls where Mirabelli either tagged the batter or threw to 1st). I kept watching the bullpen to see who was going to relieve him, and the answer was "nobody".

Sure enough, Wakefield came out for the 8th, and once again, no one was warming in the bullpen, not even with soft-toss. Finally, once Crawford came up, they started warming up Timlin. Only Timlin. No DelCarmen, Li'l Papi or Hansen, just Timlin. Crawford swung at a bad 3-1 pitch and grounded into a DP.

I looked at the bullpen and the coach signaled to the dugout that Timlin was ready, but Tito decided to let Wakefield pitch to one more batter. Phooey.

In came Timlin, who just didn't have it. I don't blame him; those nights happen. But, once again, no one was warming up behind him until the last batter made an out.

Tito, you had an off-day coming on Thursday, and you have about 47 people sitting around in the bullpen. Wasn't this the perfect time to go ahead and use a few people, get situational matchups working in your favor?

If this had been a playoff game, you be getting your hide flayed on national TV.
   70. The Polish Sausage Racer Posted: September 22, 2005 at 04:40 PM (#1635075)
The pitching is just depressing. Wells and Clement need to get out of their funk, or this season is over.
   71. Larry Bowa Posted: September 22, 2005 at 04:56 PM (#1635133)
Yes. To all of it.

If the Yankees win tonight, I just can't see the Red Sox going into the last 3 games even tied. It is far more likely they'd be 1 or 2 games back with 3 to play.

Lost, of course, in all of this is the fact that it IS possible the White Sox could collapse so completely that the Red Sox going 7-3 could force a playoff for the WC with them... but that would require the Pale Hose to go 4-8. I mean, it COULD happen, but is unlikely.

Where would a WC playoff game be played if it's between the White Sox and Red Sox? Or Indians and Red Sox?
   72. Joel W Posted: September 22, 2005 at 05:19 PM (#1635181)
Ok, i couldn't bring myself to even read this page till now. But "how the Yankees and Indians are playing right now?" They could easily turn around and lose 3 in a row. This is baseball, and playing well right now means that your team is the same team it's been and it's just playing w/i its variance.

Remember last year when the Red Sox piddled until August and then got really hot? Or when the Red Sox lost 3 straight playoff games and then won 8 straight?

Cleveland gets to play Kansas City, which is awful. And depressing, but even if the Yankees win tonight, it's one game, not 3. And the Red Sox and their crappy crappy bulpen could go out and sweep Baltimore and Toronto...it's just silly to think that how a team has been playing is indicative of how it will play outside of what information that play contributes to your knowledge of the overall strength of the team.

If the Sox take 2 out of 3 in Baltimore, i'm pretty confident in them. They're just a different team at home as VI pointed out.

So I'm going to quit my woe-is-meisms with this team. The pen sucks, they'd played for a lot of days in a row, Damon's hurt, etc. etc. I know it all, but the Yankees still have that starting rotation, no matter how we think it's performed. And non-Johnson pitchers still ahve to go out there 4 out of every 5 games. And in my heart of rational hearts, I know they're just not that good, that Toronto can hit, and that we're still in this thing.
   73. Fat Al Posted: September 22, 2005 at 05:20 PM (#1635186)
Where would a WC playoff game be played if it's between the White Sox and Red Sox? Or Indians and Red Sox?

I don't know if they flipped those coins. I know that the Yankees would go to Cleveland if the two were tied for the WC. Does that flip transfer within the respective divisions to apply to the Red Sox and/or White Sox? I have no idea.
   74. nickm Posted: September 22, 2005 at 06:01 PM (#1635271)
Then 10 games will decide the AL East. Sweet...

Sox might be down a game or 2 by next Friday morning. That is true, and even likely. But look at this as an opportunity to squash the Yankees, yet again, just like last year. Yes, they would have to take 3 of 4 with an extra game, or to sweep at Fenway, which is going to be very, very difficult, but they have done it last year. The pressure will be on the Yanks, once again, and, potentially, we'll get to enjoy a few of those walk-off doubles of the wall.

The more serious problem in my mind (if one cares about winning the WS, and not barely the Division or the WC) that no one seem to mention so far on this thread is that both teams, win or lose, should be completely exhausted by the morning of October 3 (or 4). The pitching should not have time to be alligned and/or rested for the playoffs. Thus, Cleveland should easily take care of the 'winner' in the very first round of the playoffs.
   75. Sean Forman Posted: September 22, 2005 at 06:13 PM (#1635291)
I'm predicting down by three to start the series in Boston and then four straight to win the division and knock out the Yankees.

It's happened before!
   76. RobertMachemer Posted: September 22, 2005 at 06:19 PM (#1635307)
I agree with Joel W. It's not as if teams don't win a bunch in a row and then revert back to .500 ball all the time. I see no reason to assume that the Yankees are as good as their most recent winning percentage might suggest, and I see no reason to think that the most recent struggles of the Red Sox are more indicative of the team's ability than its overall record.

The Sox are a half game back. There are ten games to play, most of them at home. I for one think the Sox have a great chance to win the division. It may not happen, but I certainly don't see the Yankees as being so significantly better a team as to render the season anywhere close to over.
   77. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 22, 2005 at 06:26 PM (#1635320)
So I'm going to quit my woe-is-meisms with this team.

You're ####### straight. I can't be the only damn optimist here.
   78. Vin Middle Posted: September 22, 2005 at 06:46 PM (#1635342)
The pitching should not have time to be aligned and/or rested for the playoffs. Thus, Cleveland should easily take care of the 'winner' in the very first round of the playoffs.


Is this really that big of a deal? First of all, the Sox basically have all #3/#4 starters in their rotation anyway, so lining them up really doesnt get much. Also, has a set rotation really helped teams since the advent of the wild-card round?
   79. chris p Posted: September 22, 2005 at 06:47 PM (#1635346)
I'm predicting whoever wins the division gets swept by cleveland.
   80. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 22, 2005 at 06:56 PM (#1635358)
Meh. Boston swept Cleveland in Cleveland earlier this year and did it against Sabathia, Millwood, and Lee.
   81. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 22, 2005 at 07:05 PM (#1635370)
Oh yeah, Foulke is apparently down for the season, so there's no chance of a screw-up by putting him on the postseason roster.
   82. karlmagnus Posted: September 22, 2005 at 08:10 PM (#1635482)
Given the overall mediocrity of Sox starters, the ideal playoff pitching rotation would be to have the first 2 games pitched by Hansen and Papelbon, whiom the oppo wouldn't have seen or scouted. Let's have the "rookie effect" working in our favor for once.
   83. tfbg9 Posted: September 22, 2005 at 08:50 PM (#1635564)
#82 It's my fault. I'm sorry.
   84. Joel W Posted: September 22, 2005 at 09:00 PM (#1635593)
BTW, I think we need to put on our Johan fanboy caps tonight, and in general be twins fans as much as anything. If the White Sox drop a few, while we win a few, and the whole thing become 3 teams for 4 spots, we're a lot better off. Given that the Indians are playing the Royals, we don't have much help there, but we could see a few white sox losses. Right now we're 3.5 back of the White Sox, and a game back of the Indians, if we can be tied or within 1 game of the Indians going into the Yankees series and just a couple back of the White Sox, we'd be in pretty good shape I think regardless of the Yankees.
   85. 1k5v3L Posted: September 22, 2005 at 09:45 PM (#1635654)
I thought that Foulke said something to the effect that, if BOS doesn't put him on the postseason roster, he won't be returning to BOS next year. So, which one is it? Of course, since there's a very good chance the Sox won't have to fill out a postseason roster, this may be a moot point.
   86. Josh Posted: September 22, 2005 at 09:48 PM (#1635657)
So, which one is it?

He is having his right knee cut into a ripped apart by a doctor.

He is done for the year.
   87. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: September 22, 2005 at 10:45 PM (#1635768)
Given the overall mediocrity of Sox starters, the ideal playoff pitching rotation would be to have the first 2 games pitched by Hansen and Papelbon, whiom the oppo wouldn't have seen or scouted.

Err, I don't think having Hansen start a game is such a good idea.
   88. Darren Posted: September 23, 2005 at 02:21 AM (#1636488)
Hey good news. The Orioles once again ALMOST beat the Yanks! Yippee for them! Almost as exciting as the Sox outscoring the DRays and losing 2 of 3! Whoopppeee!!!
   89. Bob Loblaw Posted: September 23, 2005 at 04:41 AM (#1636854)
There are some good things to take out of that Yankees/Orioles series.

First, the Orioles suffered a four-game sweep, so maybe they're bad enough that the Red Sox can sweep them too.

Second, the Yankees really didn't play all that well and could easily have lost one or two of them, so maybe they won't be unbeatable down the stretch.

And three, the White Sox aren't winning any more games this year, so it doesn't matter anyway.
   90. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 23, 2005 at 11:00 AM (#1637093)
Hey, who knows, maybe we'll win a game soon.

I'm wicked optimistic.
   91. Joel W Posted: September 23, 2005 at 01:18 PM (#1637171)
I actually think the best thing from last night was the Chicago loss. Given that Chicago and Celeveland still have to play each other, it seems like the Sox just have to win 7 of 10 to make the playoffs.

Since KC stinks, Detroit, Tampa Bay, and Minesotta are good friends. I suppose KC is too, but as I said, they stink.
   92. Joel W Posted: September 23, 2005 at 02:01 PM (#1637228)
Quick question, does anybody have an idea of what the chances would be that all 4 teams ended up w/ the same record?
   93. 1k5v3L Posted: September 23, 2005 at 02:22 PM (#1637258)
JoelW, they are 7.458%.
   94. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: September 23, 2005 at 03:04 PM (#1637362)
That would be awesome! A little double elimination tournament to get into the playoffs. Yankees vs. Red Sox to decide the East, Indians vs. White Sox to decide the central, and then one game between the losers to decide the wild card. Hell, do it all in one day on one neutral field, game one at noon, Game 2 at 5, game 3 at 9.
   95. Nasty Nate Posted: September 23, 2005 at 03:44 PM (#1637451)
I have a gut feeling that if they can make it this last week and stay within 1-2 of NY, they will win it at home. I just think they can beat the yankees at home with it all on the line, probably a sweep.

Let me tell you its weird watching the end of this season from NJ, not Boston. Although this past week I'm glad that I haven't had NESN.

And some positive reminders: In '03 & '04 playoff games that they needed to win or be eliminated, the Sox had 8 wins and 1 loss. In games in which they could clinch the series, they were 4-1.
   96. Kevin Sweet Child Romine (aco) Posted: September 23, 2005 at 04:24 PM (#1637542)
Did anyone read CHB's column today? It's presented as if it's a mea culpa for his June 26 colmun (Easy call: Race is a runaway), but it quickly devolves into "The Sox have been put on this earth to make us suffer" (that's an actual quote) and ultimately becomes an anti-Manny diatribe.

God, what a douche.
   97. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: September 23, 2005 at 04:31 PM (#1637555)
Quick question, does anybody have an idea of what the chances would be that all 4 teams ended up w/ the same record?

Dunno, but I do remember waking up one morning and seeing this in the paper:

League Standings at the end of 9/6/1967

AL W L GB PCT
BOS 79 62 - .560
DET 79 62 - .560
MIN 78 61 - .561
CHW 78 61 - .561

Which wound up with the White Sox folding (of course) but with the other three teams all having a chance to win the pennant on the last day of the season.
   98. villageidiom Posted: September 23, 2005 at 04:34 PM (#1637562)
CHB has been put on this earth to make us suffer.
   99. Vance Law Revue Posted: September 25, 2005 at 02:58 AM (#1640909)
With the division tied, all the Sox have to do is go 18-9 over the last 27, and the World Series is theirs!

In all likelyhood, 16-11 will be enough to get the job done.

Either way, the playoffs start tomorrow as far as I'm concerned.
   100. chris p Posted: September 25, 2005 at 03:21 AM (#1640921)
i think they could play as many as 29 more games.
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