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   1. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 11, 2009 at 10:34 PM (#3348962)
One thing I failed to notice while watching the game - it's difficult, given the rules of baseball, to hit a walk-off in your opponent's park. But, you know, you get the idea.
   2. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 11, 2009 at 10:43 PM (#3348968)
Darren:

Of all the team blogs Sox Therapy is by far the most consistently interesting.

Thank you
   3. Marcel Posted: October 11, 2009 at 10:54 PM (#3348970)
I didn't really notice during the game, was Martinez calling all of those fastballs or was Papelbon shaking him off?
   4. Darren Posted: October 11, 2009 at 10:57 PM (#3348972)
Um, coming from you, Harveys, that means a lot. Thanks.
   5. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: October 11, 2009 at 11:20 PM (#3348985)
Time to blow the dust off my 2004 and 2007 World Series DVD's.

Congratulations, Angels. Now go beat the MFY.
   6. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: October 11, 2009 at 11:35 PM (#3348992)
Does MCoA sit in section 15 at Fenway? "Well that sucked" were my first words to my father when I regained the ability to speak several minutes after the pop up.

I agree there wasn't much to complain about. You get to the ninth, up 6-4, your closer (who is excellent) in the game, it's like the Twin/Yankee game the other night. Things are set up for ya', sometimes the other guy is just better.

For those of you who watched on TV was Abreu's "double" in the 8th a tough play for Youk? It seemed to me that he sort of played it into a difficult play.

And seconded on ST. You guys do a great job. My only wish would be more ST which is the highest compliment I can give.
   7. Darren Posted: October 11, 2009 at 11:42 PM (#3348994)
I'm sorry, but ST sucked this year. No content to speak of. Let's not get carried away.
   8. Darren Posted: October 11, 2009 at 11:46 PM (#3348997)
Fangraphs says that Papelbon threw 26 consecutive fastballs.
   9. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: October 11, 2009 at 11:48 PM (#3349000)
Was there some reason, knowable from tv, that Abreu's grounder in the 7th was scored a double? It looked to me like Youkilis got over a little late, positioned himself poorly, and failed to react to a big bounce, letting the ball hit off his glove.
   10. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 12, 2009 at 12:04 AM (#3349014)
Glad I missed it all - though today is a numb feeling to say the least
   11. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: October 12, 2009 at 12:29 AM (#3349027)
Was there some reason, knowable from tv, that Abreu's grounder in the 7th was scored a double?
No way, that was hometown scoring all the way. The best you could say for Youk was a single, giving an E3 letting him move up to second.
   12. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: October 12, 2009 at 01:16 AM (#3349079)
"Well that sucked" were my first words to my father when I regained the ability to speak several minutes after the pop up.


They're the exact words I uttered to my brother on the phone.
   13. WillYoung Posted: October 12, 2009 at 01:16 AM (#3349080)
This post pretty much summed up my feelings after Game 2 the other night. And tonight's game so far. Not really the manager's fault. So many chances to turn things the other way. But whattayagonnado?
   14. Darren Posted: October 12, 2009 at 01:21 AM (#3349092)
This is amazing, those are the same words I used when I finished vacuuming today.
   15. Dan Posted: October 12, 2009 at 02:16 AM (#3349183)
So can we start discussing off-season stuff in this thread? Or are you going to open up a specific thread, Darren?
   16. Textbook Editor Posted: October 12, 2009 at 02:23 AM (#3349208)
Well, yes, that rather did suck.

My son looked up at me after Pedroia popped out and said "Well, they came close, Dad."

I'm disappointed on a lot of levels, but him saying that somehow made me feel better, in that it made me realize that (as far as being a Red Sox fan goes), he'll never be as scarred as I was before 2004. This is a good thing. The optimism of youth is a good thing.

I suspect it won't be too long before the 2007 & 2004 DVDs get broken out. It will be a long winter. Baseball has been a very welcome distraction around here, and now it's gone.

Thanks to all the Therapudians for a fun year in the chatters, and for all the well wishes for my son. Looking forward to the Hot Stove.
   17. JB H Posted: October 12, 2009 at 02:29 AM (#3349223)
Best therapy for a day like today is to dream about the offseason. We're pretty lucky to be fans of a team that makes November-March so entertaining.

Do you guys think Victor + Kelly + Reddick gets Mauer? I don't really think the Sox can afford to trade Buchholz without getting a SP back
   18. 1k5v3L Posted: October 12, 2009 at 02:47 AM (#3349250)
Do you guys think Victor + Kelly + Reddick gets Mauer?
Gets him what? Horny?
   19. Textbook Editor Posted: October 12, 2009 at 02:50 AM (#3349252)
JB H, my dreams of late have been of Mauer in a Red Sox uniform... but it would take an overwhelming offer to get him before next year, especially with the Twins going to Target Field. And overwhelming would start with Buchholz/Bowden/Kelly and probably go from there, including probably VMart. I also have no idea what C's the Twins have in their system, so we might have to include a C in the deal aside from VMart for the future.

But there's only so much gold in the Brinks truck, and I think the Red Sox may back it up for King Felix or Adrian G. I'm OK with it either way, but Mauer would be a huge get, especially since I am 100% certain if he becomes a FA he will wind up a Yankee.
   20. ekogan Posted: October 12, 2009 at 02:51 AM (#3349254)
Do you guys think Victor + Kelly + Reddick gets Mauer?

Mauer isn't going anywhere. The Twins will try to resign him this offseason.

When we're discussing the Red Sox's offseason plans, can we please stick to the free agent market? Whenever a trade proposal is mentioned here, it's invariably slanted toward the Red Sox side and completely unrealistic. "Oh, yeah, we need to trade Buchholz for King Felix, Lars Anderson for Adrian Gonzalez and Jed Lowrie for Jose Reyes, and then we'll be all set"... those kinds of trades are not happening.
   21. Darren Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:00 AM (#3349257)


When we're discussing the Red Sox's offseason plans, can we please stick to the free agent market?


No, that would be no fun.
   22. WillYoung Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:23 AM (#3349278)

Do you guys think Victor + Kelly + Reddick gets Mauer? I don't really think the Sox can afford to trade Buchholz without getting a SP back


#### YOU.
   23. 1k5v3L Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:25 AM (#3349280)
So do tell us, Will, how do you really feel?
   24. robinred Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:30 AM (#3349283)
I don't think Pedroia + Buchholz + VMart gets Mauer. Mauer may leave the Twins; I don't think they will trade him.
   25. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:33 AM (#3349293)
If the Twins don't do everything short of kidnapping his parents to resign Mauer, Target Field should be razed by the fanbase.
   26. Textbook Editor Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:54 AM (#3349316)
...which is why I said the offer would have to be overwhelming.
   27. RobertMachemer Posted: October 12, 2009 at 04:50 AM (#3349369)
If the Twins don't do everything short of kidnapping his parents to resign Mauer, Target Field should be razed by the fanbase.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMX1657H8m0
   28. Tripon Posted: October 12, 2009 at 05:09 AM (#3349389)
Red Sox signs Joe Mauer, Albert Pujols, and Felix Hernadez in the 2011 off season. Declares themselves the Neo Evil Empire.
   29. Something Other Posted: October 12, 2009 at 06:17 AM (#3349448)
"Oh, yeah, we need to trade Buchholz for King Felix, Lars Anderson for Adrian Gonzalez and Jed Lowrie for Jose Reyes, and then we'll be all set"... those kinds of trades are not happening.
Don't be so sure Reyes isn't moving. God knows what Omar will come up with this offseason.
   30. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: October 12, 2009 at 06:58 AM (#3349459)
No way do the Twins trade Mauer - no way. Then again after seeing the way they run the bases, anything is possible...

:)
   31. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: October 12, 2009 at 10:59 AM (#3349484)
If the Twins don't do everything short of kidnapping his parents to resign Mauer, Target Field should be razed by the fanbase.

Amen. I don't want to have to see the Yankees sign Mauer just to keep him off of the Red Sox or Angels. It would be little short of criminal for the Twins to let him get away.
   32. bunyon Posted: October 12, 2009 at 11:53 AM (#3349497)
If the Twins don't do everything short of kidnapping his parents to resign Mauer, Target Field should be razed by the fanbase.

Fargo II.
   33. ekogan Posted: October 12, 2009 at 01:25 PM (#3349564)
Don't be so sure Reyes isn't moving. God knows what Omar will come up with this offseason.

Even if Omar does what kneejerking Mets fans want - blow the team up, Jed Lowrie isn't going to be enough to get Reyes.
   34. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: October 12, 2009 at 02:03 PM (#3349592)
Let's sign John Lackey
   35. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:10 PM (#3349661)
Let's sign John Lackey


Any guesses on what he is going to sign for? With the lack of anyone else available (of his talent) it's going to have to be a rather large offer, no?
   36. Young Blasarius yonder Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:26 PM (#3349678)
Any guesses on what he is going to sign for? With the lack of anyone else available (of his talent) it's going to have to be a rather large offer, no?


My guess is he's going to want an AJ Burnett-type deal. Now whether he gets it is another story, but the free agent market for pitchers this offseason is pretty weak.
   37. Paxton Crawford Ranch Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:40 PM (#3349701)
I bet it's a lot. True ace, number 1 starters (Sabathia and Johan) have been getting ~ $23M a year. Lackey's a notch below that, among guys like Burnett, Peavy and Zambrano, who make $16.5-18.3M a year. Burnett got 5 years at age 32, Millwood 5 years at 31, and Lowe 4 years at 35. Lackey will be 31 all of next year. Based on that, my guess would be 5 years/$90M. More than I'd want my team to spend.

I think the Sox will do what they've done lately and sign a high risk/high reward guy for one year with a bunch of incentives. My prediction: they sign one of Webb (assuming his $8.5M option isn't picked up), Harden, or Bedard.
   38. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:45 PM (#3349709)
Bedard is interesting. The Sox seem to have had good success with preventing arm injuries the last few years. I know the whole shoulder program thing can be a bit of a joke but they kept Penny, Smoltz, Saito, et al healthy (obviously with varying degrees of success) and if they can get Bedard healthy for 22-25 starts a year he could be a steal.

But put me down for Lackey. I've always loved John Lackey and would love to see him in that rotation.
   39. Paxton Crawford Ranch Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:53 PM (#3349718)
But put me down for Lackey. I've always loved John Lackey and would love to see him in that rotation.

If we could get him for something like 4/60 I'd love it, I just think there's enough desperate teams out there that the bidding goes much higher. I'd rather we saved our money for Beckett, Mauer, Felix, Pujols, etc in the offseasons to come.
   40. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:57 PM (#3349725)
The Curse of John Smoltz destroys two teams this year. My kung fu is strong!
   41. Tripon Posted: October 12, 2009 at 03:59 PM (#3349729)
John Smoltz wasn't the Cards problem. Hell, he pitched better than Smoltz.
   42. Robinson Cano Plate Like Home Posted: October 12, 2009 at 04:19 PM (#3349761)
John Smoltz wasn't the Cards problem. Hell, he pitched better than Smoltz.

Which is NOT easy for Smoltz to do, let me tell you.
   43. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: October 12, 2009 at 05:08 PM (#3349849)
I am comfortable in my analysis. My kung fu is strong.
   44. Textbook Editor Posted: October 12, 2009 at 05:19 PM (#3349863)
Backing up the truck for King Felix seems like a play they want to make, based on the trading deadline. Sure, it probably won't happen, but it's the sort of move they prefer to make (as opposed to signing Lackey for 5/$90 or something like that). They do probably need a post-2011 plan for the starting pitching, as I can't see them re-signing Beckett again, and Wakefield surely will be done by then, which leaves (if I'm doing this right):

Lester
Buchholz
Matsusaka
??? (Bowden/Tazawa/Kelly?)
??? (Bowden/Tazawa/Kelly?)

Sure, lots of teams have this problem looking forward 2 years, but the Red Sox always seem to want some amount of cost certainty in their SP's going forward a few years, and King Felix is exactly the guy who (given where he is in his career) they've coveted in the past. To be sure, Buchholz is going in any deal for Felix unless the Mariners lose their minds, but I'm OK with that. Lester/Felix/Beckett for 2010 would be quite wonderful.
   45. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: October 12, 2009 at 05:50 PM (#3349899)
as I can't see them re-signing Beckett again


Why not? And if not the Sox, who would?
   46. Textbook Editor Posted: October 12, 2009 at 05:57 PM (#3349903)
AKA, He'll be 30 at the end of 2010, and could easily command a salary of 4/$60 million on the open market--and probably a lot closer to 4/$72, assuming he's healthy at the end of 2010. I don't see the Red Sox signing any pitcher--even a guy like Beckett--to a deal like that for his age 31-34 seasons. Now if Beckett is willing to go 3/$39 or something like that, maybe they consider it, but I just don't think they want a long-term, high-$ deal for a pitcher in that age range.

Come to think of it, Beckett his an attractive salary for 2010... I'm sure he'd generate interest as well on the trading market. I'm not advocating these things or saying it should happen, just that I hope the Red Sox are considering all possible avenues.
   47. Paxton Crawford Ranch Posted: October 12, 2009 at 06:18 PM (#3349934)
Those numbers are wishful thinking. The idea that he could be had for Oliver Perez money is insane. If Beckett gets to free agency some team will give him at least 5 years, if not 6 or 7. 18M per would be the minimum, with a good chance it creeps closer to Johan/Sabathia dollars, aka 23M per. That's all dependent on how healthy he is next year, so there might be a window this winter for the Sox to extend him for something like 5/90. He was willing to trade maximized dollars for security in 2006, so maybe he will be again.
   48. Textbook Editor Posted: October 12, 2009 at 06:34 PM (#3349954)
Paxton, if that's wishful thinking on my part, then Beckett's as good as gone after 2010. There's no way they sign him for his 31-34 years (or--yikes!--his 31-36 years) at Johan/Sabbathia $. They just won't do it.

I suspect they'll be content to offer arbitration and take the picks for Beckett.
   49. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: October 12, 2009 at 07:21 PM (#3350013)
I'm with Textbook Editor - perhaps I'm too close to the trees here to see the forest, but as somebody who has watched most of Beckett's starts over his time in Boston, I see a guy who is very good, but not the #1 starter for a World Series champion. Of course, he's had one top-notch season with Boston...and in 2007, he was the ace of a World Series champion. He's a great #2, but if you had to win a game, who would you start: Lester, or Beckett? Most people would say Lester, even before considering Lester's advantage in age and health. Beckett may not miss a lot of starts, but he does seem to be "dinged up" a lot. Then, he has trouble throwing his curveball, or reaching his top fastball or something, and we all marvel at how good he is without his "A game"...

He's very good, but if he wants $17 million a year or something, then more power to him. It will not be in Boston.
   50. Paxton Crawford Ranch Posted: October 12, 2009 at 07:24 PM (#3350020)
I'd prefer to see them skip the big money pitchers in their 30s too, and rely on pre free agency pitchers signed for cheap deals through their 20s (like Lester and Beckett). But that's contingent on continuing to develop or acquire young pitchers as good as Lester and Beckett. The Sox farm system has been one of the most productive in the game over the last half decade and I don't think you can plan your team around that continuing. Youkilis, Lester, Pedroia and Papelbon have all been much better major leaguers than the industry (and I suspect the Sox) thought they'd be when they were prospects. When you can afford a $150M payroll, there's no reason not to take some risks and spend some money. The Sox also have a ton of payroll flexibility: only 49M committed for 2011.
   51. dave h Posted: October 12, 2009 at 11:00 PM (#3350244)
Cots has the total Sox payroll at 109 million next year plus arb awards. That covers:
C: Martinez, Varitek
1B: Youkilis
2B: Pedroia
SS: Gonzalez, Lowrie
3B: Lowell
OF: Reddick, Ellsbury, Drew
DH: Ortiz
SP: Lester, Beckett, Buccholz, Matsuzaka
RP: Papelbon, Bard, Ramirez, Tazawa, Delcarmen

Not sure what Okajima's status is. They have options on Wakefield ($4m), Saito ($6m). I have no idea whether Wakefield will be able to pitch. Saito isn't worth $6m to this team.

So the to-do list:
Good bat for 1B/3B
Resign/replace Bay
Fix SS
One starting pitcher plus fliers (or count Tazawa in there, fill out the bullpen)
Convince Varitek he's ready to coach, then backup C

Because of the compensation system, it makes sense to offer Bay arbitration and let him walk. However, there's not much out there to replace him. Similarly, there are no obvious 1B/3B candidates, maybe Nick Johnson? Given the weak FA class, it may make sense to overpay on one-year deals, saving flexibility for 2011.

I'm optimistic on Buccholz and with the emergence of Lester I'd be fine filling out the pitching with a middle-tier starter, which shouldn't be too hard to find.

I'd also offer arb to Wagner. Based on the negotiations when they acquired him, it seems unlikely that Wagner would accept. I would hope they could afford it if he does happen to accept, since it doesn't hurt them down the road. Not sure how much money they really have to spend though. Could it really be just $20 mil including Bay, 1B, a pitcher, or am I missing something?
   52. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: October 15, 2009 at 05:37 PM (#3352983)
When we're discussing the Red Sox's offseason plans, can we please stick to the free agent market? Whenever a trade proposal is mentioned here, it's invariably slanted toward the Red Sox side and completely unrealistic. "Oh, yeah, we need to trade Buchholz for King Felix, Lars Anderson for Adrian Gonzalez and Jed Lowrie for Jose Reyes, and then we'll be all set"... those kinds of trades are not happening.


I had the temerity, over at BP, to opine that the Red Sox should try for Rajai Davis or Nyjer Morgan as a temp CF, moving Ellsbury to left (or trading him to the Nats for Adam Dunn). Regardless of the merit of that idea, the first response I got back was "The other 28 teams don't exist as farm systems for the Red Sox and Yankees."

As if Dunn wasn't on a short contract, and as if Davis and Morgan *weren't* fourth outfielder fodder a year ago. We're not all a collection of airhead homer morons.
   53. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: October 15, 2009 at 06:08 PM (#3353027)
Most trade rumors are pretty asinine. I think Felix, Gonzalez and Halladay can all be had for the right price but the reality is that the right price is going to be pretty bleepin' steep and would almost certainly start with the words "Buchholz and..." where "..." includes at least two more names any semi-serious fan would know.
   54. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: October 15, 2009 at 06:12 PM (#3353032)
It's true that most trade rumors are asinine. However, the people who spread asinine trade rumors are hardly only Red Sox or Yankees fans.

I think you're in my division, Jose. Want to start our own asinine trade rumors?
   55. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: October 15, 2009 at 06:21 PM (#3353045)
Absolutely! Asinine trade rumors are always more interesting than the realistic ones. Who wants to discuss something that makes sense? Throw out something ludicrous and see how many people you can get to justify it, now THAT'S fun!

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