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   1. villageidiom Posted: June 08, 2010 at 12:22 AM (#3552988)
Nah, he only used those two times. Or he's only sorry for those two times. Or... I dunno. Maybe he, Ortiz, and OJ are out looking for the real juicers.
   2. The Original SJ Posted: June 08, 2010 at 03:59 AM (#3553295)
whatever gets you through the night man.
   3. Dale Sams Posted: June 08, 2010 at 04:23 AM (#3553317)
"Is met"?

I heard carping around May 20th on this 'Andy Pettitte' guy you speak of.
   4. tfbg9 Posted: June 08, 2010 at 06:43 PM (#3553835)
I guess I'm the only guy on this board who believed Papi. But I did, and do.
   5. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: June 08, 2010 at 06:54 PM (#3553845)
I guess I'm the only guy on this board Earth who believed Papi. But I did, and do.
FTFY. As it relates to this view, please see #2.
   6. tfbg9 Posted: June 08, 2010 at 07:03 PM (#3553861)
Well, the Commish's office went out of their way to explain-away Ortiz's supposed appearance on the 2003 list.
This is something they did for nobody else.
   7. Mattbert Posted: June 08, 2010 at 07:07 PM (#3553866)
Well, the Commish's office went out of their way to explain-away Ortiz's supposed appearance on the 2003 list.
This is something they did for nobody else.


Butbutbut...GEORGE MITCHELL!!!
   8. Nasty Nate Posted: June 08, 2010 at 07:22 PM (#3553884)
Its hard to take seriously the 'back on the juice!' people. Their timeline gets wacky. Why would Ortiz go 'off the juice' in the first place if he was fooling the drug tests year after year?
   9. tfbg9 Posted: June 08, 2010 at 07:31 PM (#3553889)
Also, Ortiz is kinda fat. Juicer ballplayers aren't fat. Right?
Sort of semi-serious here, but I can't bring to mind any guys who've been
PED-implicated that are, you know, sort of fat-looking.
   10. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: June 08, 2010 at 07:49 PM (#3553900)
Trying to use logic in anyway to identify PED users is pointless. PEDs keep you healthy but Cal Ripken didn't use them of course and PEDs cause little injuries like Canseco and Nomar had but Griffey never used them. PEDs make pitchers throw harder and longer resulting in a home run hitter's era. PEDs make players play at a high level to a late age but Jeter never used them.
   11. AROM Posted: June 08, 2010 at 08:01 PM (#3553911)
Well, the Commish's office went out of their way to explain-away Ortiz's supposed appearance on the 2003 list.
This is something they did for nobody else.


And we know what a bastion of truth the Commissioner's office has always and forever been.

Also, Ortiz is kinda fat. Juicer ballplayers aren't fat. Right?
Sort of semi-serious here, but I can't bring to mind any guys who've been
PED-implicated that are, you know, sort of fat-looking.


Giambino wasn't exactly svelte. He and Ortiz are pretty much the same player. Right down to the slumps that convince their biggest fans they are 100% done, followed by a burst of homers.
   12. tjm1 Posted: June 08, 2010 at 08:02 PM (#3553912)
I guess I'm the only guy on this board who believed Papi. But I did, and do.


I wouldn't say I believe him, but if I were a juror, I'd definitely take his story seriously enough to call it reasonable doubt.
   13. tfbg9 Posted: June 08, 2010 at 08:21 PM (#3553932)
And we know what a bastion of truth the Commissioner's office has always and forever been.


Fine arguement. Why would they lie for Papi but not, say, Arod? The Henry/Selig conspiracy?


Giambino wasn't exactly svelte.


Barrell-chested like Superman, veins popping thru his arms, skinny legs, not fat.
   14. Phil Coorey is a T-Shirt Salesman Posted: June 11, 2010 at 03:10 AM (#3556096)
1 for his last 25,000

Welcome back Papi

Nice loss today as well
   15. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: June 11, 2010 at 03:27 AM (#3556101)
I guess I'm the only guy on this board who believed Papi. But I did, and do.


I believe Ortiz and I'm a Yanks fan. Actually, the Times reporting on that issue did a disservice to Ortiz. But then again, i don't give a #### about PED use.
   16. ptodd Posted: June 14, 2010 at 07:31 AM (#3558534)
Why would Ortiz go 'off the juice' in the first place if he was fooling the drug tests year after year?


Remember those palpitations that scared the heck out of him in 2006? Unless you are in a contract year, there are some very good health reasons not to use PED's.

While MLB does have a testing program, how certain are we that there are no holes in the testing, say perhaps after the 1st month of the season. I dunno. Also, designer steroids that can not be detected are easily affordable by those making 12 million per year.

What made me suspect Papi was not telling the hole truth on his PED use, was his 2005 book that went out of the way to point out he may have ingested steroids in the DR by accident since they were so prevalent. Kind sounded like he was being proactive in setting up an excuse if caught. In hind sight I suspect he knew he tested positive in 2003. Manny, his good friend, was also implicated in 2003, and suspended last year. He was suspended for taking the fertility drug used to mask steroids but he also tested positive for testosterone. They only suspended him for the fertility drug and not the testosterone because Boras planned to contest it (the test has some uncertainty). Boras could not contest the fertility drug because there was a prescription record.

Papi has also be linked to A-Rods ex-trainer, Angel Presinal, who was banned by the MLB and implicated in steroids.

As for Papi saying he used a supplement which caused the 2003 positive result, what was not mentioned was that when players were tested in 2003, they were told there would be a 2nd test in 7 days, and to avoid taking any supplements or drugs that could cause a positive result. If a player tested positive in the first test, and informed them he was taking supplements, and passed the 2nd test, he would not go down as failing the test as the 1st test would be ignored.

As for the argument that Papi looks fat as proof he does not use PED's. Come on. If you look at Papi closely the past 2 seasons, he gets more muscular looking after the 1st month of the season. Last year he looked fat to start the year. This year he lost weight and looked slender in ST, but not so strong. Maybe he just spends more time in the gym once the season starts, I dunno. Also, if you take steroids and don't spend enough time working out, you can get fat or will stay fat. Some players were reported to have used steroids in the 70's to increase durability and recovery time, but did not do strength training out of fear of bulking up, and so they did not look big, let alone have the Jose Cancseco look . Since nobody knows who used and who did not, except for a handful of players who were caught, you really can not say. And remember Manny Alexander getting caught with a car load of steroids and syringes. Manny did not look like your typical steroid user, nor did he hit like one.

I don't care myself, but folks seem so quick to jump on other teams players who use. The evidence suggests Papi may have as well. Can't prove it one way or another, so you can believe what you want.
   17. tfbg9 Posted: June 15, 2010 at 08:38 PM (#3560221)
If a player tested positive in the first test, and informed them he was taking supplements, and passed the 2nd test, he would not go down as failing the test as the 1st test would be ignored.


And for all we know, the "2003 list" is a list of 1st test names, with many supplement-generated false postitives on it. Hell, Baseball as much as said so in Ortiz's case. Again, this is something they did for no other "name." YMMV...

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