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Dialed In — Thursday, August 24, 2006Defense over the last Twenty Years - Part Three, NL OFTop Career Defensive Performances – National League Outfield After reviewing the infield defense of the National League, I thought I had a good handle on how the outfield would turn out. I didn’t. The oddest thing is how few players really spent a career in centerfield in the National League. Accumulating 5000 innings was rare. I was also surprised at how much closer in talent the centerfielders were. Please note, these ratings do not include OF assists. Center Field The favorite centerfielder of the last decade is Andruw Jones. In Bill James’ Win Shares, he was anointing Jones as the greatest defensive CF of all time. I have been a naysayer most of Andruw’s career with respect to his god-like qualities. So does Andruw come up as the best CF over the last 20 years? If I had written a book in 2003, he would have. His decline the last three seasons has been significant. He has fallen from the highest mark to the middle of the pack. YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 1996 CF Andruw Jones Atl NL 12 71.0 0 0 1997 CF Andruw Jones Atl NL 57 415.3 3 10 1998 CF Andruw Jones Atl NL 159 1373.7 15 15 1999 CF Andruw Jones Atl NL 162 1447.3 11 10 2000 CF Andruw Jones Atl NL 161 1430.3 1 1 2001 CF Andruw Jones Atl NL 161 1435.3 4 4 2002 CF Andruw Jones Atl NL 154 1357.0 3 3 2003 CF Andruw Jones Atl NL 155 1329.0 -9 -9 2004 CF Andruw Jones Atl NL 154 1347.0 -8 -8 2005 CF Andruw Jones Atl NL 159 1366.3 -1 -1 10 yrs CF Andruw Jones Atl NL 1334 11572 20 2 Andruw still has been a good centerfielder, and he was outstanding his first two seasons. He also had a ton of assists those first few years. He also was on a path to be one of the greatest ever, but a few sandwiches seem to have gotten in the way. So who has saved the most runs over in his playing time? It was a pretty close race but Steve Finley won. For a count stat, it helps to play a really long time, and to not be terrible at what you are doing. Finley hasn’t been great at what he does, and has a low seasonal rate, but he’s been there a long time. YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 1991 CF Steve Finley Hou NL 124 948.0 8 11 1992 CF Steve Finley Hou NL 160 1352.3 -2 -2 1993 CF Steve Finley Hou NL 140 1167.0 2 3 1994 CF Steve Finley Hou NL 92 792.7 4 6 1996 CF Steve Finley SD NL 160 1417.7 22 21 1997 CF Steve Finley SD NL 140 1179.0 5 6 1998 CF Steve Finley SD NL 157 1335.3 11 11 1999 CF Steve Finley Ari NL 155 1348.7 1 1 2000 CF Steve Finley Ari NL 148 1284.7 -2 -2 2001 CF Steve Finley Ari NL 131 1111.7 -5 -6 2002 CF Steve Finley Ari NL 144 1171.3 5 5 2003 CF Steve Finley Ari NL 140 1168.3 -9 -10 2004 CF Steve Finley Ari NL 103 896.3 -2 -2 2004 CF Steve Finley LA NL 55 485.7 1 2 13 yrs CF Steve Finley NL 1849 15659 39 3 Finley did have a great 1996, but is not a great centerfielder. He’s been solid, and above average work for 13 years is very valuable. Notice how Finley is just shy of 40 runs above average. I think it can be argued that centerfield has the closest talent level, and teams risk less defensively there than just about anywhere. Coming in second was everyone’s favorite bunter, Brett Butler. Butler was known for using a glove that was larger than the regulations permitted. I assume that is like a hockey goalie’s pads and everyone sneaks an extra inch out there, but when the diminutive Butler waggled that leather peach basket around, you knew he had a one pushing the limits. YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 1988 CF Brett Butler SF NL 156 1326.3 5 5 1989 CF Brett Butler SF NL 152 1293.3 4 4 1990 CF Brett Butler SF NL 159 1391.3 6 5 1991 CF Brett Butler LA NL 161 1409.0 10 10 1992 CF Brett Butler LA NL 155 1318.3 1 1 1993 CF Brett Butler LA NL 155 1382.7 13 13 1994 CF Brett Butler LA NL 111 944.7 -5 -7 1995 CF Brett Butler LA NL 39 332.0 -1 -2 1996 CF Brett Butler LA NL 34 279.0 6 28 1997 CF Brett Butler LA NL 49 408.3 -4 -14 10 yrs CF Brett Butler LA NL 1171 10085 36 5 The best rate (RS/150) for centerfielders belongs to a young player that hasn’t hit his decline phase yet. He’s young, fast, and frustrating at the plate. I don’t now if he’ll be the next Lou Brock, but Corey Patterson has been a very good centerfielder in the National League. YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 2000 CF Corey Patterson ChC NL 11 86.7 0 5 2001 CF Corey Patterson ChC NL 45 245.7 4 24 2002 CF Corey Patterson ChC NL 147 1217.3 3 3 2003 CF Corey Patterson ChC NL 82 710.3 1 2 2004 CF Corey Patterson ChC NL 157 1368.7 16 15 2005 CF Corey Patterson ChC NL 122 987.7 6 9 6 yrs CF Corey Patterson ChC NL 564 4616 30 9
Left Field In left field, Barry Bonds has long had the reputation of being a good fielder, with a weak but accurate arm. Now that we have nearly his entire career evaluated, we can see if that was all bluster, or if he really is a good outfielder. Bonds was about average, maybe slightly above, to start his career, but struggled terribly when he moved to Candlestick. I haven’t seen much park effect for most fields, but when San Francisco moved from Candlestick to PacBell, Bonds’ defense improved significantly. It screams “Park Factor!” YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 1987 LF Barry Bonds Pit NL 100 763.3 8 15 1988 LF Barry Bonds Pit NL 135 1134.0 0 0 1989 LF Barry Bonds Pit NL 156 1337.0 3 3 1990 LF Barry Bonds Pit NL 149 1275.0 2 2 1991 LF Barry Bonds Pit NL 150 1296.7 2 2 1992 LF Barry Bonds Pit NL 139 1241.7 -8 -9 1993 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 157 1370.0 -7 -7 1994 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 112 959.3 -3 -5 1995 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 143 1257.0 -4 -5 1996 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 149 1273.7 -9 -10 1997 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 159 1372.3 -2 -2 1998 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 155 1337.3 -9 -9 1999 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 96 794.3 -3 -6 2000 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 141 1152.7 7 9 2001 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 143 1232.7 9 9 2002 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 135 1115.0 6 8 2003 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 123 1044.0 2 3 2004 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 133 1131.7 -3 -4 2005 LF Barry Bonds SF NL 13 95.0 2 22 19 yrs LF Barry Bonds SF NL 2488 21183 -8 -1 So Bonds is about average over his career. In discussions of the greatest left fielder of all time, Bonds is generally given a huge edge for defense over Ted Williams, and I suspect that is not accurate. I suspect Williams wouldn’t have been worse than the worst of this era, so we probably aren’t talking about 200 runs on defense, but more like 50 runs on defense, and very possibly none. So Bonds was average over a very long career – who as good? The top three were well ahead of the pack, and the top LF doubled up the fourth place fielder. Ron Gant came to the major leagues as a second baseman, and he was awful (-22 RSpt). He went back to the minors to play outfield, and returned to the majors as a left fielder, and played very well. He was someone who didn’t necessarily look good out there, and because he could hit, seemed to be regarded as a weak defender, but the data indicates otherwise. YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 1989 LF Ron Gant Atl NL 2 7.0 0 34 1990 LF Ron Gant Atl NL 38 290.7 -5 -25 1992 LF Ron Gant Atl NL 138 1097.7 5 6 1993 LF Ron Gant Atl NL 155 1384.3 7 6 1995 LF Ron Gant Cin NL 117 930.3 8 11 1996 LF Ron Gant StL NL 116 992.7 5 6 1997 LF Ron Gant StL NL 128 1084.3 10 13 1998 LF Ron Gant StL NL 104 819.0 7 12 1999 LF Ron Gant Phi NL 133 1119.7 15 18 2000 LF Ron Gant Phi NL 84 726.3 3 5 2001 LF Ron Gant Col NL 51 388.0 -6 -20 2002 LF Ron Gant SD NL 78 598.7 4 9 12 yrs LF Ron Gant SD NL 1144 9438.7 52 7 Luis Gonzalez has been a really good player. His 2001 was richly rewarded. He has solid offense and defense numbers and it is no wonder why he’s a fan favorite. His 1998 season with Detroit was a –2 RSpt, but still the second best career over the last 20 years. YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 1991 LF Luis Gonzalez Hou NL 133 1085.7 5 6 1992 LF Luis Gonzalez Hou NL 111 859.3 8 12 1993 LF Luis Gonzalez Hou NL 149 1248.0 3 3 1994 LF Luis Gonzalez Hou NL 111 928.7 -2 -3 1995 LF Luis Gonzalez Hou NL 55 464.0 4 11 1995 LF Luis Gonzalez ChC NL 74 602.0 -1 -3 1996 LF Luis Gonzalez ChC NL 139 1124.0 5 6 1997 LF Luis Gonzalez Hou NL 146 1258.7 -2 -2 1999 LF Luis Gonzalez Ari NL 148 1322.7 8 8 2000 LF Luis Gonzalez Ari NL 162 1431.7 9 9 2001 LF Luis Gonzalez Ari NL 161 1417.7 5 5 2002 LF Luis Gonzalez Ari NL 146 1246.3 10 11 2003 LF Luis Gonzalez Ari NL 154 1359.3 4 4 2004 LF Luis Gonzalez Ari NL 104 900.3 -3 -5 2005 LF Luis Gonzalez Ari NL 152 1318.3 7 7 15 yrs LF Luis Gonzalez Ari NL 1945 16566.7 59 5
YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 1998 LF Geoff Jenkins Mil NL 81 593.7 6 13 1999 LF Geoff Jenkins Mil NL 128 1012.3 11 14 2000 LF Geoff Jenkins Mil NL 131 1126.3 18 22 2001 LF Geoff Jenkins Mil NL 104 897.3 9 14 2002 LF Geoff Jenkins Mil NL 66 570.3 5 12 2003 LF Geoff Jenkins Mil NL 123 1088.3 6 8 2004 LF Geoff Jenkins Mil NL 156 1362.0 10 10 2005 RF Geoff Jenkins Mil NL 144 1241.3 7 7 7 yrs LF Geoff Jenkins Mil NL 789 6650.3 65 13 8 yrs LF/RF Geoff Jenkins Mil NL 933 7891.7 72 12 Jenkins only has 8 years in and has a large advantage over his peers. In 2005, with the acquisition of Carlos Lee, Jenkins shifted to RF. Jenkins hasn’t missed a beat. His career will be underrated in the long run because he plays in Milwaukee, and because he adds tremendous value on defense. Jenkins also has the highest RS/150. He hasn’t hit his decline phase, but to already have posted that many runs above average is just incredible. Right Field If I asked you to name the best defensive right fielder in the NL over the last 20 years, I think you could guess. It is Tony Gwynn. YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 1987 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 157 1330.7 16 17 1988 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 102 891.3 14 21 1989 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 73 633.0 -3 -6 1990 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 141 1266.7 15 16 1991 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 134 1176.7 9 10 1992 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 127 1128.7 13 15 1993 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 121 1012.3 8 10 1994 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 105 900.7 1 1 1995 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 133 1127.7 8 9 1996 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 111 960.0 15 21 1997 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 143 1203.3 1 1 1998 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 116 902.7 -7 -10 1999 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 104 806.3 -2 -3 2000 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 26 202.7 2 13 2001 RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 17 103.0 -1 -12 15 yrs RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 1610 13645.7 90 9 Gwynn was a great rightfielder and spent half of 1989 in center, where he played about average. Coming up behind Gwynn for regulars are: YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 TOT RF Brian Jordan Atl NL 900 7447.3 50 9 TOT RF Raul Mondesi Atl NL 862 7424.7 45 8 Mondesi was a big favorite of the Defensive Average work. This data agrees. Of interest (to me) in the right fielders is two younger players that have set high paces of RS/150. JD Drew YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 1998 RF J.D. Drew StL NL 5 37.0 0 4 2000 RF J.D. Drew StL NL 98 697.3 8 16 2001 RF J.D. Drew StL NL 97 780.3 7 12 2002 RF J.D. Drew StL NL 119 932.7 6 9 2003 RF J.D. Drew StL NL 53 391.0 -3 -12 2004 RF J.D. Drew Atl NL 138 1193.0 8 9 2005 RF J.D. Drew LA NL 44 382.0 6 22 7 yrs RF J.D. Drew LA NL 554 4413.3 32 10 Drew has missed too much time – he’s already 30 to think about getting too much better. His performance to date has been very strong, and he has 1700 innings at the other two positions that he’s performed above average. He’s underrated, in that I don’t know of anyone that thinks of Drew when considering good defensive right fielders. Austin Kearns YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 2002 RF Austin Kearns Cin NL 95 775.7 16 28 2003 RF Austin Kearns Cin NL 51 367.7 4 14 2004 RF Austin Kearns Cin NL 60 508.3 7 19 2005 RF Austin Kearns Cin NL 107 890.0 7 11 4 yrs RF Austin Kearns Cin NL 313 2541.7 34 18 Kearns is one of my favorite players. His 2002 defensive season neared perfection. It is about the best defensive season I can recall. His RS/150 rate is off the charts. So there you have the top defensive players in the NL over the last 20 years. Amazingly, Grace’s total RSpt compared favorably to the other positions. YEAR POS NAME TEAM LG GP INN RSpt RS/150 TOT 1B Mark Grace ChC NL 2162 18590 68 5 TOT 2B Jose Oquendo StL NL 630 4865 79 22 TOT 3B Scott Rolen StL NL 1247 10863 124 15 TOT SS Ozzie Smith StL NL 1206 10383 130 17 TOT LF Geoff Jenkins Mil NL 789 6650.3 65 13 TOT CF Steve Finley Ari NL 1849 15658.7 39 3 TOT RF Tony Gwynn SD NL 1610 13645.7 90 9 This synopsis says that center field has the closest talent set. Third base seems to have the widest talent set, but the other positions seem to have varying opinions on who can play a given position. There are two Hall of Famers already on this list, and Rolen is certainly headed in that direction. That’s a nice show. Yes, in count stats, that would seem to be obvious – more innings, more RSpt. However, RSpt has a good deal of negative, so playing long doesn’t get you on this list. You have to at least good for a long time, or great for a short time.
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Am I right in thinking that everything in play falls into someone's zone of responsibility? Saying that a ball is in someone's zone doesn't mean that it's reasonable to expect them to catch it. And sure, high walls present a special case that ideally would be taken into consideration.
I'm pretty sure responsible zones for ZR are defined as any location where 50% of the plays are converted into outs. I think there are a few areas that are within no one's realm - but Dial or MWE or Chone could answer that better.
It seems strange to me too that balls off the wall are counted as missed in-zone plays. I understand the problem - they'd need more zones - or park-specific zones - to account for the high walls.
Also, with the revamping of the zones in 99, did Stats go back and retroactively change the ZR for outfielders - or are we measuring apples to oranges in the outfield?
In the infield, there are 22 zones in fair territory, and one unassigned zone between 3b and ss, one between 2b and 1b, and 2 zones up the middle.
There are 2 unassigned zones across the OF, for flyballs and popups, and several more for line drives. Also, line drives over 340 to the corners or 370 to center are unassigned.
Actually,if you've ever looked at a world class sprinter, bulking up seems to be the way to go. Such chemically enhanced runners as Ben Johnson, Gatlin, Tim Montgomery all are built like proverbial" brickshit houses". From the little I know about advanced sprinting theory , apparently having a muscular upper torso improves your piston pumping ( or arm actions) thereby increasing your speed.
I think it fair to assume Bonds with his new body by Balco not only could whip the bat head faster, but he probably got a little boost in foot speed as well. Being bulky didn't seem to affect Canseco who was a forty home run man/ forty stolen base in a season guy at an advanced age.
Uh, how do you know exactly how BP'S defensive statistics are calculated ?
And dewan I believe was basing his statement on billjames new relative range factors, which again, has strikingly similar results to bp's FRAA.
Ben Johnson was a runner, a track star, completely different type of steroid user.
Andruw Jones has bulked up over the years, and the results ? - Better power, worse defense. He went from having the greatest peak defensively of all-time, to being about average, while his power numbers leaped.
but he probably got a little boost in foot speed as well
No proof of this at all, and every reliable fielding metric disagrees.
Being bulky didn't seem to affect Canseco who was a forty home run man/ forty stolen base in a season guy at an advanced age.
Irrelevant, and a bad comparison. Canseco was young and in his prime, and never came close to that type of speed again.
Clay Davenport published the initial formula in the 1998 Prospectus, and it doesn't appear from the results as though it's varied much since then.
Which isn't surprising, given that they make the same basic assumptions about BIP distribution.
-- MWE
link ?
It's in the book. Not online.
-- MWE
Errors are not directly considered. This basically reflects how many balls were caught out of balls hit in the zone (plus balls caught out of zone). So you can miss a ball in your zone via lack of range or an error, but it just counts as a missed ball.
For example, on Bonds, his score lowered from 129, to 80, still very good, but not at the very high level it was at before.
On the other hand, Wagner's total went up, now an astonishing 200.
The arm-pump is about sustaining and developing speed once you've gotten going, ie in the 40m-80m zone. Chasing down a flyball, you rarely get up to your full sprinting speed, and you're not normally able to pump your arms because you have this great big glove and you need to stretch for the ball. Unless OFs are regularly covering 200ft or more for a ball - and even Coors isn't that big - I don't think there are big benefits in fielding from roids.
Stimulants are another story, of course.
???? Steroids can't build leg muscle mass too ???? The arms have to be strong enough to keep up with the legs, so I think Richard's description of the arm pump "sustaining" speed is OK; I don't agree with the word 'developing'. You propel yourself forward with your legs; running is controlled falling forward and armswing enhances balance (Stand in place and pump your arms as hard as you like and see how fast you go.) Published 10m splits for the 1987 world championship 100 meter race showed that steroid-user Ben Johnson achieved his lead over Carl Lewis in the first 10 meters and the gap remained pretty constant the rest of the way, including from 40-80 meters.
Baseball steroid users might get faster in a way useful in baseball games; it would depend on their actual training ...
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