BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Rays (83-66) @ RedSox (86-63), Friday, September 16, 2011, 7:10pm

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Friday, September 16, 2011

Rays (83-66) @ RedSox (86-63), Friday, September 16, 2011, 7:10pm

TBR: James Shields (29, RHP, 15-10, 2.70)
BOS: Josh Beckett (31, RHP, 12-5, 2.49)

The Primer Chimp Posted: September 16, 2011 at 01:00 PM | 334 comment(s)
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1. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:01 PM (#3927331)

Tonight, gentlemen, the pants begin to dry out.

2. Gamingboy Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:07 PM (#3927335)

PENNANT CHASE! PENNANT CHASE!

3. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:11 PM (#3927337)

See? All is well...

4. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:12 PM (#3927338)

Wait, is this really how this game is going to start?

5. Dale Sams Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:14 PM (#3927341)

Wait, is this really how this game is going to start?

You expected more? Rays are fools for not bunting again...if anything just to get Jennings to 3rd and give the Rays a good chance to take a lead about 45 seconds into the game.

6. Dale Sams Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:14 PM (#3927342)

All right Josh...remember 2008 when you showed Longoria no respect...

7. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:16 PM (#3927344)

We're ######. Goodbye playoffs.

8. Gamingboy Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:17 PM (#3927345)

Here comes a review, I'm guessing. I think somebody touched it.

9. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:17 PM (#3927346)

Jesus Christ

10. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:17 PM (#3927347)

God Beckett takes forever.

Orsillo goes, "the 1-2 pitch to Longoria" and dead air for ten seconds as Beckett stands there.

#### with the cheapie homer. That's an out in every other park in baseball. Great, great start.

11. Dale Sams Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:17 PM (#3927348)

Can I call em or what?

12. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:18 PM (#3927349)

That's a homer.

13. Chip Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:18 PM (#3927350)

This is obviously not a Big Game, based on Beckett's performance so far.

14. Gamingboy Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:20 PM (#3927353)

That is a home run.

15. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:20 PM (#3927354)

They really need to do something about that area, this happens too often.

16. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:20 PM (#3927355)

I mean, bunt single, foul out, routine fly ball. It's just that the flyball was hit at the perfect angle in the perfect park.

17. Dale Sams Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:21 PM (#3927356)

Don't tell *me* there's no such ####### thing as momentum in sports. Momentum is like the eyeball test for defense in baseball. You need to see all the games, it's difficult to quantify and doesn't nessecerily have a lot of predictive power, but it does exist.

18. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:21 PM (#3927357)

Beckett looks a little rusty, but pretty good. He definitely doesn't seem to be affected by the injury.

19. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:22 PM (#3927358)

I just don't understand why they keep pitching to Longoria. He's the one beating us in the last 3 games now, because they're giving him pitches to hit.

20. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:22 PM (#3927359)

If it doesn't have predictive power, it isn't momentum.

21. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:22 PM (#3927360)

Dale, there's no such ####### thing as momentum in sports.

22. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:23 PM (#3927362)

Beckett got him way off balance, and he didn't hit it well.

That's the first well-hit ball of the inning.

23. Chip Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:23 PM (#3927363)

I mean, bunt single, foul out, routine fly ball. It's just that the flyball was hit at the perfect angle in the perfect park.

If they play 162 games against the Rays, things like this and the bat arriving at Scutaro before the ball last night will even out. Eventually.

24. Dale Sams Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:23 PM (#3927364)

lol Benji.

25. Gamingboy Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:24 PM (#3927365)

Momentum in sports is mental. The conscious word for subconscious suggestions that get in some people's heads that say "we are going to win" or "we are going to lose".

26. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:24 PM (#3927366)

I think there's such a thing as momentum. I just think that people massively, massively overdiagnose it.

27. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:25 PM (#3927367)

They're letting Casey ####### Kotchman steal bases? This team isn't playing for #### in any aspect of the game.

28. Ray (CTL)

Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:31 PM (#3927371)

The Sox are down 2-0 and Dale is still with us? Where are you posting from, Dale? The top of the Tobin Bridge?

29. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:31 PM (#3927372)

Well, that's a start. Gotta at least bring Ellsbury in this inning.

30. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:32 PM (#3927373)

Dale's actually got suicide watch for Jose, so we'll only lose one of them at most tonight.

31. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:33 PM (#3927375)

You gotta love speed.

And Pedroia.

32. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:33 PM (#3927376)

I think there is a better chance we never get the two runs back than there is of us winning this game. Ray, I love ya' but you're just wrong on this one. This team is done like a turkey on Thanksgiving.

33. Ray (CTL)

Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:33 PM (#3927377)

Well, that's a comfort.

34. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:33 PM (#3927378)

OK, way to make me look bad guys.

35. Dale Sams Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:33 PM (#3927379)

Ray, I'll be here even if the Rays sweep. I don't think momentum carries particularly well from series to series or between home and away. Sox will still have a decent chance of winning even if they get swept. I just think Rays are going to do better against NY than people think, and the O's arn't going to roll over.

36. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:33 PM (#3927380)

Two hits in a row, and against Teh Momentum too.

37. Gamingboy Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:35 PM (#3927382)

Rays-Dbacks World Series! Let's listen to Will Smith's "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It","Don't Want To Miss A Thing" and "One Week", go see Saving Private Ryan and prepare to play Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time!

(Note: The Red Sox scored as I was looking up the pop culture of 1998)

38. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:35 PM (#3927384)

He struck out? I thought we had the momentum. Now they have it again.

Blast!

39. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:37 PM (#3927388)

And that's a ####### home run in every other park in baseball. Whatta game.

40. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:37 PM (#3927389)

Well ####, now I'm stuck at work for awhile.

41. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:37 PM (#3927390)

He struck out? I thought we had the momentum. Now they have it again.

Ump uber alles.

And Papi uber Shields.

42. Dale Sams Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:39 PM (#3927391)

Reddick hits more line drives

43. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:39 PM (#3927392)

Reddick's flyout was stung pretty well too.

44. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:39 PM (#3927393)

I don't know which I hate more: the temperature gauge thing, or NESN's continued insistence on trumpeting fielding percentage as the end-all of defensive ability.

45. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:39 PM (#3927395)

That exaggerated crouch and swing back thing that Shields does in the stretch is dumb-looking.

46. Dale Sams Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:40 PM (#3927396)

Damn ump..

47. Dale Sams Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:41 PM (#3927397)

At least we almost never have to see Spitting Garza again.

48. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:43 PM (#3927398)

I don't know which I hate more: the temperature gauge thing, or NESN's continued insistence on trumpeting fielding percentage as the end-all of defensive ability.

You'd think that they'd start using Plus/Minus, if they're getting stats from Bill James, since that's the defensive metric they use on his website.

49. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:46 PM (#3927400)

At least we almost never have to see Spitting Garza again.

Would not be the least surprised to the see the Sox explore a trade for him this off-season. Just a gut feeling.

50. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:47 PM (#3927403)

If the Cubs are willing to discuss a trade centered around WMB and Ranaudo, sure. But if they aren't high on Middlebrooks I don't really see how the Sox would swing a trade.

51. Dale Sams Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:48 PM (#3927405)

I was thinking the Sox would get Wang, Jamie Moyer and Edwin Jackson as 'upside projects'.

52. Dale Sams Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:49 PM (#3927406)

It's 2008 all over again Josh.

53. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:50 PM (#3927407)

Yeah, not sure how it would work, like I said, just a gut.

Really don't want to spend the next three hours in my office but what are you gonna do?

54. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:51 PM (#3927408)

Edwin Jackson looks pretty appealing. If nothing else he's durable but of course that just means he'll get struck by lightning or something.

55. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:53 PM (#3927411)

Shields walked Crawford on 4 pitches? That's hard to do.

56. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:53 PM (#3927412)

Walks

Carl

Crawford

These three words appeared on my phone in a different order but I'm confused.

57. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:54 PM (#3927413)

I wish Crawford still stole bases.

58. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:55 PM (#3927414)

I don't know which I hate more: the temperature gauge thing, or NESN's continued insistence on trumpeting fielding percentage as the end-all of defensive ability.

You'd think that they'd start using Plus/Minus, if they're getting stats from Bill James, since that's the defensive metric they use on his website.

Defensive Efficiency is like the simplest stat in the world, and it's pretty good. Why, why fielding percentage?

(It's always Remy who talks about fielding percentage. It's my guess this is a Remy tic. Back in the 70s and 80s people really did think F% was a useful number.)

59. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:55 PM (#3927415)

Tek looks away from the pitcher a lot while he's waiting for the pitch, more than anyone else I can think of.

60. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:56 PM (#3927416)

Do other broadcasts use anything different? Seems like Fielding Percentage is still the standard bearer. I don't remember seeing any other defensive stats, unless you count "Gold Gloves won", used in a broadcast in any meaningful way.

61. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:58 PM (#3927418)

Jason Varitek is a more peculiar ballplayer than we give him credit for. And credit to him for remaining a capable major league ballplayer longer than anyone would have thought.

62. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:58 PM (#3927419)

I've heard both DRS and UZR referenced on games on YES.

63. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:59 PM (#3927420)

Dunno Jose, but it's one thing to mention that they're "Xth" in fielding percentage and another to proclaim that they're the Xth best defensive team, based on nothing other than fp.

64. Dan Posted: September 16, 2011 at 11:59 PM (#3927421)

Jason Varitek is a more peculiar ballplayer than we give him credit for. And credit to him for remaining a capable major league ballplayer longer than anyone would have thought.

I really never thought his bat would still be an asset while his defense had decayed to unplayably bad, but here we are.

65. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:00 AM (#3927422)

Tek's continued cromulence this season has pleased me greatly.

66. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:01 AM (#3927423)

Benji - I don't disagree, I was just opining that NESN isn't worse than anyone else in that regard. Dan's point disputes that of course.

67. Dan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:02 AM (#3927426)

It's been 23 games since Crawford last even attempted to steal a base. This from a guy who stole 107 bags during the 2 years before he was signed as a FA.

Are you ####### joking? Not only are we for some reason bunting against a guy who's walking the world, but he bunts into a ####### double play? ####### pull him from the game.

68. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:02 AM (#3927427)

I hate the bunt there so, so much. He just walked two guys in a row.

69. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:02 AM (#3927428)

Tek is a no-brainer future manager.

WTF Aviles, pull it back on a pitch like that.

70. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:03 AM (#3927429)

Here's a question. Among all significant (say, $10M plus) free agent contracts given by Theo Epstein, where does Varitek rank?

Probably about even with Drew. Better than Dice and Lackey and Renteria and Lugo and Clement and Wells and Foulke. Looking better than Crawford. There's a "flags fly forever" case to be made for Foulke, I guess.

71. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:03 AM (#3927430)

Unreal.

72. Dale Sams Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:03 AM (#3927431)

Nicely done Sox...i think the positive outcome for the Sox on bunts and hit and runs are about 10%

73. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:04 AM (#3927432)

Classic combination of a bad idea and worse execution.

74. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:05 AM (#3927433)

Baltimore leading LAoA 2-0 in the 4th, Toronto leading the Yankees 1-0 in the 4th...

75. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:06 AM (#3927434)

Matt - If you are counting Varitek shouldn't Youk, Lester, Papelbon be in there? I think all of those are better than Varitek. The first Beckett deal would go in there. Lowell Part I wasn't his and Part II didn't really work.

Ortiz on any of his post-2003 deals.

Just thinking out loud.

76. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:06 AM (#3927435)

Jose, yeah I didn't mean that as arguing back at you about fp, just further articulating my annoyance.

Re: Tek, I wonder if James updated the NHBA now, where he would rank amongst catchers. Probably can't be much lower than 50th or so?

77. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:06 AM (#3927436)

Just when I wasn't feeling horrible this all happens. That was our moment to jump on Shields.

78. ray james Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:07 AM (#3927437)

I can't believe Tito bunted, seeing as how retarded that is to do with no outs and Shields struggling so much with his control.

79. Textbook Editor Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:07 AM (#3927438)

Aviles is bad at baseball.

80. Dan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:07 AM (#3927439)

I just can't believe that A. they were bunting after Shields couldn't find the zone against 2 of the worst hitters in the lineup and B. that Aviles stood there and watched the play before jogging half heartedly to first instead of running that play out. He should have been pulled from the game for pulling that ####.

81. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:07 AM (#3927440)

Jason Varitek was a free agent when he signed with the Red Sox. His contract expired after 2004, he became a free agent, and then the Sox signed him. All of Youk, Lester, and Papelbon did not have the service time to be free agents.

82. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:09 AM (#3927442)

76 - That's a hell of a spitball guess. Varitek ranks 43rd among catchers (750 G) in BBRef WAR.

83. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:10 AM (#3927443)

The first Beckett deal would go in there. Lowell Part I wasn't his and Part II didn't really work.

Beckett wasn't a free agent. He signed an extension while still under contract.

Lowell II was a free agent contract, it goes on the sadness pile in the failure bowl.

84. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:11 AM (#3927444)

Gotcha, I wasn't quite clear (despite you saying "free agent") how you were counting guys.

Yeah, he's high up.

85. Gamingboy Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:11 AM (#3927445)

"whoops"

86. Dan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:12 AM (#3927446)

Varitek is ####### unplayable as a defensive catcher. How the #### can they play him against the Rays?

87. Ray (CTL)

Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:12 AM (#3927447)

Have I mentioned that Francona sucks at managing?

88. Gamingboy Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:14 AM (#3927449)

Odds of 1998 Expansion World Series increasing!

89. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:15 AM (#3927450)

How did Jennings score from first on a single?

90. Dan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM (#3927451)

He stole second, Varitek airmailed the throw to CF, and Jennings scored from third on the following single.

91. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:18 AM (#3927453)

Oh, phone app didn't show the steal.

92. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#3927454)

Shields is very lucky that Pedroia didn't smoke that high change on the 1-1.

93. Dan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#3927455)

Probably because the Gameday stringer was too busy laughing his ass off at how awful Varitek's throw was.

94. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:20 AM (#3927456)

Time for a bunt!

95. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:20 AM (#3927458)

That's funny. Obviously, though, bunting for a hit here is different, and smart.

96. Dan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:23 AM (#3927459)

Gonzalez has been completely neutralized by Rays pitching all season.

97. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:25 AM (#3927463)

I love how much Big Papi loves big games. He's so clearly having more fun the more the games count.

98. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:27 AM (#3927464)

I avoided learning what the temperature gauge was, in any level of detail, because I knew it was gonna be dire. NESN has to ruin it for me.

99. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:29 AM (#3927465)

Scutaro's gotta find some way to run hard through the base there. Slowing up? Really? There had to be another option.

100. Dan Posted: September 17, 2011 at 12:33 AM (#3927468)

I'm surprised Damon hasn't already stolen second with Varitek catching.

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