BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Astros (46-51) at Mets (58-38) 1:20 pm EDT on FOX

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1. Russlan is not Russian Posted: July 22, 2006 at 01:54 PM (#2107437)

Maine is probably going to get at least one more start as Pedro isn't going to join the rotation until next weekend. Can he do anything to keep himself in the rotation after Pedro returns? The Mets are going to need 4 starters in the playoffs. Obviously, Pedro and Glavine are locks. Do you go to a six man rotation to give Maine a chance of earning one of those spots? Or do you remove one of the veteran starters, Trachsel or El Duque, from the rotation? Is this just an overreaction to one good start against a punchless lineup?

2. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 02:33 PM (#2107449)

Can he do anything to keep himself in the rotation after Pedro returns?

Ask me that again after we see what El Duque does today. I'd certainly say that a rough outing for him, combined with another fine start by Maine mid-week, would put tremendous pressure on Minaya/Randolph to keep Maine around in favor of Hernandez.

3. Old Matt Posted: July 22, 2006 at 02:34 PM (#2107450)

Maine pitched a complete game shutout? Holy ####.

Suck it up today El Duque! I want to see you gone.

4. Шĥy Posted: July 22, 2006 at 02:49 PM (#2107454)

Unless El Duque pitches a gem today, there is no reason that Maine shouldn't take his spot.

5. villainx Posted: July 22, 2006 at 03:27 PM (#2107478)

Unless El Duque pitches a gem today, there is no reason that Maine shouldn't take his spot.

El Duque always has a chance to throw a gem, 2 of his last 3 starts have been gem-ish. 4 of his last 8 has been gem-ish. Consistency looks to be the big issue, and as much as I would like to see Maine get a chance to prove himself, 1 game doesn't prove any consistency.

Which of the two has the chance and should be given the chance to work out the bad starts? I guess the plus is that either can be pushed to long relief and can spot start as needed (provided they are kept in fair usage to maintain effectiveness).

Also, with Maine and El Duque (and Trach), the Mets are loaded with 4th/5th starters. Hopefully Pelfrey can keep up the good starts and solidify the 3rd spot.

6. Raskolnikov Posted: July 22, 2006 at 04:20 PM (#2107504)

I try to keep Pelfrey, Maine, and Bannister when he gets here as many starts as possible. We're auditioning for rotation spots right now, and I feel more comfortable with the kids than the old pros right now. I'm fairly certain with what we can get from Trax. Duque, the only question is how much is left in that tank. Let's see what the kids can do.

7. villainx Posted: July 22, 2006 at 04:56 PM (#2107521)

I try to keep Pelfrey, Maine, and Bannister when he gets here as many starts as possible. We're auditioning for rotation spots right now, and I feel more comfortable with the kids than the old pros right now.

I would think that the Mets are auditioning for a post season rotation spot, and because of that Duque should be in the mix some how. If the kids does above average down the stretch, it's still a question mark how they'll fare during the post season. If Duque works his kinks out, veteran/track record and all, I would have some confidence in him.

But at this point I still think it's a toss up enough so that the Mets can work with whatever they have.

8. AJMcCringleberry Posted: July 22, 2006 at 05:36 PM (#2107553)

I'm with Rask. Give the young guys a chance, not only because of this year but next year too.

9. CrosbyBird Posted: July 22, 2006 at 05:58 PM (#2107569)

I would go with a 6-man rotation right now (Pedro, Glavine, Trax, El Duque, Maine, Bannister). Pelfrey can come up in September... I want him still getting out there every 5th day, because there's little question that he will be a regular starter. There's a huge lead and it gives the Mets a lot of time to shake the tree and see what falls out. Plus Martinez gets some extra rest so he's fresh for the playoffs.

If Glavine asks to go every fifth day, you juggle the starters so he can. It's not that complicated to do.

I am probably more comfortable with Trachsel and Maine as the 3-4 starters and El Duque coming out after a quick hook. Bannister is the type of pitcher I think is most likely to get crushed by a patient team. Add his walk proclivity to a team that takes pitches and we're talking huge innings.

By the way, it's bone-dry here in West Nassau county. Why hasn't this game started yet?

10. Bob Koo Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:03 PM (#2107572)

The focus now should be on Pelfrey. I like Maine a lot, and he looked good last night, but he's still at the back of the line. The rotation of Pedro, Glavine, Trachsel, El Duque, and Pelfrey is fine (assuming Pedro comes back next weekend). Now, if El Duque continues to struggle, just have him swap roles with Maine. Bannister's at least a couple of weeks away, so let's cross that bridge when we get to it.

11. Russlan is not Russian Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:09 PM (#2107578)

Bannister? Bannister probably won't make another start for the Mets this season. In fact, I would be shocked if Bannister makes more than 5 more starts for the Mets again.

12. CrosbyBird Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:16 PM (#2107587)

What's Bannister's injury status? It seems like he should be off the DL by now.

13. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:18 PM (#2107591)

The problem with going with the rookies in October is that we don't know how they'll respond to that kind of pressure. They might deal with it fine, or they might implode. And the problem is that other than Pelfrey, none of them have the stuff to get away with making mistakes, especially against playoff-caliber lineups. With the veteran guys, at least we know that the mental aspect won't play a role in their performance.

Bannister probably won't make another start for the Mets this season.

He definitely will make another start this year.

14. villainx Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:26 PM (#2107597)

Pelfrey can come up in September... I want him still getting out there every 5th day, because there's little question that he will be a regular starter.

I would say that makes sense if you don't figure on Pelfrey playing some kind of prominant role in the post season. But if he's going to contribute as a starter, he has to stay in the rotation, I would think. Besides, Pelfrey doesn't seem overmatch in the MLB level.

15. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:28 PM (#2107602)

Can't the Mets put El Duque on the fake DL?

16. Bob Koo Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:30 PM (#2107606)

He gave up a homer to Preston Wilson? Forget it, let's just cut him now.

17. Rob Base Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:31 PM (#2107607)

Oh boy.

18. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:31 PM (#2107610)

The problem with going with the rookies in October is that we don't know how they'll respond to that kind of pressure. They might deal with it fine, or they might implode. And the problem is that other than Pelfrey, none of them have the stuff to get away with making mistakes, especially against playoff-caliber lineups. With the veteran guys, at least we know that the mental aspect won't play a role in their performance.

You know, I don't think I could disagree with this any more. Veterans can give way to pressure just like kids. Give me stuff, and I'll take my chances. The 1969 Mets had nothing but kids in the rotation, and they did just fine.

19. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:33 PM (#2107611)

Two home runs, three runs, two outs. Another deep flyball. Geez. El Duque served his purpose already. The Mets should shut him down, activate him in September and see if he has something left then.

20. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:34 PM (#2107612)

With the veteran guys, at least we know that the mental aspect won't play a role in their performance.

See Rogers, Kenny v. Willis, Dontrelle.

21. CrosbyBird Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:34 PM (#2107613)

El Duque is looking like he wants Maine to take his spot.

especially against playoff-caliber lineups

I don't see a REALLY scary lineup in the entire NL, outside of the Mets. The Cardinals probably are the closest I can imagine, but isn't it pretty much the 1-2 of Pujols and Rolen and then nothing spectacular?

As much as Delgado has been struggling recently, he's still one of 4 starters with a .500+ SLG. And if you pace Reyes's 8 HR, one of 7 starters with double-digit HR.

The NL looks pretty soft right now, sad as it is to say.

22. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:35 PM (#2107615)

Give me stuff, and I'll take my chances.

I agree. But Pelfrey is the only one that has it. Bannister and Maine got nothin.

23. villainx Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:35 PM (#2107616)

El Duque doesn't have his stuff today, it seems.

24. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:35 PM (#2107617)

Wright getting a day off, I assume?

25. CrosbyBird Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:38 PM (#2107619)

Besides, Pelfrey doesn't seem overmatch in the MLB level.

It's been a small sample, but he's been less than spectacular with 12 hits and 7 BB in 11 innings (and only 6 K). I don't think Pelfrey is ready yet, and that's no knock on the kid... I just think he'd do better if he spent a little more time in AAA.

26. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:39 PM (#2107620)

I agree. But Pelfrey is the only one that has it. Bannister and Maine got nothin.

Well, how many slots in the post-season rotation are we talking about? Pedro, Glavine, Pelfrey, Trachsel. Who has room for Bannister, Maine, or El Duque anyway?

(And yes, Dial, if you're reading this, that amounts to an concession: I've given up on El Duque. I still think he presents the higher possibility of the odd great outing than Trachsel, but for the 4th starter role we're talking about, I'd take the likelier solid mediocrity of Trachsel. Ugh though it is.)

27. Bob Koo Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:39 PM (#2107621)

Willie said something about Wright's swing getting long. Hence the day off.

28. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:41 PM (#2107623)

It's been a small sample, but he's been less than spectacular with 12 hits and 7 BB in 11 innings (and only 6 K).

You've just got to toss out that first start, I think. Totally unrepresentative based on nerves. Judge him going forward from there.

29. Bob Koo Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:43 PM (#2107624)

OK, got one back. If El Duque can't get the bottom of this lineup out, then he's really got nothing.

30. Orange & Blue Velvet Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:44 PM (#2107625)

It's been a small sample, but he's been less than spectacular with 12 hits and 7 BB in 11 innings.

He's thrown an inordinate number of groundballs, so the hits are to be expected. If the kid can hold his own with nothing but a fastball, it would do him well to learn at the major league level. Those AA children had very little chance, as evidenced by his HR rate.

31. CrosbyBird Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:46 PM (#2107626)

Sam, it's not like he was substantially different in production in the second start. 7 H, 3 BB, 3 K in 6 IP.

He definitely looked a little sharper, but I'd like to see 3-4 good starts before I can comfortably stop worrying about his K ratio and the walks. I mean, the guy isn't dominating, and if he's really going to be that kind of starter, let him dominate in AAA for another month or so. I see great potential to put too much on this guy a la Ankiel in the playoffs.

32. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:49 PM (#2107627)

Speaking of rotation spots, who should get them next year? This is my ideal rotation:

1. Pedro
2. Glavine (If he walks, get the picks and sign Zito)
3. Schmidt
4. Pelfrey
5. Maine, Heilman, Bannister, FA

33. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:52 PM (#2107629)

I mean, the guy isn't dominating

In his first two starts? That's to be expected. If he's holding his own, that's good enough. Don't worry. The groundballs and the strikeouts will come.

BTW, what's his GB/GF so far?

34. CrosbyBird Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:52 PM (#2107630)

Zito is going to make some team very unhappy in the years to come. I really hope it isn't us.

I don't view Milledge as untouchable in the way I did Wright and Reyes. There are clear merits in a Milledge/Abreu swap, for example. While I think the Mets shouldn't make that trade (if it is even on the table) it would be very defensible. Like someone else said, a guy getting on 44% of the time in front of Delgado, Wright, and Floyd is a pretty tempting thing. And seeing as the Mets are not pretenders, but real contenders this year, those sorts of trades become much more defensible.

-JW

35. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:53 PM (#2107632)

I see great potential to put too much on this guy a la Ankiel in the playoffs.

It's way too easy to see the downside. How often does something like that happen? That was historic because it was so rare. But young pitchers with great stuff becoming stars in the post-season and lifting their teams to glory? It happens A LOT. There's no reason that Mike Pelfrey can't grow into that by the time October rolls around. I'm not saying he's there yet, but that second start was completely different in terms of getting ahead, location, command -- it was a huge step forward.

I want him in the majors, CrosbyBird, not pitching games for a bad Norfolk team that will tell us almost nothing about whether he can really help significantly in the post-season. The chances it'll hurt his development are vanishingly slim, and Omar needs to know what Pelfrey can do before he does whatever he's going to do by way of deal-making.

36. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:55 PM (#2107635)

A rare bad AB from Woodward. Didn't take advantage of a good count . . . .

37. Russlan is not Russian Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:56 PM (#2107636)

Pelfrey has a 3.33 gb/fb ratio.

OFF, why do you say Maine has "got nuthin"? He hits 93-94 with his fastball, has a good curveball, and a decent change. I'd much prefer him to Trachsel in a playoff game.

38. Orange & Blue Velvet Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:58 PM (#2107640)

BTW, what's his GB/GF so far?

2.3. In AA, it was 1.36.

39. CrosbyBird Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:58 PM (#2107641)

In his first two starts? That's to be expected. If he's holding his own, that's good enough. Don't worry. The groundballs and the strikeouts will come.

I'm not saying he's trash. I'm saying that it might be better to rely on a guy who is already getting the groundballs and strikeouts like John Maine. I don't think you can make a compelling argument that Maine hasn't shown more than Pelfrey at the ML level so far.

If Pelfrey really is the real deal, then it won't hurt him long-term to be a little more cautious with him by keeping him in AAA.

40. Raskolnikov Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:58 PM (#2107643)

No one is mentioning my dark horse, Kool Aid 2. I'm almost ready to gulp it down.

41. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:59 PM (#2107644)

I'd much prefer [Maine] to Trachsel in a playoff game.

I'm open to being convinced of this, but I need to see more consistency of quality 6-7 inning outings from Maine first.

42. Bob Koo Posted: July 22, 2006 at 06:59 PM (#2107645)

Zito is going to make some team very unhappy in the years to come. I really hope it isn't us.

Why do you say this? I personally like Zito a lot. He's not old, his K rate has stabilized, and he's shown himself to be very durable. He may not be a perennial Cy Young candidate, but there's no reason why he can't continue to be an above average pitcher. I think he's a better long-term bet than Schmidt.

43. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:02 PM (#2107648)

El Duque seems to have stopped the bleeding for the moment.

44. villainx Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:04 PM (#2107650)

Well, how many slots in the post-season rotation are we talking about? Pedro, Glavine, Pelfrey, Trachsel.

That's how I see it too, except I don't think the Mets leadership is entirely sold on Trachsel. If Maine or El Duque somehow pitches average to slightly above average going forward, one of them might replace Trachsel (or be the pivotal long man). But I want Pelfrey to solidify the 3rd spot. The 3rd starter is going to be the key because as much as I expect Glavine and Pedro to be great, I have some doubts. A solid August from Pelfrey and the Mets chances will be damn exciting.

45. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:05 PM (#2107653)

Pelfrey has a 3.33 gb/fb ratio.

Would that be top 20 in the majors?

He hits 93-94 with his fastball, has a good curveball, and a decent change. I'd much prefer him to Trachsel in a playoff game.

Both Trax and Maine have very pedestrian stuff and depend on a pitch. A split for the former, a curveball for the latter. If they are working, both can be very effective. The difference between the two pitchers is that Trachsel can be "relatively effective/mediocre" without his best pitch. I'm not sure we can say the same about Maine. Maybe he's Trachsel-esque, maybe he's even worse. I certainly wouldn't test it during a playoff game.

46. Russlan is not Russian Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:05 PM (#2107654)

47. Russlan is not Russian Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:07 PM (#2107655)

I meant Hudson and Mulder in 46.

48. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:07 PM (#2107656)

Time for you to fly, Jose.

49. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:09 PM (#2107657)

Terrible call by Froemming. He was easily safe.

50. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:09 PM (#2107660)

Geez, I could see he was safe with the naked eye.

51. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:10 PM (#2107661)

And worse, Froemming was lazy. He made almost no effort to get himself into good position. Terrible.

52. villainx Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:10 PM (#2107662)

I really hope the Mets go hard after Schmidt. I just love watching him pitch. Zito is scary because of the workload he's been through the last few years and the way both Hudson and Zito have fallen off terrifies me. Zito is a premier starter but I think I'd prefer Schmidt as he'll probably be cheaper and require a shorter contract to sign.

I think they are about even, and since either will be taking Glavine's spot or be the second Glavine, either will do. Schmidt is electric when he's on. But so is Zito's hook. Next years rotation at this point seems quite serviceable with either FA.

53. Bob Koo Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:10 PM (#2107663)

Comparing Hudson, Mulder, and Zito is pointless because they're all different kinds of pitchers. The only similarity they have is that they once pitched on the same ballclub. Zito isn't a power pitcher and possesses good mechanics, so high pitch counts and lots of innings don't affect him adversely as much. And how does Schmidt's workload (remember, his managers in SF have been Dusty and Felipe) and injury history not cause fear, while Zito's workload does?

54. stubbyc Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:11 PM (#2107667)

Backe missed the target, but that 3-2 still looked like a strike.

55. villainx Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:12 PM (#2107668)

El Duque recovered his stuff after the 1st?

56. stubbyc Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:12 PM (#2107669)

Nice play by Lance

57. Rob Base Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:13 PM (#2107671)

58. CrosbyBird Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:15 PM (#2107674)

Re: Zito

Why do you say this?

Let's start with this.

BB/IP

78/229.3 = .340
88/231.7 = .380
81/213.0 = .380
89/228.3 = .390
62/138.0 = .449

And then look at this:

K/IP

182/229.3 = .794
146/231.7 = .630
163/213.0 = .765
171/228.3 = .749
097/138.0 = .702

I don't like either of those trends.

And Zito isn't going to be cheap, given age and credentials. If guys like Pavano and Wright and Benson got those contracts, what will Zito get? $13M per? $15M?

Add the final touch... Zito pitches in a good pitching park, in a division with another good pitching park. He's one of the few guys that doesn't stand to benefit from coming to Shea's friendly confines.

I think he's a better long-term bet than Schmidt.

I wouldn't advocate signing Schmidt to a long-term deal either.

59. Russlan is not Russian Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:15 PM (#2107675)

I'm not going to pretend that I know enough about mechanics to comment about that. I just think it is going to take at least 5y/75m to sign Zito whereas 3y/42m might get Schmidt.

60. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:15 PM (#2107676)

Meatloaf???

Jose is still really mad.

61. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:17 PM (#2107678)

Beautiful DP. That should make Reyes feel better.

62. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:19 PM (#2107683)

OK, I have to confess I loved this album -- the first Bat out of Hell -- when it came out.

63. Orange & Blue Velvet Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:21 PM (#2107687)

I loved this album -- the first Bat out of Hell -- when it came out.

I wasn't yet conceived -- when it came out.

Duque keeps us in the game against the legendary Brandon Backe.

64. Russlan is not Russian Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:21 PM (#2107688)

These guys are so annoying.

65. Bob Koo Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:22 PM (#2107690)

It's not like Zito's K rate is bad. 6.3 K/9 (this year) is still good. It just doesn't happen to be as great as his career years.

Add the final touch... Zito pitches in a good pitching park, in a division with another good pitching park.

He also pitches in a division that features the absolute best hitting park in the AL. And don't you think that his numbers would benefit from a move to the NL?

And Zito isn't going to be cheap, given age and credentials. If guys like Pavano and Wright and Benson got those contracts, what will Zito get? $13M per? $15M?

Zito is far, far better than any of those guys. Just to use an example from this past offseason, I'd rather have Zito long-term than A.J. Burnett. No question.

66. Bob Koo Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:23 PM (#2107691)

Good job by El Duque through four. Giving up a bomb to Berkman is nothing to be ashamed of.

67. Russlan is not Russian Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:24 PM (#2107696)

My mom was 14 years old when that album was released.

68. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:25 PM (#2107702)

69. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:26 PM (#2107703)

Now we're cooking. Come on, X.

70. CrosbyBird Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:28 PM (#2107706)

Adam Eaton is the player I'd pursue in the offseason. I think he's going to be the most valuable pitcher signed in the 2006-7 offseason, considering performance for contract.

That finger injury is going to cost him a lot of money in this offseason. Nor does he have a gaudy W-L or ERA to drive up the price.

71. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:28 PM (#2107707)

My mom was 14 years old when that album was released.

I could say something really, really rude. But I won't, no matter how provoked I feel.

72. Russlan is not Russian Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:30 PM (#2107710)

X!!

73. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:31 PM (#2107711)

That might have been Nady's best AB all year. Great stuff -- waited on the tough pitches, fouled them off, then got all over the mistake. Wonderful hitting.

74. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:31 PM (#2107712)

XXX

75. Bob Koo Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:31 PM (#2107713)

X-MAN STRIKES!

76. Rob Base Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:31 PM (#2107714)

Cameron deal is looking good.

77. Chris Dial Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:32 PM (#2107716)

I called that HR. My parents can attest to it.

78. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:32 PM (#2107717)

With Backe's reputation, I have zero doubt that pitch was intentional.

79. Chris Dial Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:33 PM (#2107718)

Sam, 73 is a great description. It was tremendous.

80. villainx Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:34 PM (#2107720)

This Mets team is exciting. Are there any 'Stros fan here today?

81. stubbyc Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:34 PM (#2107721)

With Backe's reputation, I have zero doubt that pitch was intentional.

What reputation? That's absolutely absurd.

82. Rob Base Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:35 PM (#2107722)

jeans comment = pwn3d

83. Chris Dial Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:35 PM (#2107723)

You know, Meat Loaf sang at the Cubs game last week. And he was at the Phils-Braves game last night.

I've seen him three ties on this promotional tour. I guess if I watch the Yankee tomorrow, I'll see him again. Maybe Boston on Monday.

84. Russlan is not Russian Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:36 PM (#2107724)

Sam, I appreciate your restraint.

Levski has displaced Dial as Rob's nemesis.

85. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:36 PM (#2107725)

I don't really care about who we get, but we need to get at least two of the Glavine, Schmidt, Zito group. Then maybe add a Ted Lilly or a inning eater at the end of the rotation, and let Pelfrey and the kids battle out the remaining spot.

I don't see it quite that way, OFF. I want to get younger. Pelfrey's spot should be all but guaranteed, and then there should be a spot available for Maine, Bannister, maybe Heilman and perhaps even Humber (but probably not until later in the season in Humber's case) to fight for. IOW, forget the "innings eater" and the Limas of the world.

86. Rob Base Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:38 PM (#2107726)

Levski has displaced Dial as Rob's nemesis.

True. Dial is obnoxious, but levski is obnoxious, racist, and hates the Mets.

87. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:40 PM (#2107727)

What reputation? That's absolutely absurd.

Never mind. I was thinking of Oswalt -- got my Astros' pitchers mixed up.

88. CrosbyBird Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:41 PM (#2107728)

Zito is far, far better than any of those guys. Just to use an example from this past offseason, I'd rather have Zito long-term than A.J. Burnett. No question.

Don't misunderstand me. I think Zito is a fine pitcher. I just don't think he's an ace and he's going to command ace money.

Of course I'd rather have Zito than Burnett. Even if Burnett was as good a pitcher (he isn't), he's got a much less reliable injury history.

I think SP command the most outrageous salaries, and other than the very top of the top, they never provide the value of their contracts. I think you get much better value out of an Adam Eaton/Kevin Millwood type pitcher than you do out of a Zito/Schmidt contract.

Everyone will be bidding on those two marquee lefties, and the price will be outrageous. There's no way someone doesn't overpay. A guy like Eaton or perhaps even Buerhle (that's buying low, there, for a guy who I'd wager has a huge 2007). In fact, those could be my primary targets in the offseason. Luis Castillo also seems like a nice replacement for Valentin next year.

89. Russlan is not Russian Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:46 PM (#2107732)

The Sox have an option for next year on Buehrle at 9.5 million.

90. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:47 PM (#2107734)

Everyone will be bidding on those two marquee lefties, and the price will be outrageous.

I'm not so sure about that. Who is "everyone" that will have $10M+ to spend? The top of the market right now is populated only by a very few select teams -- which could mean that if Omar is aggressive out of the box for the right guy, and other teams are not quite set in their plans, he could set the market and get his guy right off the bat with an agent and player who don't want to risk being the guy without a chair when the music stops. Remember how the catcher market played out this last off-season for Benji Molina? The high-end pitcher market could operate like that this off-season, if there aren't enough teams with big $$$ to offer the contracts these guys are seeking.

91. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:48 PM (#2107736)

I want to get younger. Pelfrey's spot should be all but guaranteed, and then there should be a spot available for Maine, Bannister, maybe Heilman and perhaps even Humber (but probably not until later in the season in Humber's case) to fight for. IOW, forget the "innings eater" and the Limas of the world.

Pelfrey, yes. But we need to have at least two viable replacement starters down in the minors. Bannister and Maine fit the description for me. I'd like to get Lilly cheap. I think Peterson can fix him.

92. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:50 PM (#2107739)

That late swing by Delgado was hysterical. You could certainly read his mind: "DAMN, I should have swung at that!"

93. Raskolnikov Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:51 PM (#2107742)

You know, this Orlando Hernandez kid, he's not half bad. And he can strike out a few batters.

As for next year's rotation. We go hard after Matsuzaka 5/70. Schmidt is my second choice. Then Zito.

Tentative rotation: Pedro (ace by tradition), Mr. WBC, Glavine, Pelfrey, Heilman (okay, Bannister, but it should be Heilman).

94. Raskolnikov Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:55 PM (#2107747)

Speaking of toolsy Mets OF prospects, looks like Escobar is finally ready to put his stamp on the majors. Major props to Bowden and FRobinson for giving him his chance. Ah, the long and circuitous routes we take in life.

95. stubbyc Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:55 PM (#2107748)

We go hard after Matsuzaka 5/70.

That seems pretty steep in years and $ per year for a relative unknown.

96. Sam M. Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:56 PM (#2107749)

I guess someone decided to leave the wake-up call for Good El Duque for the second inning. Although that last pitch was way outside, I'll take it.

97. Bob Koo Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:56 PM (#2107750)

Gotta give El Duque props for putting together five straight scoreless innings. My fantasy team thanks him as well.

98. Raskolnikov Posted: July 22, 2006 at 07:57 PM (#2107753)

Luis Castillo also seems like a nice replacement for Valentin next year.

I don't see it. One of them is breaking down right now. The other is playing 5 years below his stated age. If you can sign both, alright, but I'd be pissed if we go into the season with Castillo as our only option.

99. Raskolnikov Posted: July 22, 2006 at 08:01 PM (#2107762)

That settles it. Trachsel, you get bumped for now.

(ducking before Dial smites me with a bolt of lightning.)

100. stubbyc Posted: July 22, 2006 at 08:02 PM (#2107764)

McCarver keeps ######## about the pitch to Nady, but the problem wasn't where Ausmus was setup. It was intended to be a frontdoor slider (which Backe uses often against righties), but Backe missed out over the plate. Also, give credit to Nady for hanging in on 0-2 and fouling off some good sliders.

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