BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: Indians (18-13) @ RedSox (12-19), Friday, May 11, 2012, 7:10pm

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Friday, May 11, 2012

Indians (18-13) @ RedSox (12-19), Friday, May 11, 2012, 7:10pm

CLE:Ubaldo Jimenez (28, RHP, 3-2, 4.04)
BOS:Clay Buchholz (27, RHP, 3-1, 9.09)

The Primer Chimp Posted: May 11, 2012 at 10:00 AM | 208 comment(s)
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1. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 06:55 PM (#4129653)

So, what do you all have for an over/under of Buchholz's homers allowed today? I'm thinking 2.5, and i'll take the over.

2. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:17 PM (#4129660)

Hopefully he can limit them to 1-run shots. I'll be optimistic and say he'll allow 2.

3. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4129661)

I think Hafner's going to hit the first of those homers.

4. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4129662)

He looks scary up there. I think Buchholz will walk him, though.

5. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4129663)

Merely a line drive that should've been caught by a true CFer. Santana's turn to give it a go!

6. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:19 PM (#4129665)

This Red Sox outfield is...porous.

7. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:22 PM (#4129667)

Finally gets a 2 strike count, and he hits the guy. What a mess.

8. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:24 PM (#4129668)

McClure doesn't seem to go to the mound much, does he?

9. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:25 PM (#4129669)

Man, he lucked out of that.

10. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:25 PM (#4129670)

That ball didn't hit the bag and bounce away from Gonzalez? Wow, a break!

11. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:28 PM (#4129672)

Ok Red Sox, Jimenez walks a ton of dudes, so don't be Mr swings at everything.

12. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:31 PM (#4129674)

Sanatana doesn't look thrilled to be catching back there.

13. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:34 PM (#4129678)

Jimenez looks almost as screwed up as Buchholz.

14. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:34 PM (#4129679)

Middlebrooks! Sometimes it seems like he's the only one who hasn't been tainted by the Red Sox art of squander.

15. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:34 PM (#4129680)

Middlebrooks!

16. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:35 PM (#4129682)

Man, he never seems to make weak contact. I love it.

17. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:35 PM (#4129683)

I still maintain that they need to play either WMB or Youk in LF once Youk is back.

18. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:38 PM (#4129686)

Cody Ross is cooling down to right about where I expect Cody Ross-type numbers.

19. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:41 PM (#4129689)

Jimenez is oncapable of hitting his spots.

20. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:41 PM (#4129690)

Oncapable is like a cancer of capability.

21. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:46 PM (#4129693)

0 chance tha Buchholz strands that runner.

22. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:48 PM (#4129696)

Why can't anyone on this staff put away hitters after reaching 2 strikes?

23. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:51 PM (#4129698)

Good to see some decent velocity on Buchholz' 4-seamer.

24. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:52 PM (#4129699)

I still maintain that they need to play either WMB or Youk in LF once Youk is back.

Sounds good to me. Does Youk like playing LF more than 3B? I'd think it might be better for his health (easier on his body).

25. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:53 PM (#4129701)

I think Youkilis would rather take an arrow in the knee than play LF.

26. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:53 PM (#4129702)

Lucky as hell that Hannahan missed the plate there.

Youk hated playing LF last time, but I bet he'd prefer it to riding the bench. I agree that it would be good for him since he's having hip and lower back issues and he wouldn't be diving for grounders.

27. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4129703)

Yup, he was out. Nice block by Salty. Some DH-quality play from Nava, but he got bailed out.

28. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4129704)

That's some nice plate blocking by Salty.

29. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4129705)

I think Middlebrooks to left is a lot more likely.

30. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:55 PM (#4129706)

Certainly Middlebrooks deserves to stay up and keep starting if he keeps hitting.

31. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:56 PM (#4129707)

Even if Youk did agree to LF, I would expect Manny Ramirez-level defense from him. I agree Middlebrooks is more likely, assuming he's still hitting.

32. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:57 PM (#4129708)

Barnesday update: He's through two innings, allowed three singles, struck out two.

33. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:57 PM (#4129710)

Punto!

34. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:58 PM (#4129711)

Nava would be a useful player if his defense wasn't so awful. But it is awful, and his bat isn't good enough to make up for that.

35. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 07:59 PM (#4129714)

Offense!

36. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:00 PM (#4129715)

Opposite fields!

37. Phil Coorey. Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:00 PM (#4129716)

morning guys - good start so far

38. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:01 PM (#4129718)

Gio Gonzalez has been incredible this season.

39. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:01 PM (#4129720)

Pedroia sees the game so well.

40. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4129721)

Was hoping Pedroia would tag up on that.

41. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:03 PM (#4129722)

Damon really shouldn't be catching balls that Brantley can get to.

42. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:04 PM (#4129724)

Adrian looks like he's close to getting his opposite field power stroke going, which is good.

43. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:04 PM (#4129725)

We're on pace for a seriously long game tonight.

44. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:05 PM (#4129728)

Was Middlebrooks running hard the whole time? That did not look like two off the bat.

45. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:05 PM (#4129729)

Are catchers allowed an unlimited number of visits to the mound? It seems like Santana's up there every other batter.

46. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:07 PM (#4129732)

Didn't look like 2 at first base either, at least to me.

47. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:08 PM (#4129733)

Middlebrooks looked like he was going easy due to the hamstring.

48. Phil Coorey. Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:09 PM (#4129734)

Should have easily beat the dp

49. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:11 PM (#4129737)

The Rays just scored on a bases loaded HBP after Showalter loaded the bases with an IBB.

50. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:15 PM (#4129742)

Credit to Nava there - he played the carom very well.

51. Phil Coorey. Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4129743)

Nava!

52. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4129744)

That, on the other hand, was the sort of "nice catch" that only a truly awful fielder can make. Manny-esque.

53. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:17 PM (#4129747)

I really like Clay. It sucks that it seems like he can never quite put it together.

54. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:18 PM (#4129748)

The Rays lead a blessed life.

55. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:18 PM (#4129749)

Not that I think anyone else here cares about the Nats very much, but Gio Gonzalez has struck out 6 Reds in a row.

56. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:19 PM (#4129750)

I really like Clay. It sucks that it seems like he can never quite put it together.

I do wonder about the 2007 injury and subsequent re-jiggering of his mechanics. Clay's stuff and strikeout rate never recovered.

57. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4129751)

I really do like Daniel Nava. Someone needs to get him a first baseman's glove, and there might just be an MLB bench bat career for him.

58. Phil Coorey. Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:22 PM (#4129753)

really need to open this up - hes got nothing

59. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:23 PM (#4129754)

You can't be walking Cody Ross twice in a ballgame and expect to be successful.

60. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:23 PM (#4129755)

I really do like Daniel Nava. Someone needs to get him a first baseman's glove, and there might just be an MLB bench bat career for him.

He's too short to be a first baseman. What he needs is a trade to an NL team where he can be a pinch-hitter. He's not a good enough bat to be a DH, but he'd be a good PH and occasional LF for an NL team.

61. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:23 PM (#4129756)

This old CBW article on Buchholz is a reminder of how he used to throw. They sanded the edges off. Maybe he never would have been able to keep his shoulder healthy, maybe the crazy over-the-top release ruined his fastball, but I dunno.

62. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:25 PM (#4129758)

He's too short to be a first baseman.

Maybe to be a good first baseman, but my idea is that Nava should be able to back up 1B and LF and pinch-hit. He's not too short to have that in his utility bat arsenal.

63. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:27 PM (#4129759)

Clay's stuff and strikeout rate never recovered.

Woah, woah, woah. Should I go back and look into the archives here and pull up the 200,000 posts where everyone was saying during 2010 how great Clay's stuff was and how his K rate would catch up to his stuff at some point?

I guess technically this could be true AND his stuff was never the same after 2007. But I thought the consensus was that he still had amazing stuff as recently as 2010.

64. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:29 PM (#4129760)

He did have good stuff in 2010. He still had a good changeup, but he had lost the true 12-6 curveball, as I recall. But he had added an effective cutter/slider and 2-seam fastball instead of a straight low 90s 4-seamer.

65. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:32 PM (#4129763)

Barnes has been perfect in the third and fourth innings, striking out three more.

66. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:33 PM (#4129764)

I was probably being overdramatic about Buchholz, but as Dan says, Buchholz' no-hitter stuff was different from what he's been throwing hte last several years.

67. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:35 PM (#4129768)

The issue with his no-hitter stuff is that the fastball was entirely reliant on guys sitting on the off-speed stuff. He was very effective then when A. both offspeed pitches were working perfectly and B. teams had limited scouting information. Once teams learned to lay off the curve and changeup, that fastball was pure batting practice.

68. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4129770)

He had a pretty solid swinging strike % until last year. He had all the makings of a guy who could strike guys out, but it never really came together.

69. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4129771)

Oh I agree. I thought at the time and still think that they went nuts trying to rework Clay. They did it with Bowden too. And Dice. And others I can't think of.

70. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:38 PM (#4129772)

69 answers #66.

Also, I agree on getting Nava a 1B mitt. Heck, maybe try him at 3B. :)

71. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:40 PM (#4129775)

Not many southpaws get tries at third base.

72. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:40 PM (#4129776)

Could Ortiz at least pretend to try to run out those groundouts?

73. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4129777)

Terrible call by the umpire. He should be on first.

74. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:45 PM (#4129780)

Even in a "good" game. He has 0 Ks, 2 BBs, and a HBP.

75. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4129781)

He will get lit up soon.

76. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4129782)

This entire pitching staff is incapable of striking out hitters, despite routinely getting to 0-2 and 1-2 counts.

77. Phil Coorey. Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4129783)

I wonder if Clay will get a strikeout today...

78. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:48 PM (#4129784)

I'm glad Remy is feeling better, but having him back makes the broadcasts unwatchable again.

79. Phil Coorey. Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4129789)

I really don't care about Orsillo's fishing trip - I hate fishing more than ever now

80. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4129790)

They just spend a whole inning talking about Orsillo catching a baby shark.

81. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:52 PM (#4129792)

This entire pitching staff is incapable of striking out hitters, despite routinely getting to 0-2 and 1-2 counts.

This, a thousand times. Why do they all when ahead 0-2 or 1-2 always seem to a) nibble b) lose control and c) get fouled off repeatedly?

82. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:53 PM (#4129793)

My friend has a theory that Remy is not that bad, that it's Orsillo's egging him on and laughing uncontrollably at every "quip" that makes him horrible.

83. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:54 PM (#4129794)

Why do they all when ahead 0-2 or 1-2 always seem to a) nibble b) lose control and c) get fouled off repeatedly?

I am slowly developing a "Bob McClure is the problem" theory.

84. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:55 PM (#4129795)

@83--Am I remembering wrongly that it started last year?

85. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:56 PM (#4129796)

But Orsillo is perfectly okay when he's paired with other color guys. It could be a case of them just being too buddy buddy, with Orsillo incapable of keeping it professional with someone he's been friends with for so long, but all I know is that Orsillo is only awful when paired with Remy.

86. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:58 PM (#4129797)

Raul Ibanez's corpse just took Felix Hernandez deep for a 4-2 lead in NY.

87. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4129798)

Punto was out, no?

88. Phil Coorey. Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4129799)

Punto looked out

89. Jittery McFrog Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4129800)

Looked out to me.

90. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4129801)

Punto looked out to me.

91. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4129802)

@83--Am I remembering wrongly that it started last year?

Maybe? It's a slow developing theory.

92. Phil Coorey. Posted: May 11, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4129803)

85 is right on the mo money

93. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 09:00 PM (#4129804)

But Orsillo is perfectly okay when he's paired with other color guys.

Hm... He shows the same tendencies. If he was with them longer, I suspect he'd pull the same crap.

94. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 09:00 PM (#4129805)

Bizarre choice by the defense to have the 2nd baseman cover 2nd with Sweeney up.

95. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 09:02 PM (#4129807)

Also, have you noticed how often Orsillo says stuff that just doesn't actually happen? Like he'll say "so and so goes into a dive" and they'll actually have made a running catch.

96. Dan Posted: May 11, 2012 at 09:04 PM (#4129808)

Orsillo tends to call what he expects to happen rather than what really happens, because he's kind of slow and he wants to keep up with that happens on the field.

97. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4129810)

See he runs when it counts!

98. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 09:09 PM (#4129811)

Papi's got a sweet chain on tonight.

99. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 09:10 PM (#4129812)

Ho hum. Looks like Pedroia's settled in as a 900 OPS great-fielding 2B. Ho hum.

100. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2012 at 09:12 PM (#4129815)

"This Middlebrooks guy will never make it."

--Some idiot last offseason.

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