BBTF's Game Chatter Discussion :: NYM (46-28) at TOR (41-33)

Reader Comments and Retorts

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1. Ska Posted: June 25, 2006 at 03:54 PM (#2075081)

When you are a good team, you acknowledge that yesterday is the kind of game you lose as it is only an audition for El Duque and nothing more. You acknowledge as much knowing that today is a game you should win and win easily, notwithstanding the fact that you have a medicore pitcher going for you. The worst thing about Trachsel is not that he is, at best, average. It is that he is seemingly so arrogant while being so sucktastic.

s.

2. Rob Base Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:03 PM (#2075083)

"It is that he is seemingly so arrogant while being so sucktastic."

How so?

3. Benji Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:08 PM (#2075088)

Rob, he was the only guy that ####### last year.

4. Ska Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:09 PM (#2075089)

Ty Cobb is not safe, nor is the Babe, with Jose Reyes around. Damn, if this was 10 years ago and Jose got some steroids, he'd break every record there was.

s.

5. Benji Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:10 PM (#2075090)

I know we lost to Joe Mays, but I can't see losing to Towers.

6. Benji Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:11 PM (#2075091)

Yup, Cohen. 29-53 isn't that great because he isn't walking.

7. Rob Base Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:12 PM (#2075092)

Rob, he was the only guy that ####### last year.

Who, Ska or Trachsel? As for Trachsel, he got dicked around pretty good by Willie - held out of the rotation so that Zambrano could hang on, even though Trax threw a 1-hitter in his first start back. I don't know, Trax isn't my favorite player, or even an important Met really, but I have no hate for the guy.

8. Benji Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:14 PM (#2075093)

After that first start, though, he was terrible. But he cried like he was f'n Sandy Koufax.

9. Ska Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:14 PM (#2075094)

Trachsel's a stiff. He has so many damn excuses and is such a big baby.

Woah. How do 3 straight Mets K against Towers? Beltran and Delgado missed hanging breaking balls. Not a good sign. Perhaps they can't believe that he sucks his badly?

s.

10. Benji Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:19 PM (#2075095)

I hate, hate, hate Steve Traschel.

11. Benji Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:22 PM (#2075096)

But it's still cool that I like 23 of the 25. I don't hate Heath Bell, I just see him as a AAAA guy.

12. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:25 PM (#2075097)

Just got in, forgot about this early start. I've run out of superlatives for Reyes.

13. Old Matt Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:27 PM (#2075099)

What the ####? They've already started and Reyes has a HR?

Jesus.

14. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:30 PM (#2075102)

Now that the US is eliminated, my team is England, which I think has a shot at winning it all.

15. Benji Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:31 PM (#2075103)

I find Reyes' power spike unsurprising. He's always had excellent bat speed and those guys always develop power. Also, this white-hot streak is coinciding with Willie telling him he didn't have to take the first pitch. He was behind 0-1 so many times.

16. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:31 PM (#2075104)

I don't see why they don't just move Wright up to the #2 slot, if Willie doesn't want to disrupt the lineup too much.

17. Old Matt Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:31 PM (#2075105)

You kidding me Rask? No ####### way England wins it all. I like 'em too, but they have no chance advancing past either Portugal or Holland.

18. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:33 PM (#2075106)

What? England is stronger than either Portugal or Holland, this isn't 2002 or 1998.

19. Old Matt Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:35 PM (#2075107)

I don't know...without Owen and a nonexistant Lampard, the English do not have things going for them.

20. Benji Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:35 PM (#2075108)

Kelly Clarkson, the only American Idol winner who won't be doing county fairs in 5 years.

21. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:41 PM (#2075110)

That's what makes this England team so much stronger. Crouch is more than adequate as a striker replacement, they still have Rooney. Gerrard has been fantastic - he and Lampard are the best England's put out there in quite a while. I'll be surprised if they don't get to the semis at least.

22. Joshemy Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:47 PM (#2075111)

Who the hell starts a game at 12:07?

23. Joshemy Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:50 PM (#2075113)

Reyes is on fire.

24. Old Matt Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:52 PM (#2075115)

Crouch is more than adequate as a striker replacement, they still have Rooney.

They won't beat either Holland or Portugal with one striker, like they played with today. Crouch is no good and if he plays, he'll be exposed.

25. Old Matt Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:52 PM (#2075116)

Endy Chavez is no No. 2 hitter.

26. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:53 PM (#2075117)

At this rate, I have to wonder if Reyes could get to .330 by the end of the year.

27. PreservedFish Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:53 PM (#2075119)

OK, so is Jose Reyes the next Ty Cobb, or the next Ted Williams?

28. AJMcCringleberry Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:54 PM (#2075121)

I love Reyes.

29. AJMcCringleberry Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:54 PM (#2075122)

BELTRAN!

30. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:54 PM (#2075123)

Beltran!!! Just tuned in, and saw THAT!!!

31. Old Matt Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:55 PM (#2075124)

Beltrannnnn!

32. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:56 PM (#2075126)

BELTRAN!

33. Rob Base Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:56 PM (#2075127)

Player A:

.287/.352/.529

Player B:

.294/.354/.481

I love this game.

34. PreservedFish Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:56 PM (#2075128)

If Lampard has just played an average game England would have scored 2-3 goals easily. He missed one gimme from Rooney and overshot him about 5 times on passes where Rooney made great runs.

Man I love these Mets. When Pujols got injured I was upset because I love to watch superior players play. Now I'm rooting for another injury so the Beltran-Wright MVP battle can rage all summer long.

35. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:58 PM (#2075130)

If Lampard has just played an average game England would have scored 2-3 goals easily.

Lampard is proving pretty clearly he can't play effectively with Gerrard, at least not in attack. Or at the very least, they haven't figured out yet how to do it.

Trachsel will give back at least one of those runs here.

36. AJMcCringleberry Posted: June 25, 2006 at 04:59 PM (#2075131)

I know nil about soccer, but I'm rooting for Brazil since they were the most exciting team in the games I watched.

37. AJMcCringleberry Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:00 PM (#2075133)

Endy!

38. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:01 PM (#2075134)

I like 'em too, but they have no chance advancing past either Portugal or Holland.

Nonsense. If Mexico can take Argentina to extra time, England certainly has a fine chance against either of those teams. Holland has looked good but not overwhelming, and Portugal is dependent on a bunch of players with a long, long history of disappointing results in big tournaments.

39. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:01 PM (#2075136)

Crouch is no good and if he plays, he'll be exposed.

People keep criticizing Crouch, and yet every year he's up near the top for goals in the Premiership. I'll take him if no one else wants him, thank you very much.

If Lampard has just played an average game England would have scored 2-3 goals easily. He missed one gimme from Rooney and overshot him about 5 times on passes where Rooney made great runs.

Lampard will be fine - we're talking about a top 3 player worldwide here. Of course, I'm also biased because Lampard's my Wright of the soccer world.

I love Carlos Beltran.

40. PreservedFish Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:01 PM (#2075137)

Endy!

BTW, I'm guessing Player B is Reyes, stumped on Player A. My first instinct was Delgado but his average isn't that high.

41. Old Matt Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:03 PM (#2075140)

Aight, I like all your points. I'm a good Devil's Advocate.

The Mets aren't on here, so I turned on the Yankees (Willis v. Mussina) and find Al Leiter in the booth on YES.

42. Old Matt Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:06 PM (#2075143)

1-2-3 inning!

43. Rob Base Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:07 PM (#2075146)

Endy!

BTW, I'm guessing Player B is Reyes, stumped on Player A. My first instinct was Delgado but his average isn't that high.

Nah, I'm in a better mood than that. B is, of course, Reyes (before this little hitting clinic this afternoon).

Player A is Andruw Jones.

44. PreservedFish Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:07 PM (#2075147)

I agree that Lampard will be fine. I think England looked fairly potent - as I said, if Lampard had played to his usual standard, it's a much more comfortable win.

I wouldn't write off the Gerrard-Lampard partnership yet in this new formation ... with a 5th midfielder dropping back in the center and Cole and Beckham both happy to serve balls in from the sides, well, it makes sense to me.

Of course, this is coming from the tactical genius that can stack any team with a $200 million payroll in Championship Manager and still can't win the division.

45. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:08 PM (#2075148)

I'm beginning to think Owen might be the one of the most overhyped players in the world. It's true that he scores a bunch of goals, but it's not as if teams that lose him get dramatically worse (see Liverpool) or teams that gain him get much better (see Newcastle). I think Crouch does as many of the things Owen does, without the oohs and aahs.

46. Ska Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:14 PM (#2075153)

Wright is a nice MVP candidate, but no one mentions Reyes. He leads the majors in runs scored, the NL in 3B's, SB's and is 3rd in the league in hits and plays SS. If he hits .320 something, 215 hits, scores 140 runs, 75 RBI's, with 80 SB's and 15 HR's, all while playing SS, that sure looks like an MVP season.

s.

47. PreservedFish Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:14 PM (#2075154)

I don't hear Owen mentioned often in "best strikers" conversations. There's some hype lingering from his youth, but I don't think he gets too much more than he's due.

48. AJMcCringleberry Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:14 PM (#2075155)

Ugh Trachsel.

49. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:14 PM (#2075156)

This is going to be one of those usual Trax outings.

50. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:14 PM (#2075157)

I'm beginning to think Owen might be the one of the most overhyped players in the world.

Owen would be a great player to be used in the last 20 minutes of a game like today if had still been tied: great speed, all the defenders on tired legs. At the World Cup level, that is his highest, best use. But as the focal point of a team's attack from the start of a game against elite defenders? No way. Injuries have taken away that burst of speed he had when he started out, and without that he's fast but not FAST, and he's certainly not big or tall, so what's he got? Maybe he'd be a decent enough partner for Rooney, but that just wasn't to be . . . .

51. Old Matt Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:15 PM (#2075159)

52. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:17 PM (#2075160)

This is going to be one of those usual Trax outings.

And a "usual Trax outing" is why the Mets either have to hope Soler ends up being a # 3 quality starter, or they have to acquire one. Because I don't want this stuff in Game 3 of the NLDS, or any post-season game thereafter . . . .

53. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:18 PM (#2075161)

Owen would be a great player to be used in the last 20 minutes of a game like today if had still been tied: great speed,

Speaking of speed, I knew that everyone was saying that Messi of Argentina was fast, I didn't realize how fast. Very impressive display of raw tools yesterday against Mexico. Tevez and Messi are the Wright and Reyes of Argentine soccer.

54. AJMcCringleberry Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:19 PM (#2075162)

Stop giving up ####### homers.

55. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:19 PM (#2075163)

Look what happens, Steve, when you DON'T THROW STRIKES. Get behind a Molina 3-1, and he cleans your frigging clock, butthead.

56. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:19 PM (#2075164)

Reyes' awesomeness is the exact inversion of Trachsel's awesomeness.

57. PreservedFish Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:19 PM (#2075165)

Reyes would need an incredible hype machine backing him to win MVP. I don't think he can do it with Wright and Beltran on the same team. He would have to put up those numbers and be widely viewed as by far the most important player to his own team.

Does anyone else think that Trachsel is done? Not for today, I mean, for forever. Will never again be an OK pitcher.

58. Old Matt Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:20 PM (#2075166)

And a "usual Trax outing" is why the Mets either have to hope Soler ends up being a # 3 quality starter, or they have to acquire one. Because I don't want this stuff in Game 3 of the NLDS, or any post-season game thereafter . . . .

That's the only potential flaw I see with this team. They need to find a legitimate third playoff starter out of El Duque, Trachsel and Soler.

I pray Alain emerges.

59. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:22 PM (#2075167)

If Reyes scores 140 runs, then either Beltran or Wright (or both) are going to drive in at least that many, and one of them or Pujols is going to be the MVP. Well, if Pujols stays healthy, HE is going to be the MVP. Let's be realistic, guys . . . any and all Mets' candidates are back-seaters. It's Prince Albert's world and we are all just his subjects.

60. Ska Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:23 PM (#2075169)

This is Trachsel being Trachsel. He's, at best, a 5th starter but somehow people mistake him for a #3. Pelfrey should start Game 3 of the NLDS, with Trachsel safey esconced in the bullpen, hopefully never to be seen in a game.

s.

61. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:24 PM (#2075171)

I'm ready to let Oliver get a shot at starting. Then we'll have to see what Bannister can give us when he returns. I'm ready to move on with Trax, and I'm at the end of the line with El Duque.

62. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:24 PM (#2075172)

You know an inning has potential when Nady and Castro lead off and -- when the smoke clears -- it's second and third, nobody out. Let's go, Jose!!!!

63. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:24 PM (#2075173)

Reyes is hitting .298/.358/.494 right now. Never, in my wildest dreams, did I think that he was capable of doing that this year.

64. Ska Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:26 PM (#2075174)

Jose is over .300 now. His next mission is to solve the middle east situation. If anyone can do it, he can.

s.

65. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:26 PM (#2075175)

The third nice thing about our young players is Milledge. There was concern about his ability to hit for power. I think that those concerns can be allayed now.

66. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:26 PM (#2075176)

Dodge trivia question: I think HoJo might have been the last Met to lead the league in runs. Maybe Lance Johnson???

67. Rob Base Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:26 PM (#2075177)

this is getting ridiculous

68. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:27 PM (#2075178)

.300/.360/.495.

69. Joshemy Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:27 PM (#2075179)

Reyes again!

70. PreservedFish Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:27 PM (#2075181)

Never, in my wildest dreams, did I think that he was capable of doing that this year.

If my wildest dreams of August 2003 count, then yes, I did think he was capable of doing this.

Reyes is now at .300.

71. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:28 PM (#2075183)

And with that Reyes has reached the promised land of .300. Extremely quickly of course.

72. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:29 PM (#2075184)

NAILED IT!!! Ho Jo tied for the league lead in runs in 1989, with Sandberg and Will Clark.

Oh, and Reyes is The Man.

73. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:29 PM (#2075185)

If Chavez could hit, he would be an ideal #2 hitter.

74. Joshemy Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:31 PM (#2075187)

Castro is going to need to sit down for a few minutes after that effort.

75. Ska Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:31 PM (#2075188)

There is no doubt that if Pujols stays healthy, he will win the MVP and rather easily too. The Met votes will get split between Beltran/Wright and Reyes.

I do wish that there was a way that there was less separation between Reyes and Wright. To wit, there are 4 spots in between them. I think perhaps switching Delgado and Wright may be the way to go, especially seeing what kind of monster Wright has been as a clean up hitter.

s.

76. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:31 PM (#2075189)

I love Cohen -- "Here comes Casto lumbering home . . ." Perfect!

77. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:31 PM (#2075190)

I never thought Reyes would show this much power. The AVG yes, but the XBHs and the SLG are remarkable.

78. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:32 PM (#2075192)

If Chavez could hit, he wouldn't be a bench player on the Mets. He'd be locked up long term somewhere considering how good his defense is.

79. David L Williams Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:33 PM (#2075193)

Anyone else unable to get the radio broadcast on mlb.com?

80. Ska Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:35 PM (#2075195)

While his AVG is at .300 now, his SLG is all the way up to .495.
s.

81. PreservedFish Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:35 PM (#2075196)

WFAN just updated me on the England-Ecuador score. Apparently Ecuador is leading 1-0.

82. AJMcCringleberry Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:35 PM (#2075197)

Dodge trivia question: I think HoJo might have been the last Met to lead the league in runs. Maybe Lance Johnson???

How about Edgardo Alfonzo?

83. manchestermets Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:35 PM (#2075199)

England won't win the World Cup. They laboured dreadfully against a not very good team this afternoon - Ecuador's strikers looked hesitant every time they got a chance, if England play like that against one of the better teams, they'll get punished badly. Prtugal and the Netherlands are on a different level, and even if England get past them they'll probably have to play Spain or Brazil in the semi final.

Lampard has just about been the best player over the last three seasons in the Premiership, but he's looked awful all through this world cup. His passing and shooting were awful today, and I can't see why he should suddenly get better against a better team. The truth is than England haven't really played anyone especially good so far, and have struggled to get as far as they have. The coach has no real idea what his best lineup or tactics are.

If Jose Reyes played for England, then they might win it.

84. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:36 PM (#2075200)

So poll question: Does Trachsel:

a) give none of these runs back in the bottom of the fifth;
b) give one of these runs back in the bottom of the fifth;
c) give both of these runs back in the bottom of the fifth;
d) not make it out of the bottom of the fifth.

I vote for (b).

85. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:36 PM (#2075201)

Spoiler Alert

England won 1-0 on a Beckham goal.

86. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:37 PM (#2075202)

The game is over Fish. England won 1-0 on a nice Beckham free kick. Underwhelming performance by England but a win is a win.

87. AJMcCringleberry Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:37 PM (#2075203)

I love that we can argue about which of THREE players can be MVP from this team.

88. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:39 PM (#2075205)

even if England get past them they'll probably have to play Spain or Brazil in the semi final.

Yes, that's when Englad says, "Ta ta."

89. PreservedFish Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:41 PM (#2075206)

I know, I watched the game, I thought that the mistaken update was funny, especially as they thought that the game was still happening.

90. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:41 PM (#2075207)

Lampard has just about been the best player over the last three seasons in the Premiership, but he's looked awful all through this world cup. His passing and shooting were awful today, and I can't see why he should suddenly get better against a better team.

Because I'd rather go with a track record of 3 years than 4 games.

The World Cup is a brief tourney, players and teams can look very bad in one game and suddenly look great in the next. England's accomplished what it's needed to up to this point, which is survive. They'll pick up their level against the elite teams. This is a loaded England squad.

91. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:44 PM (#2075209)

England's accomplished what it's needed to up to this point, which is survive. They'll pick up their level against the elite teams. This is a loaded England squad.

That argument might be persuasive for one more game -- Portugal/Holland. But it is totally unconvincing at the Spain/Brazil level. Those teams are loaded, too, AND they've looked in synch and dangerous in this tournament, and they're healthy, which England isn't. England has about a 50/50 shot of winning once more, I think, and then would be a deservedly huge long-shot in the semis.

92. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:44 PM (#2075210)

Rask, Lampard has not played well for England for a lot more than 3 games. He seemingly has struggled because of the presence of Beckham and Gerrard who play similar roles.

93. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:46 PM (#2075211)

Wow, Trachsel sure seemed to get squeezed on ball four there . . . .

94. Sam M. Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:47 PM (#2075214)

How can the Mets not have anyone up in the bullpen??? Oy.

95. Raskolnikov Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:47 PM (#2075215)

Trax makes me reach for my Maalox.

96. manchestermets Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:48 PM (#2075216)

England don't have a loaded squad at all. It compares poorly to any of the other teams that have been mooted as potential winners. Beyond Terry, Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney England have nobody who could be described as a great player. The likes of Brazil and Argentina have that level of player on their benches.

97. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:50 PM (#2075219)

Brazil hasn't played well except for their last game against Japan. I'm not that worried because the same happened last time, when they didn't really turn it on until they played Costa Rica. They've played better than England but it's hard to say that they are in synch.

98. AJMcCringleberry Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:50 PM (#2075220)

Why is he still in!?!?

99. Old Matt Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:51 PM (#2075221)

TAKE HIM THE #### OUT.

100. PreservedFish Posted: June 25, 2006 at 05:51 PM (#2075222)

OK, I repeat my question. Does anyone else think that Trachsel is done? Which is to say, his career is over?

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