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   1. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 30, 2007 at 04:02 PM (#2461450)
The Teixeira deal finally going down could do free up some secondary deals teams who were interested in Tex were waiting on, and those could cause a chain reacting for deals in principle that were in a holding pattern for one reason or another.

That and the fact that the wildcard race just got tougher might spur some folks to get off their duffs and make some moves.
   2. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 30, 2007 at 04:12 PM (#2461468)
Zambrano will finish this season having pitched 200 plus innings for five straight years. He will have struck out 200 plus batters three straight years. He will have finished in the top ten in ERA for five straight years. He will almost certainly lead the NL in wins for two straight years. Because of the grade of his "stuff", I seriously doubt moving to the other league would be considered an issue by AL clubs.

The Giants did the Cubs no favor with that Zito contract. Because Carlos is WAAAAAAYYYYYY better than Barry. It's not even a discussion. I think the discussion starts at $20 million a year. And if December comes and somebody posts a link stating Z got 6 years at $22 million a year I wouldn't be surprised.
   3. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 30, 2007 at 04:18 PM (#2461484)
Does anyone know if the Izturis trade must be completed by the deadline. I want to get Zach Duke to Iowa right away :)

The ownership gap gives Selig even more say in what the Cubs are allowed to offer, I fear.
   4. Spahn Insane Posted: July 30, 2007 at 04:58 PM (#2461577)
Several months ago, I attempted to squelch discussion that Zambrano would be lost to free agency. Me and my big mouth.

I was right there with you.

I still rate the Cubs' chances of keeping Zambrano well above 50/50.
   5. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 30, 2007 at 06:07 PM (#2461696)
I still rate the Cubs' chances of keeping Zambrano well above 50/50.

I'd go for the under on it, but it's all a guess. It would be out of character for the Cubs to let a star player walk away through free agency, and it will be a PR disaster for Hendry, but the forces at work here (the sale of the club) are much bigger than he is. I think the Cubs definitely might retain Zambrano, but the forces against it are pretty strong.
   6. Spahn Insane Posted: July 30, 2007 at 06:16 PM (#2461711)
it will be a PR disaster for Hendry, but the forces at work here (the sale of the club) are much bigger than he is.

You're right on both counts, but it would also be a PR disaster for the organization/Cubs name brand as a whole. Not that the Cubs wouldn't find willing suitors with or without Zambrano.
   7. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 30, 2007 at 06:20 PM (#2461715)
My misgivings are based on the fact that MLB will be sort of running the finances on this team in the short term and the best interests of ownership as an institution is not really in line with the best interests of the Cubs.

I see no reason why they wouldn't want Zambrano to stay with his team but I also don't see them allowing the biggest pitcher contract in history - even if it is in line with industry growth. So, according my theory, Z stays if he's willing to take something below market or if the Cubs are handed over in November.
   8. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: July 30, 2007 at 06:21 PM (#2461717)
Will Carroll’s mention of Pie, Veal and Jones for Dontrelle Willis comes across as rather silly.

Silly? You're being way too nice on him for that one.

A steady and reliable starter would be nice, a reliever, a catcher who can either hit or play defense, a bench guy with right-handed power…

Do you think the Cubs think they need a starter? The only guy we'd replace right now would be Marquis, and that sure as #### ain't happenning. And the guy they'd be most likely to replace would be Hill, and none of us would want to see that. They think they have depth with Miller in AAA (although he got rocked his last start there), and I don't see the need at the moment. Well, that wouldn't be near the top half of the list. What type of reliever would they go for? To replace whom? I doubt Eyre is going anywhere at this point, and Ohman signed that 2 year deal. They don't need a third lefty, and they could always just bring up that Clay guy. Howry isn't going anywhere, but I would like to stop seeing him games for us (only him and Marquis have losses in the last week or so; well, Marshall but I blame the offense for that one). They're forcing Kerry Wood back on us, and have lots of arms to shuttle up and down right now. And I don't think the Cubs have ever made a good trade for a reliever, so I'd rather Hendry didn't try anything. The Cubs have a defensive catcher, and I think after the Kendall trade they're not making another move at that position. I'm surprised they couldn't beat the offer for Wiggington (Wuertz, perhaps?), but I agree on that. But what about RF and CF? I don't think either of those positions are in good shape for the stretch run (and I still don't think Pie is the answer at this point).

Sure, the word was that if the Cubs failed to sign Zambrano before the season started, he would file for free agency, but you’d think we’d hear something about the Cubs working behind the scenes to get a deal done in spite of that.

Z's said over and over he wants to stay. I think the last time he mentioned it, he said he's 90something percent sure he's staying. And he already did agree on a deal, but it was squashed (5/$80mil). Who knows if that's still good. But I'm not worried about him leaving at all.
   9. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 30, 2007 at 08:18 PM (#2461887)
Actually, I am not thrilled with the idea of the Cubs doing much to change the current team if it means any kind of significant long-term sacrifice.

Z's said over and over he wants to stay. I think the last time he mentioned it, he said he's 90something percent sure he's staying.

I'm only now seeing that ("That's what I feel, man, that I will sign back with the Cubs") but a lot can happen between now and the off-season. We'll see what he says when/if he has other teams lavishing him with huge offers.
   10. karkface killah Posted: July 31, 2007 at 01:01 AM (#2462293)
The Tribune today made it sound all but certain that Z will stay.

And if December comes and somebody posts a link stating Z got 6 years at $22 million a year I wouldn't be surprised.

I'd be surprised. I think that's low. I see some crazy bastard like Hicks, Colletti, Bavasi, or one of the NY teams going above that.

Of course, I'd be surprised if it got to that point. Zambrano seems like a guy who will take a 'discount' to stay.
   11. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: July 31, 2007 at 01:06 AM (#2462298)
Cub fans, how much does Z like to hit? If offers are comparable, will that be something that could steer him in one direction or the other?
   12. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:27 AM (#2462394)
Cub fans, how much does Z like to hit? If offers are comparable, will that be something that could steer him in one direction or the other?

I think he likes it a lot. Good point.
   13. Dr. Vaux Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:31 AM (#2462402)
If I were a pitcher, I'd stay in the NL until the contract I was sure would be my last.
   14. Dr. Vaux Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:31 AM (#2462403)
And out of Philadelphia.
   15. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:35 AM (#2462408)
C'mon gents. It's standard practice for the agent to have his guy talk about how much he wants to stay. It generates goodwill. Because come November is when the gloves come off. I am surprised that anyone is lending much credence to what is being said NOW.

What none of us know is whether Zambrano equates his compensation with stature. Because he IS the prize of this offseason. He IS one of the best if not THE best pitcher in the National League. A pitcher of that stature merits a hefty paycheck. And so, does Zambrano be "reasonable" to stay with the Cubs? Or is he looking to "get his" knowing that this might be his only chance. Because as any pitcher knows, he could wake up tomorrow and that arm doesn't work.

If Zambrano's agent has a clue he has to have Z wait to gauge the market this offseason. He would be stupid to sign anything now unless the Cubs come in packing heavy. And is Hendry in a position to offer Carlos twenty odd million a year for several years?

I am not trying to be the Brewer fan wet blanket. Just watched this play out a time or two. And if Zambrano hits the market the Cubs may be first among equals but that is about as far as loyalty goes. And even then they better have some deep pockets......
   16. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:42 AM (#2462414)
I'm glad Harvey is not Z's agent.
   17. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:59 AM (#2462440)
Andere:

I just think some of the Cubs fans here are falling into the same trap that snares other team's fans. They just can't imagine anyone loving their guy like THEY do and that the player HAS to know that.

Well, it's the agents job to keep his client's options open. And part of that is gently explaining to a player that he will be loved and adored ANYWHERE as long as he performs. I doubt the agent will have to work too hard in reminding Z how Cubs fans treat players who don't do well. This is NOT meant as a dig at you and your brethren. It's just pointing out what happens in just about EVERY baseball town.

A good agent will explain to Zambrano that if pitches well the money will be there come November. If it's the Cubs that's great.

A good agent will explain to Carlos that the market is clearly flush. That there are big market teams with serious pitching needs. Barry Zito got 18 million a year Carlos! You are better than Barry Friggin' Zito. Aren't you?

A good agent will nod when Carlos talks about his great teammates. That this team has a chance to win. And then explain to Carlos that part of the reason they have that chance is because of his pitching. And that the club should compensate him accordingly. And if not, well, there are a lot of good teams out there looking for talent.

The wildcard in the Cubs favor is that Zambrano is emotional. He might wake up one day and tell the agent, "Get it done! Now!!". And that might be it for the negotiations.

But if the agent has the sense God gave a rabbit he keeps Z from making a hasty decision and come late 2007 has the GMs line up with pen in hand...........
   18. Dr. Vaux Posted: July 31, 2007 at 03:05 AM (#2462455)
And a good agent will remind him that he was stinking pretty bad in April and May, and that if his arm is bothering him less now than it was then, it might be coming back and he should get a huge contract now, before it does.

If his arm wasn't bothering then, forget what I said. . .
   19. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: July 31, 2007 at 03:12 AM (#2462465)
Vaux:

Arm slot was wrong. No arm problems......
   20. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: July 31, 2007 at 03:15 AM (#2462472)
If Omar doesn't offer Z at least 6y/120m for Zambrano, I'll be disappointed. That's all I'm going to say.
   21. And You Thought Zonk Was Terminated? Posted: July 31, 2007 at 03:29 AM (#2462488)
*sigh*

Yes - I agree on Z. A few months back, there was talk that Z was looking for "Zito money". I could not fathom why Hendry wasn't knocking on the agent's door with a replica of Zito's contract. Zambrano would actually be WORTH it. I'd even go a few mil higher.

As to the Cubs silence -- I think Moses hit on it. The Cubs don't perceive that they had any needs. They think Marquis since about June is just going through a 'bad patch' (though he's had a few decent outings of late) - not the real Jason Marquis we all think he is. They're shocked that Cliff Floyd cannot stay healthy. They continue to be puzzled as to why Jacque Jones still hasn't learned to hit lefties. They still think Jason Kendall has a swan song in him (it took me exactly one game to realize that was a pipe dream).

Fortunately - I give all props to Lou... He seems to recognize many of these things better than Hendry. He's decided that Hill might actually be better than Kendall - or at least that Kendall shouldn't be the strict starter. He's made Jacque Jones a strict platoon player. He's sat Fontenot appropriately now that the magic is gone. He recognized that even The Riot's no better than average production makes Izturis an expensive -- and expendable -- utility IF.

I suspect that they'll probably do what all contenders think they have to do -- pick up a reliever at some point, maybe a spare bat... I just hope they don't overpay. Don't get me wrong -- were I the GM, I'd recognize that I need another SP (preferrably one in such a way that allows me to move Marquis, difficult though that may be), a C, and OF bat. I'd also be keeping my ears open for potentially available SS (have the O's soured on Tejeda? I'd put together a nice package for Hernandez+Tejeda... Pick any 4 players in the organization not named Zambrano, Lee, or Rameriz).
   22. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2007 at 03:34 AM (#2462500)
FWIW, Jason Kendall is hitting better on the Cubs than he was with the A's.

As long as Marquis is understood to be the fifth pitcher, there is nothing wrong with having him on the roster. Unfortunately, any starting pitching upgrades will probably come at the expense of Marshall.

The Twins have now admitted they are in selling mode. I must assume that the Cubs would be pushing for Torii Hunter if he could be had.
   23. Dan The Mediocre is one of "the rest" Posted: July 31, 2007 at 03:39 AM (#2462515)
The Twins have now admitted they are in selling mode. I must assume that the Cubs would be pushing for Torii Hunter if he could be had.


He has a no trade clause that targets 5 teams, and the Cubs are on that list. They should still pursue him (Moore would be an upgrade over Punto, so we have a piece they'd probably like a lot) but the chances are slim.

If we had a real owner, he might be able to be convinced that a Dunn rental would be worth the added cost. Dunn's defense sucks, but a Soriano-Lee-Ramirez-Dunn core would be the best in baseball.
   24. And You Thought Zonk Was Terminated? Posted: July 31, 2007 at 03:42 AM (#2462520)
I don't know... do the Cubs still have a Twin fetish now that MacPhail's gone?
   25. McCoy Posted: July 31, 2007 at 03:59 AM (#2462536)
I think the Cubs tend to make moves in silence. The cubs are not a gabby bunch and when they do talk they tend to lie (see any injury). How much of a lead time did we get with the ARam-Lofton trade? I don't remember any at all. How much time did we get to consider the Antonio Alfonseca trade? As far as I remember none. The Nomar deal? The Choi/Lee deal, The Karros-Gruzsdjfhbaskbf deal?

Others have beaten me to it but I don't see the Cubs thinking they have a lot of holes right now. The odd thing is at least to me is that the Cubs probably have a surplus of quality major league chits to offer other teams. Packaging Mike Fontenot with a minor league pitcher can probably buy you at least one or two years of a decent hitting right fielder. The real question is is there anything out there worth having and worth giving stuff up for?

The Cubs probably really only need a catcher and even that hole could probably filled in house. The Cubs have the answer to almost all of their long term problems in house (or at least the possibility of it) the problem is is that Hendry has to balance long term with a real need to show any potential owner that he is worth keeping. So Hendry has to win and win now but at the same time he can't gut the farm team like Omar because Hendry has to answer for that next season and the season after that.
   26. Dr. Vaux Posted: July 31, 2007 at 04:00 AM (#2462537)
Harvey, I guess it looks that way, doesn't it? It only serves to remind us how even the best can get really screwed up.
   27. Dr. Vaux Posted: July 31, 2007 at 04:02 AM (#2462540)
Twins are 6 games out of first, after being 9 out three days ago. They shouldn't be selling if they remember last year.
   28. karkface killah Posted: July 31, 2007 at 04:17 AM (#2462554)
The wildcard in the Cubs favor is that Zambrano is emotional. He might wake up one day and tell the agent, "Get it done! Now!!". And that might be it for the negotiations.

This is in-line with my post (#10). Not only has Z always stated that he "wants to stay" in Chicago, but he's given no other signs to be interested in a different route. Could he be slapping the media around? I guess. Looking for a Zito-esque payday? Sure. I just don't see it happening.

5 years, $108 million.
   29. Hurdle's Heroes (SuperBaes) Posted: July 31, 2007 at 06:50 AM (#2462632)
I just think some of the Cubs fans here are falling into the same trap that snares other team's fans. They just can't imagine anyone loving their guy like THEY do and that the player HAS to know that.

*sigh*

I still wish Aramis Ramirez was wearing black and gold.
   30. Walt Davis Posted: July 31, 2007 at 08:31 AM (#2462646)
I'm still disappointed we didn't pick up Lofton.

On Z and Zito ... the market seems it will be flush again ... but as I've opined before, the Zito contract was so over the top that I really don't think teams are going to use it as any sort of serious benchmark. Right now, the Zito contract looks like the Hampton contract (8/$120) ... and we didn't see a contract of that length OR that annual value for a pitcher until Zito (Clemens aside I suppose). Famous flop contracts do have a way of altering the market themselves.

5/$90 for Z is where I'd put the market; 5/$100 is quite plausible. Granted, they're baseball owners, about the most irrational people on the planet, so anything up to 8/$200 wouldn't cause me to faint.

Anyway, I'll be content with Z up to 5/$100. I don't want 6 years although obviously 6/$100 would be fine. :-) But it will be some billionaire's money and if he (or she) wants to throw even more of it at Z, who am I to complain, as long as they're still willing to throw a bunch more of it at, oh, Albert Pujols and Grady Sizemore a few years from now.
   31. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: July 31, 2007 at 01:47 PM (#2462741)
C'mon gents. It's standard practice for the agent to have his guy talk about how much he wants to stay. It generates goodwill. Because come November is when the gloves come off. I am surprised that anyone is lending much credence to what is being said NOW.

Harvey, I don't know if you missed it or not, but I keep saying I'm not worried because the Cubs and Z already agreed on a contract extension. I forget if it was preseason, or within the first month, but they've agreed on a deal. 5 years, $80mil. An absolute steal. But if was put on ice because of the ownership issues. I don't expect that to be the *exact* deal come the offseason (I'm sure the Cubs will have to give him some sort of extra bonus after he wins the Cy Young this year), but it won't be that far off.

The Twins have now admitted they are in selling mode. I must assume that the Cubs would be pushing for Torii Hunter if he could be had.

I've mentioned him a couple of times. I wonder how close him and Jacque were, because I could see Jacque telling Torri to stay the hell away from Chicago if possible.

The Nomar deal?

Agree on the silence of the other deals, but not that one. That one had been rumored for a while (with the Red Sox supposedly coveting Clement), but did appear dead. And the actual deal that happened came out of nowhere at the last possible second. So it was still a surprise.

On Z and Zito ... the market seems it will be flush again ... but as I've opined before, the Zito contract was so over the top that I really don't think teams are going to use it as any sort of serious benchmark. Right now, the Zito contract looks like the Hampton contract (8/$120) ... and we didn't see a contract of that length OR that annual value for a pitcher until Zito (Clemens aside I suppose). Famous flop contracts do have a way of altering the market themselves

Look at Buehrle's extension also. He's probably seen as a similar comp to Carlos, or at least in a similar class, by a lot of baseball people.

This is in-line with my post (#10). Not only has Z always stated that he "wants to stay" in Chicago, but he's given no other signs to be interested in a different route.

I put a lot of weight in that also. If Z was considering going somewhere else, don't you think he would have said something? He's too damn emotional to be secretive, IMO.
   32. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:04 PM (#2462754)
Harvey, I don't know if you missed it or not, but I keep saying I'm not worried because the Cubs and Z already agreed on a contract extension. I forget if it was preseason, or within the first month, but they've agreed on a deal. 5 years, $80mil. An absolute steal. But if was put on ice because of the ownership issues. I don't expect that to be the *exact* deal come the offseason (I'm sure the Cubs will have to give him some sort of extra bonus after he wins the Cy Young this year), but it won't be that far off.

Maybe you know something I don't, but I remember the Cubs being very close to an agreement in that neighborhood. Nothing was signed, and the deadline Zambrano stipulated passed without anything being signed. Zambrano definitely made it clear that he was not sticking to his original ultimatum, but I haven't heard any indication that an actual deal was completed. Perhaps a handshake deal was made between Hendry and Zambrano promising that an agreement was in place. However, there is no reason to think that Zambrano won't want to see what other offers come (Why wouldn't he? He should do this, if for no other reason than to get the Cubs to sweeten their offer), and then there's the real concern to me, that the Cubs' limbo status will prevent them from signing anyone to a big contract.

Walt brings up a very good point regarding the ups and downs of how big contracts are perceived, and I agree that there is no reason to assume that 2008 will be like 2007. However, one fact remains: As far as we know, the Cubs were unable to fully consummate a ~5 year/$80 million deal with Zambrano this past winter. What will have changed in the next six months to make it happen this time around?
   33. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:11 PM (#2462758)
I look forward to welcoming Zambrano to Atlanta next year.
   34. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:19 PM (#2462768)
What will have changed in the next six months to make it happen this time around?

For one, the Cubs will have an owner. That, as far as I can remember is the only reason a contract wasn't signed. They weren't bickering over years or the amount. I'm pretty confident that they'll be in good shape whenever they're given the green light to resume talks. The only thing I should point out is that contract included this season, so maybe the Cubs have to cough up a little more for what would be the new 5th year. But even then, Carlos will still only be 31 and could be in line for another huge deal.

Remember
this thread? Posted a couple days after this thread, right around the time the Trib sale was announced and the Cubs were going on the block.
   35. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:24 PM (#2462771)
Please, Sam, at least the Met trolls have a prayer.
   36. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:25 PM (#2462776)
Please, Sam, at least the Met trolls have a prayer.

Of course. It's not like Mike Hampton's salary comes off the books soon, huh? It's not like that's $17mil per year off the bottom line to reinvest in the pitching core. Nope, not at all.
   37. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:29 PM (#2462781)
It's not like the Braves just added a player who will be making around $10 million next year.
   38. And You Thought Zonk Was Terminated? Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:32 PM (#2462783)
I look forward to welcoming Zambrano to Atlanta next year.

I knew Braves fans were polite, but welcoming the guy that's going to come to town to shut you out 7 innings at a time, whether as a Cub or a Met?
   39. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:33 PM (#2462784)
From MLB4u.com

8-Year worth 121M- he will make in 8M in 2001, 8.5M in 2002, 11M in 2003 (9M of that paid by FLA), 12M in 2004 (10M paid by FLA), 12.5M in 2005 (11M paid by FLA), 13.5M in 2006 (2M paid by COL), 14.5M in 2007 (2M paid by COL), 15M in 2008 (2.5M paid by COL)

Am I missing something here?
   40. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:34 PM (#2462786)
It's not like the Braves just added a player who will be making around $10 million next year.

Hampton ($17m)
A.Jones ($14m)
--------------
($31m)
--------------
Teixeira ($15m)
Zambrano ($16m)
   41. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:35 PM (#2462788)
The Braves also don't have the MO as a big spender in FA since the ownership change. I'm not saying they're shy about adding salary, but it tends to be through trades.

Of course, it's all irrelevant and I stand by the trolling comment.
   42. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:35 PM (#2462789)
Why would Zambrano sign for *less* money in Atlanta than he's already agreed on in Chicago?
   43. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:39 PM (#2462791)
And yes, I see the irony in that statement, considering history.
   44. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:40 PM (#2462793)
Why would Zambrano sign for *less* money in Atlanta than he's already agreed on in Chicago?

Not saying he would. Simply pointing out that Atlanta could work him in.

The Braves also don't have the MO as a big spender in FA since the ownership change.

Word out of Liberty Media is that they're looking to increase payroll, oddly enough. Obviously it has to actually happen, but the initial statements from new ownership is that they're going to spend a little more than the TW salary cap allowed.

I stand by the trolling comment.

So having a casual conversation that doesn't assume exactly what you want to assume is now trolling? You live in an interesting world, then.
   45. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:49 PM (#2462804)
So having a casual conversation that doesn't assume exactly what you want to assume is now trolling? You live in an interesting world, then.

No. Just your initial post was trolling.

---

Even without adding salary, the Braves are pretty well positioned. It would be nice to root for a well run team.
   46. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:52 PM (#2462807)
In 2008 Smoltz gets a $6MM raise, Hudson gets a $7MM raise and Francoeur becomes arb eligible. Mike Hampton is not off the books.

The Braves have already spent Andruw's money and Hampton is not off the books. Adding Teixeira means they will already be bumping the 2008 salary something like $10MM.
   47. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2007 at 02:52 PM (#2462809)
Also - Mike Hampton: not off the books
   48. rfloh Posted: July 31, 2007 at 03:05 PM (#2462821)
Cots also says that there is a $20m club option in 2009 with a $6 million buyout.

From Cots:

# 08:$15M, 09:$20M club option $6M buyout
# Colorado to pay $49M ($20M signing bonus, $8M in 2001, $8.5M in 2002, $2M in 2003, $2M in 2004, $2.5M in 2005, $6M buyout in 2009).
# Florida to pay $23.5M ($7M of 2003 salary, $8M in 2004, $8.5M in 2005).
# Atlanta to pay $48.5M ($2M of 2003 salary, $2M in 2004, $1.5M in 2005, $13.5M in 2006, $14.5M in 2007, $15M in 2008).
   49. Sweet Posted: July 31, 2007 at 03:06 PM (#2462823)
Cot's Baseball Contracts is the best source I know of. It suggests Atlanta's on the hook for the entire $15m in 2008. But not the $6m buyout in 2009 or the $19m deferred piece of the signing bonus -- that's all Colorado.

Mike Hampton p
8 years/$121M (01-08), plus $20M 09 club option


* $20M signing bonus
o $1M to charity, $19M deferred to 2009-18 at 3% interest
* 01:$8M, 02:$8.5M, 03:$11M, 04:$12M, 05:$12.5M, 06:$13.5M, 07:$14.5M, 08:$15M, 09:$20M club option $6M buyout
* Colorado to pay $49M ($20M signing bonus, $8M in 2001, $8.5M in 2002, $2M in 2003, $2M in 2004, $2.5M in 2005, $6M buyout in 2009).
* Florida to pay $23.5M ($7M of 2003 salary, $8M in 2004, $8.5M in 2005).
* Atlanta to pay $48.5M ($2M of 2003 salary, $2M in 2004, $1.5M in 2005, $13.5M in 2006, $14.5M in 2007, $15M in 2008).
* incentives: $0.15M (WS MVP), $0.1M (CY, LCS MVP), $50,000 (2-5 CY vote), $25,000 (All Star, Gold Glove Silver Slugger)
* 3 years/$12M (1998-2000)
* agent: Mark Rodgers
* ML service: 13.073
   50. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: July 31, 2007 at 03:19 PM (#2462838)
According to how much you believe John Schuerholz, the Braves have been managing Hampton as an $8m/year player for the term of his stay in Atlanta, spreading the pain around.

You are right that Hampton doesn't come off of the books until 2009. They still have room to maneuver.
   51. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2007 at 04:39 PM (#2462935)
Things are still quiet, eh?

I can't say I've been pleased with any of the rumors (Pie getting delt for little return or Jay Payton coming this way) but the Cubs do have some pieces to deal.
   52. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 31, 2007 at 06:34 PM (#2463122)
For one, the Cubs will have an owner. That, as far as I can remember is the only reason a contract wasn't signed. They weren't bickering over years or the amount. I'm pretty confident that they'll be in good shape whenever they're given the green light to resume talks. The only thing I should point out is that contract included this season, so maybe the Cubs have to cough up a little more for what would be the new 5th year. But even then, Carlos will still only be 31 and could be in line for another huge deal.

Remember
this thread? Posted a couple days after this thread, right around the time the Trib sale was announced and the Cubs were going on the block.


Yeah, I remember that. I guess I'm not seeing agreements that were almost made as having that much relevance after the season is over, nor that Zambrano's "extending the deadline indefinitely" suggests that he won't file for FA after the season is over, or decide not to negotiate with the Cubs except as a FA.

And what makes you so sure the Cubs will have a new owner by the time FA filing opens?

Again, I understand that the lack of an owner was the problem for the contract not being signed. My point is that I have no faith that that contract will be relevant when a new owner is in place.
   53. Dan The Mediocre is one of "the rest" Posted: July 31, 2007 at 06:38 PM (#2463132)
I have to go to work, so make sure than any transactions that affect NL playoff contenders get posted here. I don't want to have to dig through threads and rumors to find trades.

If the Cubs don't make a move to fill a hole, I'll be very disappointed.
   54. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2007 at 06:42 PM (#2463136)
If the Cubs don't make a move to fill a hole, I'll be very disappointed.

Some noise would be enquieting?
   55. Sweet Posted: July 31, 2007 at 07:41 PM (#2463307)
If the Cubs don't make a move to fill a hole, I'll be very disappointed.

I won't, at least not if it means the Cubs haven't traded away anything. The only gaping hole, in my mind, is at catcher, which the Cubs should fill by cutting Kendall or Hill and promoting Soto. That won't happen, of course, but I'd be even more upset if they traded away Pie, say, for catching help.

The other hole is in the outfield, but I think they've begun to fill that by promoting Murton. Now promote Pie (demoting Cherry) and play Soriano/Pie/Murton against LHP and Soriano/Pie/Jones or Soriano/Pie/Floyd against RHP. Theriot at SS, DeRosa at 2B, usual suspects at the corners. Fontenot, Pagan, Cedeno, Floyd/Jones, and Hill/Blanco round out a solid bench. The Cubs can win a world championship with that lineup -- it's very flexible and well-balanced both offensively and defensively, with very good speed and defense overall.

Won't happen, but it's what I'd do.
   56. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2007 at 07:50 PM (#2463338)
My desire for the Cubs to move players was more based on the value they have that is basically ML ready and unusable for Chicago. It does the big club no good for Scott Moore to just get older in Iowa. And yes, I know that he can still be moved in the offseason but the team is in the race right now and it's not like there will be any big holes to fill this offseason.
   57. Andere Richtingen Posted: July 31, 2007 at 07:54 PM (#2463346)
Won't happen, but it's what I'd do.

I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happened.

Anyway, I agree that the Cubs are probably as well-positioned as they would be if they had made a trade, if not better. Lofton would have been nice.
   58. SouthSideRyan Posted: July 31, 2007 at 08:03 PM (#2463359)
I'd put the chances of the Braves getting Z as being about equal to the chances of the Royals getting Z.
   59. And You Thought Zonk Was Terminated? Posted: July 31, 2007 at 08:27 PM (#2463403)
I can't say I've been pleased with any of the rumors (Pie getting delt for little return or Jay Payton coming this way) but the Cubs do have some pieces to deal.

Yeah, even not as a big Pie fan -- when I heard Jay Payton, I just thought YEESH!

I swear, it's not till like 20 years after they retire that former Mets prospects finally get recognized as the nothing specials they are (aside from Reyes and Wright, of course).
   60. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: July 31, 2007 at 10:41 PM (#2463655)
Anyway, I agree that the Cubs are probably as well-positioned as they would be if they had made a trade, if not better. Lofton would have been nice.

Unless they're going to promote Pie and platoon in right field they could have used a CF or a corner.

Not to mention the catching situation.
   61. McCoy Posted: July 31, 2007 at 10:43 PM (#2463656)
Earlier today I took a look at what the Cubs did in July and what I found surprised me. The offense in July was dreadful. Now before I saw this I thought like others that the Cubs didn't really have a hole anywhere besides catcher but after seeing July's numbers I really think the Cubs needed to have done something. The Cubs pitching staff had its best month of the season so far and the Cubs offense had its worst. Out of the two I don't see the pitching continuing their goodness while I don't see the offense improving by a whole lot. Put a rise in runs allowed with a below mediocre offense and the Cubs could start to lost a bunch of games in no time flat. I think a collapse is a real possibility.
   62. CrosbyBird Posted: July 31, 2007 at 10:43 PM (#2463658)
According to how much you believe John Schuerholz, the Braves have been managing Hampton as an $8m/year player for the term of his stay in Atlanta, spreading the pain around.

I believe Schuerholz is smart enough to do that.

You are right that Hampton doesn't come off of the books until 2009. They still have room to maneuver.

I don't see it, unless there's going to be a big uptick in salary. Call Hampton's 2007 and 2008 salaries the same number and there's still a lot of increasing contracts.

$13.5M comes off with Andruw Jones. Wickman and Dotel make practically the same money in 2008 if you're planning on letting Wickman go.

Tex is at least +$10M, Hudson has a $7M raise, Smoltz a $6M raise, and a couple of players who will get small raises. You still need someone to play CF.

Are the Braves going to go from a $90M payroll to over $100M? If not, I don't see how Zambrano is even close to a possibility.

The Mets are a different story because they will probably break the bank to attract season ticket purchases with the new park opening the following season.

I don't think that's fanboyism. (Besides, I think the Cubs pay what it takes to keep Zambrano.)
   63. Giantandre Posted: August 01, 2007 at 01:57 AM (#2464228)
I don't believe a collapse is in the cards, but it is unbelievable that the catching was not addressed ... B. Molina wasn't available ?????? G. Laird .... almost anyone is an upgrade ... Soto needs to be playing
   64. Andere Richtingen Posted: August 01, 2007 at 02:51 AM (#2464523)
Earlier today I took a look at what the Cubs did in July and what I found surprised me. The offense in July was dreadful.

It wasn't that bad, and the difference between that month and the others can probably be explained entirely by lack of home runs. I don't think that's a trend we'll continue to see.

The Cubs' offense is about what everybody should have expected, and we should continue to see what we've seen up to this point.
   65. McCoy Posted: August 01, 2007 at 03:07 AM (#2464602)
The lack of home runs has been a season long trend why exactly would that trend suddenly reverse itself? Secondly it isn't like these guys are hitting balls over the wall that are getting snagged by outfielders (except for Sorianos the other day)they are hitting a lot of grounders and short line drives. Nobody on this team is on pace to even 30 homers this year.
   66. Andere Richtingen Posted: August 01, 2007 at 01:28 PM (#2465412)
The lack of home runs has been a season long trend why exactly would that trend suddenly reverse itself?

July was atypical for the season. HR/PA by month, starting with April: .020, .023, .028, .013. I see no reason to think that the Cubs won't revert to the mean of those numbers. If you pick a different endpoint (since Jul 15), the HR/PA is .020. The Cubs' overall mark is of course not good (I don't know where that ranks in the league, but assume it to be below average), but I don't see any sort of alarming trend in the month of July. My sense is that while the 2007 Cubs are not a big HR team, July taken alone does not represent their true level.

I guess your overall point is that the Cubs do not have a good offense, and I completely agree with that, but this mediocre offense coupled with good pitching has got them to this point.
   67. McCoy Posted: August 09, 2007 at 05:06 PM (#2478764)
I believe the Cubs won a waiver claim for Shannon Stewart now Beane-Hendry have to come to terms over the next two days. Hopefully no real prospects are given up.

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