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— Cubs Baseball for Thinking Fans

Tuesday, June 21, 2016

Finally, part 2

Patrick Mooney ‏@CSNMooney 15s15 seconds ago
#Cubs put Clayton Richard (blister) on DL and option Adam Warren to Iowa with intent to stretch him out to make start before All-Star break.

Gordon Wittenmyer ‏@GDubCub 3m3 minutes ago
RHP Spencer Patton recalled. LHP Gerardo Concepcion also called up for big-league debut.

The bullpen is all of a sudden very young and inexperienced.  Here’s hoping at least one of these guys (this includes Edwards) really stands out and can stay on the roster all year.  Warren has really been struggling lately, so even if that’s just a cover, he could use going down to work out his kinks.  Cubs don’t have an off day until the All Star break, but no double headers.  I’m fine with the random 6th guy making a start.

Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 21, 2016 at 05:27 PM | 24 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 21, 2016 at 05:33 PM (#5249074)
Happy day everyone!
   2. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: June 21, 2016 at 06:03 PM (#5249094)
5 guys on the DL at the same time.

Speaking of which, when are Soler & LaStella set to get off of it?
   3. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 21, 2016 at 06:05 PM (#5249096)
Carrie Muskat ‏@CarrieMuskat 13m13 minutes ago
Warren will make at least 2 starts at Iowa. Maddon says Warren will then make 1 start pre break and could make 1 after. #Cubs


Carrie Muskat ‏@CarrieMuskat 11m11 minutes ago
#Cubs want to insert Warren to give other starters a breather
   4. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 21, 2016 at 06:10 PM (#5249098)
Speaking of which, when are Soler & LaStella set to get off of it?

I haven't seen anything about either starting a rehab stint yet (which I assume both will get).
   5. Zonk didn't order a hit on an ambassador Posted: June 21, 2016 at 07:07 PM (#5249117)
Good for Concepcion -- he looked like a lost-for-dead bust for several years.

Is Wretched on the DL because of a blister or whiplash?

Well, no one other than Rondon has really lit the world on fire of late -- Strop has had a hiccup here and there, Grimm has really scuffled. Cahill has been solid, but he's had the occasional rough outing, too (that heartbreaker in DC). Wood continues to be great. With the rotation going deep so often, it's not as if they've been overworked.

Soler is eligible to come off the DL tomorrow, but yeah - heard nothing about a rehab stint.

   6. KB JBAR (trhn) Posted: June 21, 2016 at 07:11 PM (#5249119)
Man, if LaStella, Soler, and Dexter all get healthy, that'll probably mean no more Szczur and Almora.
   7. Zonk didn't order a hit on an ambassador Posted: June 21, 2016 at 07:17 PM (#5249120)
Man, if LaStella, Soler, and Dexter all get healthy, that'll probably mean no more Szczur and Almora.


Well, it could mean no more Coghlan... and it could mean DL again for Monterrible. They can also go back down to 12 pitchers - though, with the stretch coming up, it probably makes more sense than usual to have an extra reliever around.

However, long-term -- there's certainly no room (this year) for both absent a move.

If Almora isn't going to play every day, though - it really ought to be him going down. He needs the PAs and Szczur probably is what he is -- a nifty 4th OF having a nice year, but not someone who has more to work on.
   8. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 21, 2016 at 07:17 PM (#5249121)
I wouldn't assume Coghlan is totally safe, nor should he be. I've said before but I think there's now a good chance Soler is traded.
   9. Red Voodooin Posted: June 21, 2016 at 07:28 PM (#5249123)
I sure hope they don't get into a position where they are essentially forced to deal Soler. I don't quite have a sense of what his value is right now. Before the season, it was "cost controlled young starter" value (at least from a Cubs fan perspective) and now we're thinking he might be dealt for relief pitching help???
   10. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: June 21, 2016 at 07:32 PM (#5249124)
I sure hope they don't get into a position where they are essentially forced to deal Soler. I don't quite have a sense of what his value is right now. Before the season, it was "cost controlled young starter" value (at least from a Cubs fan perspective) and now we're thinking he might be dealt for relief pitching help???

I can't imagine his trade value is worth much now. He's often injured, and he gets worse every year.
   11. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 21, 2016 at 07:38 PM (#5249125)
I wouldn't assume Coghlan is totally safe, nor should he be.

I agree, but... in the tiny bit of performance so far, he's kind of picked up where he left off the last two years as a Cub. Trading for Coghlan, giving up an actual prospect, and then having him perform in a not disappointing way, and then dumping him... ? Kind of odd.
   12. Red Voodooin Posted: June 21, 2016 at 07:41 PM (#5249127)
Was Arismendy still an "actual prospect"? I kinda think not. They sure didn't seem to value him as such.
   13. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 21, 2016 at 07:54 PM (#5249131)
I sure hope they don't get into a position where they are essentially forced to deal Soler. I don't quite have a sense of what his value is right now. Before the season, it was "cost controlled young starter" value (at least from a Cubs fan perspective) and now we're thinking he might be dealt for relief pitching help???

I wouldn't say forced. Before Schwarber went down, he was still the most expendable. They've been able to cover as much as possible without getting much from Soler, plus there's other things Szczur and Almora can do anyway.

I don't think he'd be moved for just any reliever. I'm thinking there's a bigger trade out there we haven't thought of yet.
   14. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: June 21, 2016 at 08:17 PM (#5249145)
Was Arismendy still an "actual prospect"? I kinda think not. They sure didn't seem to value him as such.


No, but they got way less than that by trading him in the first place. In essence, they traded Alcantara for a 26 YO pitcher with a career ERA over 8, and is doing a fine James Shields impersonation in Iowa.
   15. KB JBAR (trhn) Posted: June 21, 2016 at 08:17 PM (#5249146)
I just assumed Coghlan would go when LaStella does. Szczur would probably survive one but not both of Dexter and Soler coming back. Montero is probably always eligible for the DL if the Cubs decide they need to buy time.

Still Schwarbird, Almora, Heyward, Soler. with Baez available to sub in for Bryant at 3B.
   16. Walt Davis Posted: June 21, 2016 at 10:05 PM (#5249281)
Interesting moves. If we're only talking about Warren making a couple of starts, I think it might have been simpler just to call up a AAA starter a couple of times but don't really object to this. It will be interesting to see the new relievers anyway. Seems wise to get a look at Concepcion before dealing for a LHR.

young and inexperienced

Warren had a good level of experience but Richard's experience as a reliever is essentially the last two half-seasons and, of course, he hasn't been any good and mainly been last man out of the pen anyway.

I've said before but I think there's now a good chance Soler is traded.

What a difference a week makes. :-)



   17. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 21, 2016 at 10:30 PM (#5249319)
Was Arismendy still an "actual prospect"? I kinda think not.

Sure. I mean, his stock has dropped hugely, and he doesn't register on the Cubs depth charts, which are remarkably deep, but he's better (i.e., someone who has shown some semblance of being a major leaguer) than you expect to give up for a couple of weeks of a $5 million throwaway.

My point is that I think the Cubs intend to keep and play Coghlan.
   18. Spahn Insane Posted: June 21, 2016 at 11:12 PM (#5249377)
I've got no problem with Coghlan getting a significant role on at least a temporary basis, particularly given the injury sitch in the outfield.
   19. SteveM. Posted: June 22, 2016 at 01:14 AM (#5249418)
Concepcion looked good tonight. I still want at least one more reliever. If not Miller or Chapman, Abad from the Twins intrigues me.
   20. Zonk didn't order a hit on an ambassador Posted: June 22, 2016 at 07:03 AM (#5249439)
For the record - I think Miller/Chapman is the only level reliever that I'd be willing to part with Soler for.

Abad wouldn't be a bad get - though, with Mauer at 1B and Park at DH, the Twins have no place for Vogelbach (which is roughly what I'd pay).
   21. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 23, 2016 at 04:28 PM (#5250767)
Mark Gonzales ‏@MDGonzales 54s54 seconds ago
INF Tommy La Stella to continue rehab in Miami. Could be sent to an affiliate on rehab assignment as soon as Monday if he progresses


First update I've seen on him. Still nothing on Soler.
   22. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 23, 2016 at 04:33 PM (#5250774)
Warren had a good level of experience but Richard's experience as a reliever is essentially the last two half-seasons and, of course, he hasn't been any good and mainly been last man out of the pen anyway.

Sure, since you love to nitpick. But Edwards, Patton, and Concepcion had a total of 38 innings of big league experience in total (almost all Patton) going into the game the other night.

I've said before but I think there's now a good chance Soler is traded.

What a difference a week makes. :-)


Since Heyward was signed, I've always said Soler was the most likely to go. WHen Schwarber was hurt, it bought him time. But the Cubs now have enough to cover Lf (or 3b) that Soler is still easy to move. Let's just hope Heyman doesn't make the trade (this is not a rumor, just him speculating):

Arodys Vizcaino and Alexi Ogando to the Cubs for Jorge Soler, 1B Dan Vogelbach and 3B Jeimer Candelario. The Cubs are said to want to hold onto their very top prospects, so that would make Miller and Chapman tough for them. The talented Vizcaino, briefly a Cub, has put together a few very nice months in Atlanta. The Braves would have to spin Vogelbach to an A.L. club.
   23. Zonk didn't order a hit on an ambassador Posted: June 23, 2016 at 05:17 PM (#5250816)
Heyman is an idiot.

First of all, that's a massive overpay.

Second of all, the Cubs already had 2 years to get a look at Vizcaino and there were rumors they suspected his PED issues before shipping him back to the Braves.

Third, why the hell would they want Ogando? He's basically not much different than Trevor Cahill or Adam Warren - OK, he's made an AS - but that was almost 10 years ago. At this point, he's a cromulent RH(!) MR with spotty control.

I wouldn't trade Soler for both of them, much less toss in Voges and Candy.

Yes, Vizcaino has made himself into a great shortman -- but he's redundant, too -- as in, he's basically Rondon and Strop.

Idiot suggestion.
   24. Walt Davis Posted: June 27, 2016 at 03:43 AM (#5252781)
Sure, since you love to nitpick. But Edwards, Patton, and Concepcion had a total of 38 innings of big league experience in total (almost all Patton) going into the game the other night.

My point was that the loss in bullpen experience was Warren being sent down to ramp up to a starter -- which is why I'm not sure that was a great idea. But if it's a good idea, then the Cubs had to lose that experience. Losing Richard out of the bullpen was not losing bullpen experience -- he had 24 innings last year and 12 this year. Note, if Richard was currently doing well as a reliever or had ever done well as a starter, I could see being concerned with losing his experience, even if it had been mostly as a starter.

Assuming the Cubs think his numbers will hold up, getting Vizcaino would be dandy -- sure, he's basically Strop but having two Strops would be a very good thing and provides insurance for having 0 Strops should an injury occur. I agree Ogando is thoroughly redundant and I wouldn't give up that package for the two of them. I wouldn't be thrilled with Soler for Vizcaino but I woouldn't be terribly upset about it.

Since Heyward was signed, I've always said Soler was the most likely to go. When Schwarber was hurt, it bought him time. But the Cubs now have enough to cover Lf (or 3b) that Soler is still easy to move.

Well, golly. In this thread, I said I thought Soler's days may be numbered. You responded with "I highly doubt Soler's days are numbered" and later "Joe loves Soler."

There was some other thread that I can't find -- I think a non-Cubs thread -- where I made some similar comment and you chimed in with something like "I said you were wrong in the other thread."

How we've gotten from me saying there's a good chance Soler is traded and you disagreeing with me and saying that Joe loves Soler to now you saying you've been saying all along there's a good chance he'd be traded is not clear to me but I always get confused by these alternate universe episodes.

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