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   1. Dan The Mediocre is one of "the rest" Posted: June 09, 2006 at 03:25 AM (#2057287)
Shouldn't the K:BB ratio be infinity?
   2. Dan The Mediocre is one of "the rest" Posted: June 09, 2006 at 03:26 AM (#2057290)
I should also note that I wanted Corey back because I felt he could turn it around. I'm happy that he is at least able to be effective for the Orioles.
   3. Jerry Mumphrey Posted: June 09, 2006 at 04:04 AM (#2057351)
As my awesome new screenname would indicate, I think the Orioles have a future All-Star in K-Patt. Not that the Cubs should have kept him, mind you, seeing as their policy is to show more loyalty to their afterthought of a coaching staff than any multi-million dollar player investments. If a player has gotten to the point of needing coaching advice from the Cubs bench, it's only going to get worse.
   4. McCoy Posted: June 09, 2006 at 05:09 AM (#2057381)
I'm not really sure why everybody keeps jumping the gun on Patterson. One of his biggest problems is his streakiness which causes a lot of ups and downs. In May we found him in one of his ups and everyone is running around acting like what we are seeing from Patterson is new. His April saw him post a .286/.300/.490. His SLG was so high because of 3 homers he hit in homer friendly Camden Yards. Outside of that he only hit one XBH and that was a double in Toronto. It wasn't a good April

In May he heats up and everyone jumps on the Corey bandwagon, now it is June and his OPS has fallen 54 points even though he has hit safely in 8 of the 9 games.

So let us wait and see what they get out of Patterson, perhaps he ends up with a .320/.400 OBP/SLG for the season.
   5. Andere Richtingen Posted: June 09, 2006 at 07:51 AM (#2057424)
In May we found him in one of his ups and everyone is running around acting like what we are seeing from Patterson is new. His April saw him post a .286/.300/.490.

Which is pretty good for a CF. That's more or less what we got from Patterson at ages 23-24 before the wheels fell off in 2005.

Ronny Cedeno’s OPS against southpaws. As Ronny Cedeno accumulates at bats, he continues to show the marked reverse platoon split he demonstrated last year. Ronny’s OPS against righties is a robust .831. I realize reverse platoon splits tend to balance out over time, but this is a fairly extreme difference.

It's also a fairly extremely small sample. I expect over the long run for Cedeno's splits to fall into the range of normal.
   6. MM1f Posted: June 09, 2006 at 07:58 AM (#2057425)
"Which is pretty good for a CF. "

Esp if that is a "down"
   7. MM1f Posted: June 09, 2006 at 07:59 AM (#2057426)
Also hes stolen, what, 20something bases and gotten caught ONCE?
Thats pretty damn nasty
   8. MM1f Posted: June 09, 2006 at 08:00 AM (#2057427)
oh that was mentioned in the main entry..right...oops
   9. TomH Posted: June 09, 2006 at 12:06 PM (#2057450)
Camden Yards is a pitchers park
Camden Yards is a pitchers park
Camden Yards is a pitchers park
Camden Yards is a pitchers park
   10. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: June 09, 2006 at 01:00 PM (#2057484)
If a ballclub publicly argues that they are still shooting for a playoff birth, it is its responsibility to put the best players on the field it can, regardless of salary or initial intentions.

If Baker doesn't think Pierre is performing up to his true ability, it's his responsibility to keep putting him out there.

He has widdled his ERA down

That's "whittled". "He whittled it down." Just saying.
   11. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: June 09, 2006 at 01:08 PM (#2057492)
So let us wait and see what they get out of Patterson, perhaps he ends up with a .320/.400 OBP/SLG for the season.

If he does that and steals 50 of 55 bases and plays solid D, he's damn near an All-Star.
   12. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: June 09, 2006 at 02:07 PM (#2057538)
About time I did an update --

The Cubs are now 23-36. Between 1900-2005, there have been 77 teams with the same record.

None made the post-season (0%).

Furthermore, no team with a worse record made the post-season. The team with the worst record through 59 games to make the post-season was last year's Astros. They were 24-35, one game ahead of the Cubs at this point.
   13. Spahn Insane Posted: June 09, 2006 at 02:15 PM (#2057547)
None made the post-season (0%).

Thanks for clarifying. ;)

One (1) of the things I like about you is your attention to detail.
   14. Hendry's Wad of Cash (UCCF) Posted: June 09, 2006 at 02:15 PM (#2057548)
The Cubs are now 23-36. Between 1900-2005, there have been 77 teams with the same record.

None made the post-season (0%).

Furthermore, no team with a worse record made the post-season.


So we finally dropped behind the Astros, eh? I hope the next time Baker/Hendry bring this up, some enterprising young reporter points this out. Hell, I hope it shows up in a column in the Trib or Sun-Times.
   15. Spahn Insane Posted: June 09, 2006 at 02:24 PM (#2057561)
Not to deny the salience of dJf's point. Here's hoping this shuts up the idiots who're convinced that this group of stiff's a team of destiny despite (because of?) their being just as inept as the Astros were the first 2 months of '05.
   16. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: June 09, 2006 at 02:41 PM (#2057581)
I debated whether to put in the percentage, then decided that it would add extra emphasis to my point.

I should have went with 0.0%, for the sake of consistency.
   17. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: June 09, 2006 at 02:47 PM (#2057586)
I hope the next time Baker/Hendry bring this up, some enterprising young reporter points this out. Hell, I hope it shows up in a column in the Trib or Sun-Times.

A couple weeks ago, David Haugh wrote a column questioning the party line, and I sent him an e-mail to point out the percentage at the time (which was 2.8%).

He was underwhelmed, basically telling me "it's a bad team, period."
   18. Spahn Insane Posted: June 09, 2006 at 03:36 PM (#2057650)
He was underwhelmed, basically telling me "it's a bad team, period."

He probably thought you saw the 2.8% as reason for optimism.
   19. Meatwad Posted: June 09, 2006 at 03:53 PM (#2057669)
DJF, Haugh has always questioned the party line when he worked for thesouth bend trib he was the only writer who would trash notre dame
   20. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: June 09, 2006 at 04:03 PM (#2057684)
He probably thought you saw the 2.8% as reason for optimism.

I don't think so. I made it pretty clear how I felt, as evidenced by my last sentence: "How about a deal: If we stop hearing references to teams like the 2003 Marlins and the 2004 Astros, who rallied behind managerial changes, can we also stop hearing references to the 2005 Astros?"

I think he basically agreed, but didn't think I was being particularly insightful.
   21. McCoy Posted: June 09, 2006 at 04:20 PM (#2057707)
Camden Yards is a pitchers park
Camden Yards is a pitchers park
Camden Yards is a pitchers park
Camden Yards is a pitchers park


So what does that have to do with hitting a homer?



He had a .490 SLG because he hit 3 homers at home in April, turn one into a flyball out and his SLG plummets to .408 and his line is .265/.280/.408. Turn it into a double and it is .286/.300/.449.


Nor do I think a .320/.400 season with 55 steals is an all star season, and not really sure what damn near means. What slightly above average? As a Cubs fan I'm not going to cry over one slightly above average season by Corey nor gnash my teeth because he did it with another team.
   22. Jerry Mumphrey Posted: June 09, 2006 at 06:14 PM (#2057851)
No, as a Cubs fan you should cry from being smacked in the face with the evidence that your team has the worst coaching staff at the major league level, all while management insists that coaching staff is so incredibly apt it could only hurt the team if some changes were made simply to placate the fans.
   23. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: June 09, 2006 at 06:21 PM (#2057859)
Nor do I think a .320/.400 season with 55 steals is an all star season, and not really sure what damn near means.

Let's compare theoretical Corey to the rest of the league.

Detroit - Granderson, All-Star caliber.
White Sox - Anderson, stinks, headed for AAA.
Cleveland - Sizemore, All-Star caliber.
Minnesota - Hunter, not so good.
Kansas City - no CF to speak of.

Yankees - Damon, All-Star caliber.
Boston - no CF to speak of.
Toronto - Wells, All-Star caliber.
Tampa Bay - Hollins, not so good.

Texas - Matthews, not normally any good, but what the hell?
Oakland - Kotsay, O.K., nothing special now if he ever was.
Angels - no CF to speak of.
Seattle - Reed, stinks but can at least field.

If Theoretical Corey does .320/.400, puts himself into scoring position nearly every time he gets on, and fields well, he's better than all but the "All-Star caliber" CFs listed above, give or take Gary Matthews' selling his soul to the devil.

As a Cubs fan I'm not going to cry over one slightly above average season by Corey nor gnash my teeth because he did it with another team.

Understandable...but if you'd asked me before the season if they'd be better off with Patterson or Pierre, I'd've said Patterson. At least he has an upside. And that's without taking $$ into consideration.

He had a .490 SLG because he hit 3 homers at home in April, turn one into a flyball out and his SLG plummets to .408 and his line is .265/.280/.408. Turn it into a double and it is .286/.300/.449.

Turn all his hits into outs and he's slugging .000. Man, that's awful.
   24. Jerry Mumphrey Posted: June 09, 2006 at 06:26 PM (#2057871)
BTW, remember hearing this line from DB and JH all last year? "Corey Patterson is our centerfielder of the future. We're not going to trade him just because he's scuffling a bit right now. Besides if we did it could come back to bite us like the Lou Brock trade all over again."

And what do they do a few months later? ...Yes they did, and for a bag of balls. They pretty much found the moment that he was at his absolute lowest value and gave him away for nothing as priority #1 in the offseason. The reason they waited to drain all the trade value out of him first was because they spent the previous two years worrying about Lou Brock. Nevermind the fact that overhauling a coaching staff has never in the history of the game come back to bite a team like the Lou Brock trade, but of course Dusty is treated as a sacred <strike>lizard</strike> cow because of his fine record of penciling Bonds into the lineup for all those wins he gets credit for.
   25. Jerry Mumphrey Posted: June 09, 2006 at 06:47 PM (#2057888)
He had a .490 SLG because he hit 3 homers at home in April, turn one into a flyball out and his SLG plummets to .408 and his line is .265/.280/.408. Turn it into a double and it is .286/.300/.449.

Turn all his hits into outs and he's slugging .000. Man, that's awful.


Ha! My turn: Juan Pierre has a .237 BA in over 50 games this season because the Wrigley infield isn't groomed to suit his particular style of play, turn just 3 of his groundball outs into inside-the-park home runs and......he's still the worst leadoff hitter in the majors!
   26. And You Thought Zonk Was Terminated? Posted: June 09, 2006 at 07:34 PM (#2057955)
It's damn near enough to make me suicidal to say it -

.405
Ronny Cedeno’s OPS against southpaws. As Ronny Cedeno accumulates at bats, he continues to show the marked reverse platoon split he demonstrated last year. Ronny’s OPS against righties is a robust .831. I realize reverse platoon splits tend to balance out over time, but this is a fairly extreme difference.


But doesn't this mean we actually have a role that makes sense for Neifi to fill? With the team going nowhere - I guess I'm not saying I want to see it (might has well see if it's just a statistical anomaly that will straighten itself out... does Cedeno really look this inept against lefties?)

Neifi's .706 OPS against lefties from 2003-05 is nothing to write home about, but it seems like this would be a ready-made platoon (despite it not making "traditional" sense).


...as for Patterson - I wish him the best. I'm usually not all that charitable with ex-Cubs, regardless of the circumstances that ships 'em out of town, but Corey -- I would legitmately root for.
   27. And You Thought Zonk Was Terminated? Posted: June 09, 2006 at 07:58 PM (#2057988)
And what do they do a few months later? ...Yes they did, and for a bag of balls. They pretty much found the moment that he was at his absolute lowest value and gave him away for nothing as priority #1 in the offseason. The reason they waited to drain all the trade value out of him first was because they spent the previous two years worrying about Lou Brock. Nevermind the fact that overhauling a coaching staff has never in the history of the game come back to bite a team like the Lou Brock trade, but of course Dusty is treated as a sacred lizard cow because of his fine record of penciling Bonds into the lineup for all those wins he gets credit for.

Word.
   28. Bobby Savoy Posted: June 09, 2006 at 08:08 PM (#2058002)
Here's another number: 9.8 (from BP's stat of the day)

God-awful. Nine Sal Fasanos are better than that. Maybe the Cubs should be forced to grow handlebar mustaches until they get above the Fasano Line. Dusty too.
   29. Hendry's Wad of Cash (UCCF) Posted: June 09, 2006 at 08:16 PM (#2058013)
Here's another number: 9.8 (from BP's stat of the day)

Michael Barrett alone is 13.8 VORP. Perez, Blanco, and Pierre combine for -24.5 (they're all in the bottom 30 in the majors this year).
   30. MM1f Posted: June 09, 2006 at 08:20 PM (#2058017)
9.8 what?
   31. Kiko Sakata Posted: June 09, 2006 at 08:22 PM (#2058022)
VORPs a counting stat, right? Dear Lord, how bad must Blanco be to be in the bottom 30 in majors in a counting stat that compares him to other catchers' offense?

Holy crap! I just looked up the answer to my question: he's 4-45 with a double and a .303 OPS.

Man, I knew he was a crappy hitter, but wow that's bad!
   32. MM1f Posted: June 09, 2006 at 08:26 PM (#2058033)
Oh, now i see
   33. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: June 09, 2006 at 08:34 PM (#2058044)
Here's another number: 9.8 (from BP's stat of the day)

9.8 is bad enough, but when you see that the next worst in the NL is 43.3, it gives you perspective.
   34. Bobby Savoy Posted: June 09, 2006 at 08:47 PM (#2058058)
I don't really know the ins and outs of VORP, but was curious as to where each position player stood in relation to the rest of the NL (for those with at least 100 PAs).

Barrett is 2nd overall
Jones is 6th
Walker at 1B is 8th
Cedeno is 13th
Ramirez is 15th
Murton is 16th
Neifi is 18th (last)
Pierre is 20th (last)

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