User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
Page rendered in 0.5261 seconds
38 querie(s) executed
|
You are here > Home > Gonfalon Cubs > Discussion
| ||||||||
|
|
BookmarksYou must be logged in to view your Bookmarks. Hot TopicsI guess we're still doing this?
(54 - 10:23am, Oct 07) Last: Brian C This all sucks (41 - 11:13pm, Sep 23) Last: Brian C Darvish Trade Rumors (2 - 10:26pm, Dec 28) Last: Swedish Chef Cubs Postseason Thoughts (12 - 12:27pm, Oct 03) Last: Moses Taylor loves a good maim 60 Second Season Preview (84 - 1:01pm, Sep 28) Last: McCoy Being cheap is not a plan (110 - 1:15pm, Jul 03) Last: Moses Taylor loves a good maim Regrets (160 - 10:25pm, Dec 18) Last: Walt Davis Approaching the Finish Line (137 - 11:53pm, Sep 29) Last: Brian C 2019 Season Predictions (164 - 10:45pm, Sep 24) Last: Itchy Row Taking the current temperature (387 - 11:24am, Sep 16) Last: Andere Richtingen That was fun (488 - 5:41pm, Jul 28) Last: Dag Nabbit: Sockless Psychopath Spring Training (86 - 2:15pm, Mar 26) Last: Moses Taylor loves a good maim Now what? (427 - 3:43pm, Feb 07) Last: Voodoo The Final Push (346 - 11:16am, Oct 03) Last: Moses Taylor loves a good maim The Third Third (296 - 6:20pm, Sep 04) Last: Moses Taylor loves a good maim Syndicate |
|||||||
|
About Baseball Think Factory | Write for Us | Copyright © 1996-2021 Baseball Think Factory
User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
|
| | ||||||
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: August 21, 2017 at 11:42 AM (#5517864)Boxscore. DBacks scored 2 in 10th off Aguilera and Heredia, Cubs 3, including a walkoff double by Jeff Reed. Cubs had 2 strike outs that inning, but neither of them reached.
I think this El Mago thing sort of captures the spirit of that type of nickname. He's such a different player than what I expected - almost exclusively in a good way in spite of the ridiculous strikeouts. Never thought someone could be so entertaining, and in the way Baez is.
By the way, I just realized that 2003 is as long ago as 1989 was in 2003. That seems impossible to believe. Funny how getting older works. The Bartman game could have been yesterday, but 1989 felt like already ancient history in 2003.
Um, isn't that what one would expect?
Um, did you watch the game Sunday?
No, I didn't. I saw the game winning hit, but that was it. So, wow, 2 dropped thrid reached, plus another WP, plus a HBP. Stellar inning.
What's the exact opposite of reassuring?
You know, it never occurred to me to compare Javy to Shawon... The numbers don't really align primarily because Shawon's defense was too inconsistent to get beyond grading out as average or slightly above, but they're remarkably similar players in a lot of ways.
Shawon certainly did make some pretty jaw-dropping plays at his best (and he also made some jaw-dropping plays at his worst).
Javy feels like a more refined Dunston - i.e., if you could take Shawon's undeniable skills and have it all play a little smoother and more under control.
Yeah, he's been a little better lately, but still...
Obviously at some point Javy's lack of walks will start to bite him. One thing I wasn't sure we'd ever see out of him was a good postseason -- it seems good pitchers should eat him alive. But he was of course quite good in the first two rounds last year before turning into the guy I feared in the WS (13 Ks in 30 PA, 167/167/267).
Anyway, I'm more than happy to take the bad with the good.
I made that drive yesterday, and it was a slog, though I'd have expected the eclipse traffic to have dispersed by now...
Ugh.
Phew.
Agreed. I just meant that Dunston did a good job of turning his speed into positive outcomes on the bases too.
Left hand contusion for Bryant. X-rays negative for fractures. If he's going to miss time, Cubs don't expect it to be anything big.
After all these years, the Cubs need Christian Villanueva but don't have him anymore. (Hitting 291/368/531 in El Paso though and still just 26. Don't get too excited, still the PCL and that's just the fifth best OPS among regulars on the team.)
Dunston was a strange hitter. He made a lot of hard contact and despite regularly taking wild swings at balls out of the strike zone, he didn't strike out a whole lot.
I am hoping Javi can improve against RHP -- he's helpless against righties throwing sliders.
Anyway, I think they've both got cannon arms. They've both got violent swings - and Andere makes another good point, I very much agree with remembering Dunston making a ton of hard contact. They both have great range - Dunston was just forever undone by the fact that he was incapable of eating a ball he should have eaten and instead, airmailing into the seats for an error.
I wish we had some of today's advanced measures - exit velocity, etc -- for Shawon.
FWIW, though - was Dunston a "good" baserunner? His SB/CS numbers look meh, at best -- my recollection of Dunston is that he was the master of hustle, and you'd NEVER see him missing out on extra base on a bobbled ball because he was jogging to the next base. I also remember more than a few doubles that were actually singles made into doubles by lollygoging OFers.
By the way, I didn't really mean to compare Dunston and Baez overall. I was just pointing out that one (somewhat amusing) similarity. Despite their refusal to take walks, they're not really even very similar in terms of discipline, since as Andere alluded to, Dunston basically struck out at about a league average rate, and Baez ... well, he's somewhat higher than league average.
It's pretty remarkable that Dunston stayed in the league so long, given his nearly career-long lack of actual value - 1800+ games played and only 11.5 bWAR. I remember listening to the 2002 World Series on the radio one night when he hit that homer, and more than anything just being shocked that he was still in the majors. Still, I was really happy for him, because despite all of his very obvious flaws he was a favorite of mine when I was growing up. He and Ryno were the two mainstays from the time I started watching until I got to high school.
Well, and Maddux, technically, but that was a different story.
As a young player he was very sloppy at the plate, on the bases, and in the field (Sandberg to Dunston to Calumet City). But he seemed to mature quite a bit as he got older, in just about every way. He was never a great player, or even a very good one I suppose, but he settled into being a useful player and as Brian points out, played a hell of a longer than I ever expected. I think it helped him in his late 30s having Dusty Baker as his manager...
He told a reporter that his son (one of the Giant batboys) asked him why he wasn't playing much anymore. Dunston told his kid: "Daddy's not a shortstop any more. Daddy's not an outfielder any more. Daddy's a teammate now."
I was at that game, though I wouldn't become a Chicago resident for several years after. I remember Trachsel angrily stomping around the mound when the Blue Angels distracted him mid-delivery.
Sosa also hit his 50th and 51st homers that game, the first time he'd reached 50+.
I guess the group of 4 never were directly over Wrigley, but very very close. There was a solo guy that kept going over.
That's pretty great. And suggests a refreshing level of self-awareness.
I always found Dunston likeable, partially because he clearly was busting his butt all the time, but even as a much younger fan I found him incredibly frustrating. I'd like to see his career replayed with the player development crew the Cubs now have in place as opposed to whatever they were doing in the '80s and '90s. (That Dunston had a ton of talent, seemed willing to work hard, but never really progressed beyond being just OK tells me the Cubs didn't know what they were doing, which would be of a piece with their failure to develop any position players better than freaking Doug Glanville and Geovany Soto between Grace and Castro.)
It's the time I have on file that they did it.
I don't know whether it was the first time, but I remember it because I was there (and Trachsel's reaction made it more memorable). I would say, if I had to guess, that they flew closer than they do now; perhaps they changed their dive patterns a bit in response to feedback from the Cubs?
He was particularly irritated when the next year's Air & Water Show caused a similar interruption three pitches later.
Heh... nicely done.
FTR -- I lay claim/blame for Baez/Dunston comparison and I do still like it -- with the original caveat that Baez is far smoother than Dunston and that Baez's more refined play (especially in the field) is why Baez is a lot more valuable than Dunston ever was - I'm just more of amazed that I don't recall the comparison being made before.
Maybe a better way to put it is that Dunston was like a pre-alpha of the beta release Baez.
It does "feel" like Zobrist has been a little better lately, but there really isn't a serious favorable cherry picking of his game log that really makes him look that much better. For the month, he's hitting .268/.359/.339, which outside of the power, is better than he's been this year.
Ok, I'm lying, a little, in his last 24 PA (7games, 4 starts), he's hitting .333/.417/.524.
Honestly, though, I'll take it. They've gotten plenty of power from elsewhere in the lineup lately. They just need Zobrist not to be an out machine. Take some walks, knock out some singles and a few doubles now and again, and I'm happy.
All of these are good things to hear.
As the Cubs hit a season-high ten games over .500 last night, the phrase "winning ugly" came to my mind.
Both guys got fooled by pitches but Dunston would bend over and reach out one-handed if he had to to try to make contact. If you've got two strikes that's fine (given you're fooled) but he'd do that whenever. As importantly, he'd take a "regular" swing at stuff out of the zone. It might be more embarrassing to miss a pitch by 18 inches but, unless it's strike 3, that's better than making contact with one 4 inches off the outside.
Dunston's value on the bases was more about his hustle rather than his steals (like Javy) but he was a pretty good basestealer. 131-48 from ages 22-28 which isn't great but was solid for its time. That's also brought down by a couple of pretty bad years of 13-11 and 19-11. But those are mixed in with 11-3, 12-3, 30-9, 25-5 and 21-6.
Dunston probably did make plenty of hard contact but at "bad" launch angles. He also would have made a ton of weak contact on all those pitches out of the zone. Or maybe not ... we have ratios from age 25 too and he was pretty much league average at everything HR%, K%, HR/FB, LD% ... except the disastrous walk rate and the high IF/FB rate ... and he was much more a FB hitter than I remembered. I'd bet those extra pop-ups were mainly the result of making contact with high fastballs out of the zone.
Man, Cabrera sure is having an off year.
Thank God for the reds.
Is there anyone in baseball more fun to watch than him?
The Cubs drafted Dunston in 1982 and the Cubs in that era found and developed position players.
Ryne Sandberg
Joe Carter
Mark Grace
Rafael Palmeiro
And though he was drafted by the previous regime, Mel Hall.
It's probably time to switch concerns from the Brewers to the Cardinals -- the Brewers are just 16-21 since the break, on their way to LA for three against the Dodgers, then get another four against the Nats week after next. They're going in the wrong direction and have far and away the toughest remaining schedule in the NLC. They had a really nice, surprising run -- I wish Harveys was around for it -- but I think they're out of gas and the road is getting rockier.
The Cards are 4 over since the break and have a crap ton of games left against the Giants, Padres, and Reds -- I think the Cubs and Brewers are the only teams left on their schedule that are and could even possibly have by the time they meet up, winning records.
If there's going to be September NLC chase -- it's gonna be the Cardinals as the team to worry about.
I dunno. The pitch to Votto was a terrible 91.2 mph changeup (at least that's what mlb.com called it) hanging belt high over the plate. The other two homers were off 98 mph fastballs in the strike zone. Looking at Fangraphs, his fastballs in the last two outings have the highest average speed he has shown in the last three years.
In both of those games, his job was to throw strikes and get the game over with. So he burned four-seamers in the strike zone, at one of the more formidable middles of the order in the league. The approach was very bad for his ERA, but it was what he needed to do, and I'm no more (or less) worried about him now than I was before.
Hate to nitpick, but the Cubs neither found nor developed Sandberg. He was stolen from the Phillies by Dallas Green and came over as a fully formed player. He never spent a day in the Cubs minor league system and amassed 3.1 WAR as a Cubs rookie.
Beyond Carter, Grace, and Palmeiro -- their stars shone far more briefly, but you also had guys like Rick Wilkins and Dwight Smith, who had their moments and would take a walk; as well as guys like Jerome Walton and Damon Berryhill (who wouldn't, but still had some productive years). There's also a Joe Girardi here, a Derrick May there.
It was the following Frey regime where scouting and player development went into hibernation -- the Green/Gold era was plenty fine at scouting and player development.
Prior era picks had their moments, but stagnated and precious few new picks came to pass - they hit on some rather lucky trades, but the successes (fleeting, '89 though they were) basically fumes of the prior front office.
Unfortunately, I don't think he's ever gonna be Vlad (by this age, Vlad had 150 and 146 OPS+ seasons).
It's not time yet - and won't be time next year - but I hope Thed and company keep Branch Rickey's old better a year too early than year too late maxim in their back pocket because I do think the time to sell on Baez is going to be sometime in the age 27-28 range, not sign him to an arb buyout and get his late 20s.
Of course, his glove brings enough that maybe even once he loses that almost imperceptible fraction of quickness with his swing -- and goes from being a 270/300/480 hitter to something like 220/240/380, maybe he's still worth keeping around.
Alluding back to Walt's comments on Dunston -- he's probably a guy well worth keeping a close eye on stuff like launch angle and exit velocity, even if the production lines don't immediately change - I suspect once you start seeing some small, but trending changes there, it could well get ugly (at least with the bat) in a hurry.
I wonder if the difference is that the Cubs gave up on trying to make him take pitches?
The biggest differences I see with Baez this year seem to be he appears to be not trying to pull the ball as much and has more hard hit balls, which is actually strange because it also looks like he's swung at more pitches outside the zone while also making less contact on those *and* pitches in the zone. He's just seeing slightly more pitches in the zone and somehow that appears to be enough? I dunno, maybe I'm reading all that wrong but that would seem to indicate maybe he's getting luckier this year than last; his BAbip is virtually the same and even though he's hitting slightly more fly balls his HRs on fly balls has gone way up; his line drive% has gone done and his ground ball% has gone up.
It is also interesting that he isn't seeing that many more breaking pitches than before, which again, from a scouting perspective you think he would.
That's not right though - 72.4% last year and 65.5% this year. Out of zone contact down to 50.8% from 62.4% and in zone contact down to 78.8% from 82.3%.
I was speaking broadly about effective Javier vs. historically awful Javier and not looking at distinctions between this year and last.
His strike percentage is about the same this year, but he has seen a huge decrease in the ratio of strikes looking:strikes swinging: 21.3%:22.8% in 2016; 17.8%:30.5% in 2017. His walk rate remains tiny but it has gone up since last year. None of this is bad. Obviously, if he swung at fewer strikes that are unhittably outside the strike zone, that would be a good thing.
Again, I think the main problem for him in terms of swinging and missing unhittable pitches is right-handed pitchers throwing him sliders very low and away (just like young Sammy Sosa). Eliminating that alone would make him much more valuable as a hitter.
Agreed. And if he eliminates it with steroids like Sammy did, he'll be even more valuable! ;)
Take out the 12 IBBs, and it's actually gone down - 2.67% to 2.05%.
He may not draw another walk this season! (point taken in 65)
Eh, rosters will probably have expanded by the time Willson is back.
I believe you're referring to Tim Federowicz, no?
retrosheet link to the lamp game. dude faces 25 batters k's 5 and only 35 pitches? how does that happen? no double plays. guys must have been first pitch swinging
Yeah, it's impossible. 5 Ks take a minimum of 15 pitches. That leaves 20 pitches for the other 20 batters. One taken pitch or foul ball to any of them and the math doesn't work.
Weirdly, what bbref DOES show is each K occurring on an 0-2 count, and every other batter seeing one pitch. I don't think so.
I got it by doing a Play Index search for fewest pitches from a winning pitcher who started the game.
He nearly threw one last year, though.
And if Rhys Hoskins played for the Yankees, we'd be assessing hiw HoF vote total with his induction already assured.
While also his fault, it's also something that's been quite a problem for him this year, and thus utterly predictable. I mean, first in all of baseball with 32 HR allowed.
Then again, Quintana has also shown a lack of ability to keep the ball in the yard.
Sounds like both Grimm and Russell are starting rehab assignments today.
I'm surprised. I thought Jolly Cholly was dead.
Happy b-day to him anyway!
Averaging 92.5 instead of 94 gives you less room for error in terms of command, but there are a lot of very successful pitchers who work at that velocity. As long as the sinker sinks and he can locate the off-speed stuff, he should be pretty damned good, as we have seen the last couple of months.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main