User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
Page rendered in 0.5338 seconds
41 querie(s) executed
You are here > Home > Hall of Merit > Discussion
| ||||||||
Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Monday, June 09, 20031902 Results - Dan Brouthers and Buck Ewing electedDan Brouthers and Buck Ewing have been elected to the Hall of Merit. Brouthers was the most overwhelming selection to date, garnering 39 of 42 first place votes, and is the first unanimous selection, in that he was named first or second on all ballots. Ewing (752.5) edged Jack Glasscock (704) and Charles Radbourn (658) in the balloting. It was the 2nd consecutive near miss for Glasscock who lost to George Wright by 21 points in the 1901 voting. With Cap Anson and Roger Connor coming on the ballot in 1903, it’s likely Glasscock will have to wait until 1904 for enshrinement. Hardy Richardson and Ezra Sutton were #5 and #6 for the second straight year. Joe Start made a run, jumping from 9th to 7th. He was tied for 7th with Al Spalding and won the tie-breaker 21-20 (higher placement on individual ballots). Start also jumped over Harry Stovey, who slipped to 11th, dropping from 50% of the possible points to 43%. Sam Thompson finished 9th in his first year of eligibility, and Pud Galvin jumped over Stovey and Bob Caruthers (who slipped to 13th), rounding out the top 10. RK LY Player Pts Ballots 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 n/e D.Brouthers 1005 42.0 39 3 2 n/e B.Ewing 752.5 42.0 12 9 6.5 7.5 2 2 1 1 1 3 3 J.Glasscock 704 42.0 7 11 7 4 2 3 2 1 4 1 4 4 C.Radbourn 658 41.0 3 4 7 5 4 3 5 3 1 2 2 1 1 5 5 H.Richardson 525 40.0 1 1 7 6 5 4 4 5 1 2 1 3 6 6 E.Sutton 510.5 37.0 2 2 7.5 3.5 3 4 2 3 1 1 2 2 3 1 7 9 J.Start* 495 36.0 5 2 3 1 4 2 3 4 2 2 2 2 2 2 8 7 A.Spalding 495 36.0 4 4 3 2 4 4 1 1 2 1 2 3 3 2 9 n/e S.Thompson 457 39.5 1 3 2 4 5 2 5 6 1 6 3 1.5 10 11 P.Galvin 440 35.0 2 5 3 2 1 4 2 3 7 2 2 2 11 8 H.Stovey 433 36.0 1 3 4 4 4 2 7 3 2 3 3 12 12 C.Bennett 374 34.0 1 1 2 4 4 3 5 3 1 6 1 3 13 10 B.Caruthers 313 25.0 2 1 4 1 4 4 2 2 1 1 3 14 14 C.McVey 302 27.5 2 3 3 1 4 1 4 3 2 1 3.5 15 13 P.Browning 244 25.0 1 1 1 3 2 2 8 2 2 3 16 15 E.Williamson 151 18.0 1 1 1 4 4 5 2 17 16 L.Pike 133 15.0 1 2 3 3 3 3 18 17 M.Welch 127 14.0 1 1 3 4 2 2 1 19 20 D.Pearce 72 8.0 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 20 18 J.McCormick 71 7.0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 21 19 F.Dunlap 59 8.0 1 2 1 4 22 21 T.Mullane 42 4.0 1 1 2 23 22 T.O'Neill 39 3.0 1 1 1 24 n/e G.Stovey 33 5.0 1 1 3 25 26 J.Whitney 26 2.0 1 1 26 24 C.Jones 13 2.0 1 1 27 25 D.Foutz 12 1.0 1 28T 28 B.Hutchison 10 1.0 1 29T 29 L.Meyerle 10 1.0 1 30T 27 B.Mathews 7 1.0 1 30T 31T T.York 7 1.0 1 32 -- T.McCarthy 6 1.0 1 Dropped out: Arlie Latham (23); Harry Wright (30); Dave Orr (31T); Oyster Burns (33). *won tie-breaker, 21-20. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head
Posted: June 09, 2003 at 11:45 PM | 15 comment(s)
Login to Bookmark
Related News: |
BookmarksYou must be logged in to view your Bookmarks. Hot Topics2024 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(188 - 5:44pm, Dec 07) Last: Howie Menckel 2024 Hall of Merit Ballot Ballot (4 - 3:10pm, Dec 07) Last: Jaack Hall of Merit Book Club (17 - 10:20am, Dec 07) Last: cookiedabookie Mock Hall of Fame 2024 Contemporary Baseball Ballot - Managers, Executives and Umpires (28 - 10:54pm, Dec 03) Last: cardsfanboy Most Meritorious Player: 2023 Results (2 - 5:01pm, Nov 29) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 2023 Ballot (12 - 5:45pm, Nov 28) Last: kcgard2 Most Meritorious Player: 2023 Discussion (14 - 5:22pm, Nov 16) Last: Bleed the Freak Reranking First Basemen: Results (55 - 11:31pm, Nov 07) Last: Chris Cobb Mock Hall of Fame Discussion Thread: Contemporary Baseball - Managers, Executives and Umpires 2023 (15 - 8:23pm, Oct 30) Last: Srul Itza Reranking Pitchers 1893-1923: Results (7 - 9:28am, Oct 17) Last: Chris Cobb Ranking the Hall of Merit Pitchers (1893-1923) - Discussion (68 - 1:25pm, Oct 14) Last: DL from MN Reranking Pitchers 1893-1923: Ballot (13 - 2:22pm, Oct 12) Last: DL from MN Reranking Pitchers 1893-1923: Discussion (39 - 10:42am, Oct 12) Last: Guapo Reranking Shortstops: Results (7 - 8:15am, Sep 30) Last: kcgard2 Reranking First Basemen: Ballot (18 - 10:13am, Sep 11) Last: DL from MN |
|||||||
About Baseball Think Factory | Write for Us | Copyright © 1996-2021 Baseball Think Factory
User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
|
| Page rendered in 0.5338 seconds |
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. Chris Cobb Posted: June 10, 2003 at 12:54 AM (#514180)Most overrated
Richardson -- I think I've underrated him
Thompson -- Overrated; more scrutiny will lower his position.
Caruthers -- I don't see the value others do, but he's hard to rate
Most underrated
Mickey Welch -- I'd like to see a more detailed comparison of him to Radbourn and Galvin
Harry Stovey -- Underrated; demonstrably better than Thompson
Cal McVey -- A documented career as good as George Wright.'s.
http://www.whatifsports.com/mlb/boxscore.asp?GameID=8870382&ad=1
Be sure to check the pitchcount for Al Orth. . .
McVey--I had him 7th, he came in 14th. I rate about 50/50 peak and career. Short career by today's standards but not by standards then--11 years going back to his time with the Cincy Red Stockings as (initially) an 18.5 year old phenom. We tend (IMHO) to overrate players with 20th century career profiles at the expense of some star players with 19th century career profiles. We see them too much on our terms rather than on their own. He was so much better than Deacon White it's incredible, he just didn't choose to hang on in that 20th century way.
Also Spalding--2nd vs. 8th--and Pike--11th vs. 17th. A couple more high peaks and, well, not even very short careers, just poorly documented pre-1871. Spalding was a star longer than Sandy Koufax or Dizzy Dean. Again, our terms, not theirs--that's how they're being evaluated.
Overrated
Sutton (I had him 19th vs. 6th) who was not very well regarded in his own time but has a nice 20th century profile to him.
Sorry, guys, that's how it looks to me.
Are there actual quotes that state he wasn't regarded favorably in his time or are you assuming this because of the "Ed Williamson is God" quotes right after "Ned" died?
Most overrated: Hardy Richardson. Slightly better offense than Sutton at an easier defensive position mix. He will be most overrated as long as he is rated above Sutton.
Of the 12 inductees so far, who was the least Meritorious?
Possible answers:
Ross Barnes: Finished in 4th place with only 68% of the vote. The lowest placement and percentage.
George Wright: Only inductee left off of two ballots altogether, and the one who has had to wait the longest (4 elections).
Tim Keefe: Lowest peak of the three inducted pitchers.
And, my answer:
Monte Ward: Great pitcher for a very short time, then merely an above average shortstop for a long time. I consider him "12th best" so far.
Most underrated: Tony Mullane
Most overrated: Technically I have Joe Start, but really I just don't have a handle on him. More likely Ezra Sutton.
Top electees by vote %:
Brouthers: 99.70
White: 94.40
Hines: 93.97
O'Rourke: 93.95
Clarkson: 90.00
Kelly: 84.01
Gore: 79.45
Keefe: 78.21
Wright: 76.19
Ewing: 74.70
Ward: 73.45
Barnes: 68.39
Top % vote getters among non-electees (min. 55%)
Glasscock: 73.69 (1901)
Glasscock: 69.84 (1902)
Radbourn: 66.07 (1901)
Radbourn: 61.35 (1898)
Richardson: 57.74 (1901)
Radbourn: 57.62 (1900)
H. Stovey: 55.11 (1899)
Lowest % vote getters among eventual electees:
Keefe: 64.52 (1899)
Wright: 67.88 (1899)
Barnes: 68.39 (1898)
Jack Glasscock is currently the only non-inductee to have received a higher percentage of votes than the lowest percentage inductee (Barnes).
I think the 20-19-...7-6 underlying is an even better innovation becuase the difference between, say, a #5 and a #15 is not 11-1 which it would be in a straight 15-14-...2-1 system. Rather a 16-6 differential is a better reflection of the value relationships that are at work. Good stuff, Joe and others who designed the voting.
I agree with Tom, though, that the difference between 15 and 30 is very small, and a penalty seems appropriate for a player who can't crack a Top 15 list.
Ward wasn't very happy with Glasscock, but Ewing was far worse in his eyes. I imagine Buck would have lost some votes if that information had been known at the time in 1902.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main