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Hall of Merit
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Tuesday, November 11, 2003

1913 Results - Bid McPhee elected

Bid McPhee has been elected to the Hall of Merit by the narrowest margin in the 16-year history of the voting.

McPhee defeated Cal McVey 751-747. The previous closest balloting was in 1906 when Al Spalding defeated Ezra Sutton 758-749.5. Sutton was elected in 1908. McPhee and McVey were separated by 8 points in the 1912 balloting.

Harry Stovey broke out of what had been a neck-and-neck battle with Charlie Bennett since 1909, to move solidly into 3rd place. Hugh Duffy moved into the #5 spot, while Sam Thompson leaped over Frank Grant and Jimmy Ryan into 6th place.

Newcomer Jake Beckley finished 9th, one point ahead of Lip Pike who rounded out the top 10 by passing George Van Haltren in the balloting.

Other first-year eligibles to receive votes were Lave Cross, who finished a disappointing 20th and Kid Gleason who finished tied for 39th.

Rk   LY Player            Pts Bal    1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
 1    3 Bid McPhee        751  40   16  5  6  4  1  1  1  1  1              2  2
 2    4 Cal McVey         747  40   13 11  2  4  1  1  2     1  2  2  1
 3    6 Harry Stovey      635  39    4  5  6  5  6  1  3  3  1  2     1  2
 4    5 Charlie Bennett   573  34    4  5  6  7  3     2  2  2     2  1
 5    7 Hugh Duffy        515  39       3  4     4  3  4  5  3  3  4  3     2  1
 6   10 Sam Thompson      488  34    2  2  1  4  3  6  2  4  2  2  1  2  3
 7    8 Frank Grant       394  30    1     2  2  4  3  3  1  2  5  2  1  1  2  1
 8    9 Jimmy Ryan        391  30       1  1  3  3  5  3  1  2  2  3  3  1  2
 9  n/e Jake Beckley      336  29          2     2  2  2  6  2  1  2  5     2  3
10   12 Lip Pike          335  22    1  2  1  4  2  5  1  2     1  2  1
11   11 George VanHaltren 329  27.5     1  1     3  5  2  1  2  2  2  2  2  1  3.5
12   13 Hughie Jennings   295  25.5  1  2  1  1        2  2  3  1  1  2  4  4  1.5
13   15 Dickey Pearce     260  20       1  2  1  2  1  2  1  5  1     1  1     2
14   17 Clark Griffith    220  21       1        1  2  1  1  1  4     4  2  3  1
15   14 Cupid Childs      218  20          1     1  1  1  2  2  3  3  1  1  1  3
16   18 Pete Browning     212  18             2     3  3  1  1  2  1  1     1  3
17   16 Mike Tiernan      200  20             1        2     3  2  1  3  5  2  1
18   19 Jim McCormick*    186  17             2  1  1  1     2  1  2  2  1  2  2
19   20 Bob Caruthers     186  14       3  2     1        1  1     3     2     1
20  n/e Lave Cross        177  18                1  1  1  1  2  2     1  4  2  3
21   22 Mike Griffin      131  13                      2  2  1     3     1  3  1
22   24 Charlie Jones     116  12                1        1     2  1  3  1  2  1
23   21 Mickey Welch      112  10          2     1        1           3     2  1
24   23 Joh McGraw         85   8             1              3           4
25   26 Tony Mullane       64   7                      1  1        1     1  1  2
26   25 Harry Wright       61   4          1     1     1  1
27   27 Ed Williamson      59   7                               1  1     3  2
28   30 Herman Long        48   5.5                       1     1        1  1  1.5
29   28 Deacon McGuire     43   5                               2     1        2
30   29 Jim Whitney        42   3          1  1                             1
31   31 Tip O'Neill        37   4.5                    1                    2  1.5
32   36 Fred Dunlap        21   2                   1                          1
33   34 Tommy Bond         17   2                               1              1
34   38 Tom York           14   2                                        1     1
35T  39 Bill Hutchison     11   1                               1
35T  -- Bobby Mathews      11   1                               1
37   37 Levi Meyerle       10   1                                  1
38   -- Noodles Hahn        8   1                                        1
39T  33 Billy Nash          7   1                                           1
39T n/e Kid Gleason         7   1                                           1
41   -- Kip Selbach         6   1                                              1
*won tiebreaker (ahead 15-10 on individual ballots)
Dropped Out: Duke Farrell (32), Jack Clements (35).

JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: November 11, 2003 at 03:02 PM | 38 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 11, 2003 at 03:10 PM (#518907)

Talk about a nail-biter!

2. Marc Posted: November 11, 2003 at 03:21 PM (#518909)

Well, it's my own damn fault. I've had McVey #1 for several weeks, but this week I jumped Bennett to #1 with McVey #2. Sorry, Cal.

3. Howie Menckel Posted: November 11, 2003 at 03:42 PM (#518910)

Nah, it's my fault. I had a lot of problems with McPhee getting in (at least this soon), yet had him near the top of my ballot. Every life affects another life, just like "It's a Wonderful Life" said!!

4. favre Posted: November 11, 2003 at 06:08 PM (#518912)

Out of curiousity, how many total ballots were there? I pretty sure it wasn't forty, since McPhee and McVey were left off a couple.

5. EricC Posted: November 11, 2003 at 06:10 PM (#518913)

Congratulations to Bid McPhee, from Massena, NY, hometown of my father. Don't forget to vote for Jim Deshaies when he becomes eligible, to keep McPhee from being lonely. :-)

6. Marc Posted: November 11, 2003 at 06:29 PM (#518914)

I counted 42 ballots total. McPhee missed 2 (on which McVey was rated #1 and #7 for 38 points) and McVey also missed 2 (on which McPhee was rated #1 and #1 for 48 points). Howie, it was their fault!

7. MattB Posted: November 11, 2003 at 09:10 PM (#518916)

Let's not get all feel-good mushy here.

It's Marc's fault, and he know it and no matter how we try to cover it up for him, he is going to have to live with the shame all of him days.

Take it like a man, Marc.

:-)

8. Marc Posted: November 11, 2003 at 09:15 PM (#518917)

I'm not the one making excuses. I shoulda had McOyVey #1 and His McBidNess off the damn ballot where he belonged. Just so you know my faves now are McVey, Bennett and Big Sam. So it looks like I better keep Stovey and Duffy the hell off my ballot. Fool me once...won't get fooled again (paraphrasing a man who always gets his way, no, actually, that's a direct quote).

9. karlmagnus Posted: November 11, 2003 at 09:21 PM (#518918)

We're not supposed to do tactical voting; I had McUseless #15 instead of off the ballot where he belonged so I too am responsible. Anyway, unless there's a huge surge of enthusiasm for a newbie (biggest danger is Kelley, who looks indistiguishable from the outfield glut to me, but may do well on some bizarre metric) McVey should be in good shape for '14. Collins is McPhee minus, Fielder Jones is glut minus and McGinnity does badly on the metrics, even though IMHO a better pitcher than Rusie.

10. Howie Menckel Posted: November 11, 2003 at 09:51 PM (#518919)

Karl,
a LOTTA tongue in cheek going on in here today...

11. Marc Posted: November 11, 2003 at 10:06 PM (#518920)

karl might have had tongue in cheek, too. In any event, I think he meant strategic voting. Maybe not.

12. karlmagnus Posted: November 11, 2003 at 10:28 PM (#518921)

Tongue firmly in cheek, as before we started this project I had heard of only 1/3 of the 15 players on my 1913 ballot (Thompson, Duffy, Wright, Griffith and oddly enough Grant.) My tendency to stand up and salute when I see a player I've REALLY heard of (McGinnity, Wee Willie Keeler) may become apparent going forward!

I mean whichever of tactical and strategic voting is the sneaky one.

Entire exercise most interesting, and great fun. Thank you, Joe and other inventors!

13. 185/456(GGC) Posted: November 12, 2003 at 02:39 AM (#518922)

Guys, I've been following your project here and there over the past year. I put in a good word for you over at my blog. It probably won't get you much exposure, but I just wanted to show my appreciation.

14. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: November 12, 2003 at 06:20 PM (#518924)

From the Useless Statistics Dept:

I did my own count of the votes this week (which I don't usually do), and I decided to do some comparisons for similarity, or lack thereof, between ballots. What I did was simply to sum up the difference in points for each candidate. So if John has McVey 2nd (19) and Dan has McVey 5th (16), that's 3 points, and you just add them all up. And here's some results, first compared to the voters as a whole:

Compared to a "Consensus Ballot" - Mcphee 1st, McVey 2nd, Stovey 3rd, stopping at 15th:

Most Similar:
1st - DanG (66)
2nd - Esteban Rivera (72)
3rd - Michael D (78)
4th - RMc (80)
5th - Ron Wargo/Andrew Siegel/favre (84)

Least Similar:
42nd - Mark McKinniss (256)
41st - Clint (238)
40th - yest (202)
39th - KJOK (188)
38th - Brian Hodes (178)

Compared to an Average Ballot (Total points/42)
Most Similar:
1st - DanG (99.8)
2nd - Esteban Rivera (101.6)
3rd - Andrew Seigel (109.2)
4th - Sean Gilman (110.6)
5th - Patrick W (112.1)

Least Similar:
42nd - Mark McKinnis (242.4)
41st - Clint (203.4)
40th - yest (196.1)
39th - Jim Spencer (185.2)
38th - KJOK (184.1)

And now, for the individual comparisons (B means the comparison is the most similar for both voters):
Most Similar to DanG is Sean Gilman (60)B
Most Similar to favre is Esteban Rivera (66)B
Most Similar to Devin McCullen is favre (72)
Most Similar to Howie Menckel is DanG (76)
Most Similar to Rob Wood is Michael D (80)B
Most Similar to Joe Dimino is Patrick W (80)B
Most Similar to Andrew Seigel is Sean Gilman (84)
Most Similar to RobC is Patrick W (84)
Most Similar to TomH is Ron Wargo (84)B
Most Similar to OCF is Michael D (88)
Most Similar to Philip is TomH (96)B
Most Similar to RMc is Esteban Rivera (98)
Most Similar to RickA is Esteban Rivera (98)
Most Similar to John Murphy is JustinB (100) B
Most Similar to Al Peterson is Esteban Rivera (100)
Most Similar to redsox1912 is Sean Gilman(102)
Most Similar to MattB is JeffM (104) B
Most Similar to Adam Schaefer are DanG and Michael D (104)
Most Similar to Carl Goetz is Chris Cobb (106)B
Most Similar to jimD is Patrick W (112)
Most Similar to Marc is Carl Goetz (116)
Most Similar to Ken Fischer is RMc (118)
Most Similar to dan b is Michael D (124)
Most Similar to Rusty Priske is Ken Fischer (130)
Most Similar to Yardape is Rusty Priske (132)
Most Similar to yest is Brian Hodes (136) B
Most Similar to karlmagnus is Esteban Rivera (144)
Most Similar to EricC is favre (144)
Most Similar to Clint is Brian Hodes (156)
Most Similar to Jim Spencer is Rob Wood (158)
Most Similar to KJOK is Andrew Siegel (158)
Most Similar to Mark McKinnis is Brian Hodes (204)

Least Similar:
Okay, pretty much the answer is "Mark McKinnis". That's not entirely true, but for 24 out of 42 voters, it is, so I'm not going to list it for everyone. Here are some of the most dissimilar pairs (the largest possible score is 398):
Mark McKinnis and Jim Spencer (310)
Mark Mckinnis and EricC (310)
Mark McKinnis and Devin McCullen (302)
Mark McKinnis and KJOK (294)
Mark McKinnis and Marc (292)
Mark McKinnis and favre (292)
dan b and Marc (292)

The lowest least similar score for a voter belongs to Michael D, with a 232 for (surprise!) Mark McKinnis.

15. OCF Posted: November 12, 2003 at 07:03 PM (#518925)

So I'm not in the top 5 for being similar to a consensus ballot, but my most similar (Michael D) is. So I must not be too far out of the mainstream.

16. DanG Posted: November 12, 2003 at 07:28 PM (#518927)

I've never been more proud.

Proud of what?

17. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 12, 2003 at 07:34 PM (#518928)

I've never been more proud.

LOL

18. Howie Menckel Posted: November 12, 2003 at 07:48 PM (#518930)

Hmm.
I'm most similar to the most similar guy on the board.
But I'm not ANYONE's most similar, and I'm not terribly similar to a consensus ballot, either.

19. DanG Posted: November 12, 2003 at 08:11 PM (#518931)

Proud of people missing the tongue in my cheek.

Ohh, I get it. So, your ballots aren't really serious!?!

20. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 12, 2003 at 08:31 PM (#518932)

Ohh, I get it. So, your ballots aren't really serious!?!

Dan (unless I'm missing the tongue in your cheek), Mark was being facetious about the honor of having the least similar ballot.

21. DanG Posted: November 12, 2003 at 08:38 PM (#518933)

You missed it, John. I was being facetious about the makeup of Mark's ballot.

22. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 12, 2003 at 08:43 PM (#518934)

Gotcha, Dan. :-)

23. Marc Posted: November 12, 2003 at 09:16 PM (#518935)

I was being facetious about being facetious about being facetious. Ouch! My tongue!

Thanks Devin, fun stuff! And thank goodness for Carl Goetz, he is one really smart dude.

24. Rick A. Posted: November 12, 2003 at 10:02 PM (#518936)

Devin,

Nice work. One question, though

<i>(B means the comparison is the most similar for both voters)
...

Most Similar to TomH is Ron Wargo (84)B
...
Most Similar to Philip is TomH (96)B

I suppose that the second 'B' shouldn't be there, since the most similar to TomH can't be both Ron and Philip.

25. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: November 12, 2003 at 11:06 PM (#518937)

Yeah, that was a goof. I'm missing somebody, then. Hang on...

26. Marc Posted: November 12, 2003 at 11:20 PM (#518938)

Howie, don't try to figure it out. I am among the most dissimilar to the most dissimilar voter, and yet I am not most similar to anybody. And, I am among the most dissimilar to Mark and the most dissimilar to danb, but Mark and danb are not that similar. Ouch, my brain.

I also can't figure out the difference between a consensus ballot and an average ballot...? Devin?

27. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: November 12, 2003 at 11:20 PM (#518939)

Found it...
Most Similar to ed is Michael D (80) (so Michael D has a tie for his Most Similar)
The rankings are OK.

I had counted it up before, saw I was one short, and somehow decided that the Philip-Tom H match was a 2-fer.

Oh, and for the people who were wondering: Howie Menckel ranked 8th or 9th, and OCF was 14th or 15th. I probably should have just picked one and listed everybody, but I couldn't decide which way was better. And it does make a difference for some people - RMc goes from 4th to 13th, and Sean Gilman goes from 12th to 5th.

28. Esteban Rivera Posted: November 12, 2003 at 11:30 PM (#518940)

Ah, Devin, I think you missed listing my most similar.

29. Sean Gilman Posted: November 13, 2003 at 08:10 PM (#518941)

Finally able to sim the HOM game. . .
In honor of Cal McVey and Bid McPhee's close close race, we've got the Cincinnati Reds against the Chicago Cubs, Larry Cheney vs. Red Ames:
http://www.whatifsports.com/mlb/boxscore.asp?GameID=11512942&ad=1

30. Marc Posted: November 13, 2003 at 08:23 PM (#518942)

Sean, shouldn't Cheney's line be 3R on 8H? And if so, might you want to consider, say, Zimmerman or Schulte for player of the game?

31. MattB Posted: November 13, 2003 at 08:25 PM (#518943)

Looks like the difference in that game was Heinie Zimmerman's 2 for 5 with a homer amd 2 runs scored trumped Heinie Groh's 0 for 5.

32. sean gilman Posted: November 13, 2003 at 09:48 PM (#518944)

WIFS doesn't seem to count unearned runs when it hands out the player of the game.

33. Marc Posted: November 13, 2003 at 09:52 PM (#518945)

Sean, 2 of the 3 runs may have been unearned. But Cheney still gave up 8 hits, while his line on the site only shows 3 Reds hits given up. It appears that for some reason or other, the site made not just an odd player of the game selection but did it on completely erroneous data tabs.

34. Sean Gilman Posted: November 13, 2003 at 10:28 PM (#518946)

I see his line as 8.3 IP 8 H 3 R 1 ER 1 BB 2 SO 0 HR 103 PC. . .dunno where it says he gave up only 3 hits. . .

35. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: November 13, 2003 at 10:44 PM (#518947)

Esteban, your most similar is favre at 66. That's what the B is for.

36. Marc Posted: November 13, 2003 at 11:03 PM (#518948)

Never mind. My bad.

37. Esteban Rivera Posted: November 14, 2003 at 03:08 AM (#518950)

Thanks Devin. I should have figured it out. :)

38. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 07, 2004 at 11:59 PM (#957117)

This thread is fully restored now.

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Tuesday, November 11, 2003

1913 Results - Bid McPhee elected

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