BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: 1920 Results

Hall of Merit
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Tuesday, February 24, 2004

1920 Results - Walsh elected in first try

Big Ed Walsh has been elected to the Hall of Merit in his first year of eligibility. While being far from unanimous (Walsh received 17 of 46 first place votes) Walsh easily outpointed the top returning vote-getting, Jimmy Collins (who finished 2nd) 822-687.

In a bit of a surprise, Charlie Bennett closed the gap on Collins from 80 to 37 points. Two players will be elected in 1921.

Newcomer Bobby Wallace edged Joe McGinnity for 4th place, 581-577. Jimmy Sheckard finished 6th, Frank Grant and Sam Thompson moved past Bob Caruthers into 7th & 8th place. Caruthers’ roller coaster ride continues. This year he fell off 3 ballots and lost 73 points (there was one fewer voter in the election, he received 35 votes last year, 31 this year). Hughie Jennings moved past Rube Waddell and Lip Pike into 10th place.

Also noteworthy is the leap made by Hugh Duffy, who jumped from 18th to 12th. He picked up 43 points despite there being one fewer voter, as he was named on 3 additional ballots.

RK   LY  Player             PTS Bal     1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
 1  n/e  Ed Walsh           822  44    17  6  4  3  5  1  1     2  1  1  1     2
 2    3  Jimmy Collins      687  45     3  8  8  1  5  1  1  4  3  3  4  1  2  1
 3    4  Charlie Bennett    650  37.5  11  6  2  2  2  3  3  1  1  2     2  1  1  0.5
 4  n/e  Bobby Wallace      581  39.5   3  3  2  7  4  5  3  1  2  1  2  2     3  1.5
 5    5  Joe McGinnity      577  40     2  4  6  2  2  6  3  4  1  1  2  2  1  2  2
 6    6  Jimmy Sheckard     480  35        2  2  3  1  7  5  5  2  3  1  2     2
 7    8  Frank Grant        473  35        3  5  3  3  3  3  1  2  2  1  2  5  1  1
 8    9  Sam Thompson       438  33     1  4  2  1  5  1  3  4     1  1  4  1  1  4
 9    7  Bob Caruthers      422  31     4  2  4  2  2  1     1        3  4  3  2  3
10   12  Hughie Jennings    345  27        2  3  3  1  2  1  2  2  1  3  2  1  1  3
11   10  Rube Waddell       330  27           2  4  2  1  2  2  2  1  3  1  4  1  2
12   18  Hugh Duffy         300  23           1  3  3  2  1  4  2  3  1     1     2
13   11  Lip Pike           296  22     2  1  2  3        4        1  3  2  1  1  2
14   13  George Van Haltren 288  26              2  1  1  2  3  1  3  3  4  3  3
15   15  Jake Beckley       279  24        1     1  1  2  4  1  2  2  5     1     4
16   16  Dickey Pearce      272  19     2     1  2  4           2  4  4
17   14  Jimmy Ryan         255  23              1  1  1  2  1  4  4  1  2  5     1
18   17  Clark Griffith     229  23                 1     2  1  2  3  2  3  6  2  1
19  n/e  Bill Monroe        227  23.5            1  1        2  4  2  1  1  4  2  5.5
20   20  Cupid Childs       144  15        1                       5     3  1  5
21   19  Pete Browning      143  11        1  1        1  1  2  3        1        1
22   24  Vic Willis*         97  11                    1              2  3  1  3  1
23   21  Frank Chance        97   8                 2  1        2  1     1        1
24   23  Mickey Welch        94   7        2           1  1     1           1  1
25   22  Addie Joss          90   7                    2  1  1  2        1
26   25  Jim McCormick       70   8                       1     1     1        4  1
27   27  Charley Jones       66   5           1        1  1        1        1
28   29  John McGraw         58   5     1                    1                 3
29   32  Fielder Jones       44   5                             1     1     1  2
30   28  Ed Williamson       43   5                          1           1  1  1  1
31   30  Harry Wright        40   3              1           1        1
32   26  Sol White           38   3              1     1                          1
33   31  Lave Cross^         26   3                          1                 1  1
34   37  Tony Mullane        26   2.5                  1                    1     0.5
35   33  Herman Long         18   2                             1                 1
36   38T Jim Whitney         14   1                       1
37T  35  Tom York            13   1                          1
37T  38T Denny Lyons         13   1                          1
39   40  Levi Meyerle        12   1                             1
40   --  Mike Griffin        11   1                                1
41   41T Deacon Phillipe      9   1                                      1
42   36  Roy Thomas           7   1                                            1
43T  34  Mike Tiernan         6   1                                               1
43T  43  Cy Seymour           6   1                                               1
43T  46  Silver King          6   1                                               1
43T  --  Bobby Mathews        6   1                                               1
43T  --  Deacon McGuire       6   1                                               1
*won tie-breaker (9-7 on individual ballots), ^won tie-breaker (3-2.5 total votes)
Dropped Out: Jimmy Williams (41T), Fred Dunlap (44T), Harry Davis (44T).

JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: February 24, 2004 at 08:56 AM | 13 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. Dag Nabbit: Sockless Psychopath Posted: February 24, 2004 at 01:36 PM (#522401)

In a bit of a surprise, Charlie Bennett closed the gap on Collins from 80 to 37 points.

In 1919 Collins had 4 1st place & 9 2nd place votes. This year he had three 1st place votes. I'd reckon that Collins's diminished lead to Bennett would be due to the bump in points given to the top two slots in a two-player election year & the single top slot in a one player election year. Seeing as how this is a 2-man election year & 8 people voted for Collins in 3rd (as opposed to only 2 for Bennett) I think his lead is secure for the time being.

2. karlmagnus Posted: February 24, 2004 at 02:04 PM (#522402)

That's two of the last 3 years in which someone entirely off my ballot has been elected. This discovery of mysterious "Merit" in these short and not especially distinguished careers puzzles me.

Still, it will save me some mental contorting in 1926; I would normally have had to make assumptions about Jackson and Cicotte's later careers to justify putting them on the ballot, but Jackson had more (and MUCH better) career than Flick and Cicotte had about 10% more career than Walsh, just about equally good (he's the one whose HOF chances were REALLY ruined by the Black Sox scandal; as a knuckleballer, he'd almost certainly have gone on long enough to win 300, at which point he'd have gone in easily. Now Jackson will probably go in some day, but I've heard no campaign to induct Cicotte.) So in 1926 expect my ballot to have Jackson #1 (or at lowest #2 to Caruthers) and Cicotte around #8-12.

3. Marc Posted: February 24, 2004 at 03:37 PM (#522403)

My new theory is that if you take "bonus slots" minus "left off ballots," you can pretty clearly see who is going to get elected. e.g.

Collins--his 11 1sts and 2nds will all again be "bonused" and let's say half of his 3rds also move up to 2nds with Walsh off the ballot. That's 15 "bonus positions" (1sts and 2nds) next time minus zero; he was not left off any ballots. For a final score of +15.

Bennett stands to get 18 bonus positons next year but to miss 7 ballots for a score of +11. So I agree that Collins should go in at number one in 1921.

Wallace is at 7-5=2.

4. DanG Posted: February 24, 2004 at 04:44 PM (#522406)

Marc, I like the new theory, "bonus slots" minus "left off ballots." A couple other points to consider.

1) According to the tally above, there were 46 ballots cast, not 45. Meaning Collins was left off a ballot. Unless the tally is wrong again.

2) Additional reasons why McGinnity should pass Bennett is that the competition on the ballot favors this. Walsh pulled votes from Joe and Caruthers, they should get back near to 1919 support. Bresnahan will pull votes from Bennett, especially by the timeline voters. Grant also figures to decline somewhat as Johnson seems to be the new favorite. (Personally, I try to avoid positional over-representation downgrading, but it seems to be fairly common.)

That said, Bennett has been steadily gaining notice. His left-off ballot totals have decreased for three straight elections, from 13 in 1917, then 12, 11 and 8. His personal low is six, last reached in 1911; there are about a half dozen hard-core EOCB.

Another thing to watch is the OF glut. The next four elections add nobody to the glut. (Crawford is clearly above the glut, Leach is not really an OF.) Until Magee comes on in 1925, we'll rehash Sheckard, Thompson, Duffy, Van Haltren, Ryan.

5. OCF Posted: February 24, 2004 at 05:00 PM (#522407)

There were 46 ballots, and Collins was left off a ballot (#113, yest). Everyone was left off at least some ballot or ballots. Walsh was left off two (Rusty Priske and karlmagnus).

6. Marc Posted: February 24, 2004 at 05:39 PM (#522408)

Darn, I missed that silly little first place vote for JJMcGruff yet again!

7. Sean Gilman Posted: February 24, 2004 at 06:09 PM (#522409)

This year's HOM Game features the Babe Ruth and the New York Yankees and Tris Speaker and the Cleveland Indians. Carl Mays starts for the Yankees, with Stan Coveleski throwing for the Indians.

8. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 24, 2004 at 07:07 PM (#522410)

Though he should have waited a few more years, Walsh is an excellent choice. I only wish I had come to that conclusion before I submitted my ballot. :-)

So far, Joe Kelley is the only "mistake," IMO. In other words (is this what IOW means when I see it here sometimes), we're doing damn good!

9. DanG Posted: February 24, 2004 at 07:17 PM (#522411)

I agree John; Walsh should not have been first ballot. Perhaps the old "Novelty Boost" occurred, since half the voters had him #1 or #2.

10. Marc Posted: February 24, 2004 at 07:30 PM (#522412)

Guys, I don't think 14 1sts and 135 points can be explained as a "novelty boost."

Walsh went in so easily because we are indeed into a weak period. Collins' numbers just do not match his rep, and with guys like Wallace and Sheckard near the top, we are not going to be electing all Type A and B HoMers for awhile. But then look down to about #10--Jennings and Waddell have been there the past two weeks. Neither of them is the worst Cooperstown HoFer, neither of them would be a "bad" choice here. So I'm not in the least embarrassed to be electing a Type C HoFer/HoMer. It's a numbers game or an alphabet game or something. As Bill James has said, Babe Ruth and Ted Williams were never the standard.

11. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 24, 2004 at 07:33 PM (#522413)

Walsh should not have been first ballot. Perhaps the old "Novelty Boost" occurred, since half the voters had him #1 or #2.

Walsh was certainly not the dreaded "no-brainer" (definition: high peak and career value).

In the end, though, it really doesn't matter: he belongs.

12. karlmagnus Posted: February 25, 2004 at 12:24 AM (#522415)

What time of year do we play the HOM game? Before August 17, I presume, otherwise that was a very remarkable game indeed.

13. Paul Wendt Posted: February 26, 2004 at 04:08 AM (#522416)

[reprinted from the 'deadball' yahoo group, 14 Feb 2004]

To August 16

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Tuesday, February 24, 2004

1920 Results - Walsh elected in first try

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