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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Thursday, April 08, 20041923 Results: Wagner Second Unanimous WinnerHonus Wagner has become the second player to receive every first place vote (48), joining Cy Young (elected in 1917) as a member of this select group. Part of one of the strongest first-year eligible classes ever, Sam Crawford (908 points) and Eddie Plank (799) finished 2nd and 3rd. The top returning candidate, Mordecai Brown slipped from 3rd to 4th. Grant Johnson and Joe McGinnity also held their relative positions when compared to the returnees, slipping to 5th and 6th, respectively. Frank Grant moved past Bobby Wallace into 7th place. Jimmy Sheckard finished 9th and Sam Thompson rounded out the top 10. Rk LY Player Pts Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 n/e Honus Wagner 1152 48 48 2 n/e Sam Crawford 908 48 45 1 2 3 n/e Eddie Plank 799 47 26 9 6 3 1 1 1 4 3 Mordecai Brown 597 44 5 3 5 7 6 5 2 3 1 3 1 2 1 5 4 Grant Johnson 580 40 2 8 4 11 7 1 2 1 1 1 2 6 5 Joe McGinnity 512 40 1 6 4 3 2 5 5 3 5 2 2 1 1 7 7 Frank Grant 458 35.3 3 6 3 7 4 3 2 2 3 2 .3 8 6 Bobby Wallace 448 36 3 4 2 1 5 5 3 1 3 1 3 4 1 9 8 Jimmy Sheckard 394 32.5 2 3 6 1 3 5 2 4 1 2 1 2.5 10 9 Sam Thompson 367 29 1 5 3 1 2 3 3 3 4 1 3 11 10 Bob Caruthers 330 28 2 2 3 2 3 1 1 2 4 2 3 3 12 16 Dickey Pearce 259 19 1 1 6 2 1 2 2 2 1 1 13 17 Lip Pike 236 18 4 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 14 12 Jake Beckley 222 22 2 1 4 2 4 3 2 2 2 15 13 Hughie Jennings 220 21 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 1 5 2 16 19 Jimmy Ryan 214 23 2 1 1 2 2 2 1 2 6 4 17 11 Rube Waddell 205 19 1 1 2 1 7 2 4 1 18 18 George Van Haltren 201 19 4 2 2 2 1 3 2 2 1 19 15 Hugh Duffy 179 17.5 3 2 1 1 3 2 3 1 1.5 20 14 Roger Bresnahan 174 19.5 1 1 1 1 2 2 6 5.5 21 n/e Rube Foster 138 12 2 1 3 1 2 1 2 22 20 Clark Griffith 123 14 1 2 1 1 2 1 3 3 23 22 Pete Browning 121 11 1 1 1 1 3 2 1 1 24 21 Bill Monroe 83 8.5 1 1 1 1 2 1 1.5 25 24 Mickey Welch 79 7 1 1 2 2 1 26 23 Tommy Leach 77 9 1 2 2 1 1 2 27 26 Cupid Childs 58 6.3 1 1 1 1 1 1.3 28 29 Charley Jones 54 6 1 2 1 2 29 27 Addie Joss* 52 6 2 3 1 30 25 Frank Chance 52 6 1 1 1 1 2 31 33 John McGraw 45 4 1 1 2 32 34 Lave Cross 36 4 1 2 1 33 31 Ed Williamson 32 4 1 1 2 34 30 Jim McCormick 26 3 1 1 1 35 35 Harry Wright 24 2 1 1 36 n/e Johnny Evers 21 2 1 1 37 28 Vic Willis 14 1 1 38 36 Fielder Jones 13 2 1 1 39 37 Jim Whitney 12 1 1 40 40 Silver King 9 1 1 41 41T Fred Dunlap* 8 1.3 1.3 42 32 Herman Long 8 1 1 43T 41T Sol White 6 1 1 43T -- Charlie Buffinton 6 1 1 * - won tie-breaker Dropped Out: Tony Mullane (38), Denny Lyons (39), Fred Dunlap (41T), Deacon Phillippe (44). JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head
Posted: April 08, 2004 at 07:43 AM | 14 comment(s)
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1. Marc Posted: April 08, 2004 at 02:47 PM (#523667)Oh, my! Look at two of my old faves--Pike and Pearce--moving up 5 slots each! Too bad they're still below the magic number of backloggers (8 to 10) who seem slotted in to win in the drought years through 1932! If my calc. are correct, the backloggers who stand to get elected are unchanged except for one minor change of order--Crawford, Plank, Brown, Johnson, McGinnity, Grant, Wallace, Sheckard, Thompson, Caruthers. If only eight make it, scratch Big Sam and Parisian Bob. Actually you could say that 1924 will NOT really be a backlog year either the way it is setting up.
If there is one thing I would urge re. the backlog it is that everybody take one more good long look at HR Johnson, Frank Grant and Bill Monroe. I'm not convinced that Johnson is the right guy though all three have been and are likely to continue to be on my ballot, at least for a while.
In the OF I really believe we've got the right guys. At pitcher, I'm a peak guy and Plank doesn't do well, but still I can hardly complain about 326 career wins. And Wallace... I like Bobby but if it came down to him as the very tenth and last backlogger in 1932, I obviously would go with Pearce, Pike or Jennings.
But seriously, at least read back through the Negro League thread and see what you think about Johnson, Grant and Monroe. I think Monroe got slighted a bit.
Interesting that the guys moving up are old-timers and Negro Leaguers, while the guys moving down are more recent 20th century major leaguers. We seem to still have a tendency to overrate guys in their first ballot year and then to correct.
I think a better way to look at it is that support among timeliners will necessarily be weak, since each year will bring in new players who played more recently, so will deserve knock down last years' players. Non-timeliners don't care about that, so let their top picks stay on top. No one who is voting for Pike and Pearce timelines to any significant extent, so they will not drop down. The Wallace and Sheckard voters who have a stronger timeline will drop them down each time a comparable player comes by who played 5 or 10 years later.
I wasn't reading closely, but I recall that one voter omitted him by accident and then corrected.
Well, um, er, ah, that was me. I'll put something on the pitcher's thread about that, but he looks like a shoo-in in '24 regardless, and I won't complain. He is a legit choice. But I'm more of a peak/prime guy and by my method he trails Brown, McG, Caruthers and others.
If we're going to go to a registration site within the next week or so, I'd wait until then.
Joe used to create a thread after very election, but it's been a while since the last one.
BTW, Dickey Pearce is still making his inexorable climb to the top!
Well, maybe not after every election, but I could go with the unanimous, or near unanimous, selections
1. SAM CRAWFORD, RF. .686 OWP, 401 RCAP, 10,596 PA?s. Def: AVERAGE.
2. MORDACAI BROWN, P. 295 RSAA, 282 Neut. Fib. Wins, 138 ERA+. Certainly benefited from good defense behind him, but '06-'10 Cubs were the BEST EVER at preventing runs, and I think some people are forgetting that fielding measures are MUCH LESS ACCURATE than batting ones, so pitchers probably deserve SOME of that credit too! Better pitcher than Walsh, Radbourn, & Galvin.
3. EDDIE PLANK, P. 278 RSAA, 288 Neut. Fib. Wins, 122 ERA+.
4. JOHN McGRAW, 3B. .727 OWP. 459 RCAP. 4,909 PAs. Def: AVERAGE. Similar to Lajoie except only 60% of RCAP, but 60% of Lajoie is still excellent. He didn?t have a long career, but he?s being discounted for low playing time way too much as he provided more value in those few appearances than all of his contemporary 3rd baseman. When he retired, he ranked 12TH all-time in Plate Appearances by 3rd basemen:
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