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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Thursday, June 10, 20041927 Results - Negro Leaguer Elected for 3rd Consecutive YearJoe Jackson overcame his first-year boycott and Pete Hill became the 3rd Negro Leaguer elected to the Hall of Merit, joining Grant Johnson and Frank Grant. After being left off 27 ballots in 1926 (presumably for his role in the 1919 Black Sox scandal), Jackson was only missing on 3.5 ballots for 1927, and he easily won the election with 875 points. Hill was elected in his first year of eligibility, edging out Joe McGinnity and Bobby Wallace. Jimmy Sheckard, Sam Thompson, Bob Caruthers, Dickey Pearce and Lip Pike finished 5-9, repeating their finish from 1926. Jake Beckley rounded out the top 10. RK LY Player PTS Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 10 Joe Jackson 875 45.5 17 7 5 3 2 2 3 1 2 1 1 1.5 2 n/e Pete Hill 706 45 1 9 5 1 6 3 4 6 3 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4 Joe McGinnity 663 43.5 4 2 6 6 5 4 2 5 1 2 2 2 2.5 4 3 Bobby Wallace 625 36.5 6 5 3 5 6 2 1 2 3 1 1 1.5 5 5 Jimmy Sheckard 591 37 2 5 4 5 5 7 1 2 3 1 1 1 6 6 Sam Thompson 539 35 1 6 5 4 1 3 4 2 3 2 2 2 7 7 Bob Caruthers 494 33 3 5 1 2 3 3 2 1 1 2 4 1 3 2 8 8 Dickey Pearce 470 30 5 3 3 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 2 2 1 9 9 Lip Pike 434 30 4 2 3 2 2 3 2 2 2 1 3 1 2 1 10 11 Jake Beckley 377 27 1 3 4 3 3 4 1 1 2 1 2 1 11 12 George Van Haltren 354 27 1 1 2 2 2 1 2 3 2 2 1 1 4 2 2 12 13 Jimmy Ryan 322 26 3 2 1 2 3 5 3 1 2 1 2 1 13 14 Rube Waddell 278 24 1 1 3 2 2 4 2 3 2 1 1 2 14 16 Hughie Jennings 252 21 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 3 1 2 4 1 2 15 17 Clark Griffith 243 22 1 1 2 2 6 1 2 1 4 2 16 15 Roger Bresnahan 237 22 1 3 1 1 3 4 5 1 3 17 19 Bill Monroe 222 21 1 3 4 2 1 1 3 1 1 4 18 18 Hugh Duffy 220 20 2 3 1 2 1 4 1 3 3 19 20 Rube Foster 192 16 1 1 2 1 4 3 2 1 1 20 21 Mickey Welch 189 14 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 21 26 Larry Doyle 162 13 3 1 1 1 2 2 1 2 22 23 Pete Browning 161 12 1 2 2 1 1 1 2 1 1 23 22 Cupid Childs 157 15 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 5 2 24 24 Tommy Leach 142 15 1 3 2 1 1 2 1 4 25 30 Eddie Cicotte 128 12 1 1 1 3 1 1 4 26 25 Gavy Cravath 123 12 1 2 2 1 1 2 3 27 27 Charley Jones 114 9 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 28 28 Ed Williamson 103 12 1 2 1 1 1 4 2 29 29 Addie Joss 66 6.5 1 1 2 2 .5 30 34 Fielder Jones 64 7 1 2 3 1 31 n/e Ed Konetchy 61 6 1 1 1 1 1 1 32 33 Frank Chance 59 6 2 1 1 1 1 33 32 John MGraw 56 4 1 1 1 1 34 31 Vic Willis 52 6 1 1 1 1 2 35 37 Jim McCormick 31 4 2 1 1 36 36 Tommy Bond 29 2 1 1 37 40 Herman Long 27 3 1 1 1 38 38 Lave Cross 25 2 1 1 39 39 Mike Tiernan 23 3 1 1 1 40 42 Silver King 16 2 1 1 41 45T Levi Meyerle* 15 2 1 1 42 41 Tom York 15 1 1 43T 43 Tony Mullane 8 1 1 43T 44 Ray Chapman 8 1 1 45 35 Harry Wright 7 1 1 46T -- Jimmy Williams 6 1 1 46T -- Johnny Evers 6 1 1 *won tie-breaker, ahead on individual ballots, 2-1 Dropped out: Joe Tinker (45T), Fred Dunlap (47).
JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head
Posted: June 10, 2004 at 03:53 PM | 36 comment(s)
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1. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: June 10, 2004 at 04:07 PM (#668870)This year's shaping up as a pretty obvious one; I suspect Baker will get support between the levels of Hill and Jackson. Not overwhelming, but a whole lotta top 8 votes giving plenty to get in. And McGinnity has a pretty commanding lead now on the 2nd slot for 1928.
Interesting to me is that Sheckard is gaining on Wallace. Could make for an exciting 1929 election.
Yeah Michael, if we had to do it again, I'd say we make a rule than anyone banned for life isn't eligible until he's 45 years old. Really it's a no-brainer if you ask me. That would have made Jackson eligible for the 1935 election.
Actually, I didn't send one in this time because I left off a ballot (imagine that!) and couldn't find it.
But thanks anyway, Joe! :-)
Anyway . . .
By my rough could he HoM now has exactly 50 inductees.
Positionally, the most represented is pitcher (12.5) and left fielder (7.5) and the least represented is third baseman (2.5) and Catcher and centerfielder (3.5 each).
Looking at the HoM by year, the best represented year among HoMers in 1890 (27 HoMers playing at least half time) and 1892 (26). There were at least 20 for each year between 1880 and 1894. There were about half that many (8-11) for the 1870s, climbing to 16 in 1879, 15 in 1880 and 20 in 1881. There is not much deviation from 18 between 1895 and 1905, and after 17 in 1908 there is the expected tailing off as many will-bes are still on the ballot or not yet eligible.
If you were putting together an All-Star team for the National League for each year from 1901-1910, you would only have HoMers at three positions, tops: pitcher (Mathewson, Nichols), shortstop (Davis, Dahlen, Wagner) and left field (Magee, Clarke). The other six positions in the AL (C, 1B, 2B, 3B, CF, RF) are HoMerless and look to remain so for a while. Electees from the AL have been a little more spread out.
12.5--P
3.5---C
5.0---1B
4.5---2B
6.5---SS
2.5---3B
7.5---LF
3.5---CF
4.5---RF
Looks like a fairly normal distribution to me, although I think the electorate has been too hard on Bresnahan and Williamson, which would help the biggest deficits.
15.5 OF
14 IF (2B, SS, 3B)
12.5 P
4.5 1B
3.5 C
This is pretty equitable. OF is a little ahead -- P & C are a bit behind. If, as seems most likely, we elect Baker and McGinnity in 1928, that will improve balance, though OF seems likely to pull ahead again a bit after that. Views of balance will be heavily influenced by views about the number of pitchers that ought to be included: I see them as meriting representation about equal to outfielders and high-defense infielders, so I think we're pretty close to right.
That 1929 election's gonna really wide open.
I can't see an argument for leaving Baker off the ballot next week, so maybe we'll have one player on all the ballots for '28.
Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and the 1927 Yankees vs. Ty Cobb, Eddie Collins, Zach Wheat, Mickey Cochrane, Lefty Grove, Al Simmons, Max Bishop and Jimmie Foxx and the 1927 Philadelphia A's. (Tris Speaker would replace Baby Doll Jacobson on the bench in '28).
I think I had some pretty good "HOM representation" charts, and if they ever fix the damn site, I'll update 'em...
What years would we call Hill a regular (more than half team's games), or a part-timer (more than 10, fewer than half), or token (fewer than 10 G)?
Ever a teammate with the other Negro Leaguer electees?
Ever a teammate with the other Negro Leaguer electees?
Reprise of what I posted on 1926 results thread:
Pete Hill was active and full-time from 1899-1921. He broke in with a top team in 1901. He was a part-time player/manager 1922-25. He was never a teammate of Frank Grant. He and Grant Johnson were teammates in 1905-06 on the Philadelphia Giants and in 1910 on the Chicago Leland Giants.
I would list Hill as
full time, 1901-1921
part time, 1921-24
token, 1925
His "major-league equivalent" seasons would be a bit different, but this is my best reconstruction of how much he was actually playing in the best league available to him.
I think I had some pretty good "HOM representation" charts, and if they ever fix the damn site, I'll update 'em...
Joe, Any way we can get a read-only cache of the old pages? That might eliminate the obstacle of converting the old threads into the new format...
I've been meaning to ask you: Are there any pitchers from Rube Foster's time that are comparable to him. I'm trying to find out where he belongs among the McGinnity's, Waddells, etc., for career and peak. Thanks!
Do you mean among black ballplayers or white ballplayers or both?
What specifically are you looking for?
Both.
20-yr old Joe Jackson appears in 20 games, Elmer Flick (age 34) plays in 24, and Cy Young goes 7-10 at age 43. Nap Lajoie does have a very good year at age 35.
Cleveland finishes fifth at 71-81. Addie Joss goes 5-5, Roger Peckinpaugh (age 19) gets 15 games in, and Deacon McGuire (age 46) makes a token appearance.
50 HoMer Position Breakdown
C – 2.8 – (all)Bennett__(1/2)Ewing-White__(1/3)McVey-Kelly
3b – 3.2 – (all)Collin__/(3/4)Sutton__(1/3)White-Davis__(1/6)Richardson-Anson-Ewing
cf – 4.6 – (all)Gore__(3/4)Hines-Hill__(2/3)Hamilton__(1/3)O’Rourke__(1/6)Kelley-Crawford-Delahanty
rf – 4.9 – (all)Keeler-Flick__(3/4)Crawford__(2/3)Kelly__(1/2)Jackson__(1/4)McVey__(1/6)Stovey
2b – 5.0 – (all)McPhee-Lajoie-Grant__(3/4)Barnes__(1/2)Richardson__(1/4)Johnson-Ward
1b – 5.4 – (all)Start-Brouthers-Connor__(3/4)Anson__(1/2)Stovey__(1/4)McVey-Ewing__(1/6)Kelley
ss – 5.9 – (all)Glasscock-Wright-Dahlen)__(3/4)Wagner-Johnson__(1/2)Davis-Ward__(1/4)Barnes__(1/6)Sutton
lf – 6.1 – (all)Clarke-Burkett__(3/4)Magee__(2/3)Delahanty-Kelley__(1/2)Jackson__(1/3)O’Rourke-Stovey__(1/4)Richardson-Hill-Hamilton
P – 12.2 – (all)Clarkson-Keefe-Rusie-Radbourn-Spalding-Galvin-Nichols-Young-Walsh-Mathewson-Plank-Brown__(1/4)Ward
Is Eddie Collins the one to break that streak?
Walter Johnson will beat him by a year.
What specifically are you looking for?
I'm just talking about all the information that was truncated in the conversion. The old tables Howie was talking about. Other interesting research. Read-only images would be fine.
Hill and Van Haltren did this in 1927, Caruthers and Thompson in 1926. Prior to this it had not been done since Wallace in 1921.
Previously, 14 to 16 players had appeared on at least half of the ballots in each election. This year only 12 did.
He might have quietly let it be known that if we elected Jackson, MLB would sever all ties with the HOM. That wouldn't intimidate us, but could possibly set in motion the establishment of a rival HOF with a different electorate (in Cooperstown maybe ;-).
Quinn-PHA 1883-07-05 (43)
Nixon-PHI 1886-04-11 (41)
Blackburne-CHW 1886-10-23 (40)
Sommers-BOS 1886-10-30 (40)
Schang-STL 1886-12-07 (40)
Cobb-PHA 1886-12-18 (40)
Alexander-STL 1887-02-26 (40)
Collins-PHA 1887-05-02 (40)
Rudolph-BSN 1887-08-25 (39)
Johnson-WSH 1887-11-06 (39)
Williams-PHI 1887-12-21 (39)
Speaker-WSH 1888-04-04 (39)
Wheat-PHA 1888-05-23 (39)
Hartley-BOS 1888-07-02 (38)
Mogridge-BSN 1889-02-18 (38)
Coveleski-WSH 1889-07-13 (37)
... and that's with the boycott year. Add Merkle, Austin & BAdams for 1926.
2 reasons:
1. Players from the losing team are almost never the player of the game. It's one of the many flaws with the POG formula they have.
2. Grove gave up a lot more hits and walks and the same amount of runs as Hoyt did.
That Philly lineup wasn't too shabby either. And only 8 reached base against Hoyt in 9 IP (as opposed to 16 Yanks reaching base against Grove in 10 IP).
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