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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Tuesday, October 12, 20041936 Election Results: Alex the Great and Smokey Joe Strike Out Their Hall of Merit Competition!With an almost unanimous 99.4% of the votes, star hurler Pete Alexander was elected to the Hall of Merit in his first year of eligibility. In his third year of eligibility, Negro League pitching great Smokey Joe Williams finally broke through by being selected for the second “elect me” spot. Williams broke Pop Lloyd’s one-year record for achieving the highest percentage of votes without being the top vote getter (94.8%). Newbie Harry Heilmann had an extremely strong third place showing and should be elected with Negro League slugger (and fourth place finisher) Cristóbal Torriente in 1937. The remaining top-ten returnees were Heinie Groh, Stan Coveleski, Jake Beckley, Max Carey, Lip Pike and George Van Haltren. RK LY Player PTS Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1 n/e Pete Alexander 1193 50 43 7 2 3 Smokey Joe Williams 1138 50 7 41 1 1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 3 n/e Harry Heilmann 835 50 1 17 21 2 1 5 1 1 1 4 4 Cristóbal Torriente 826 49 25 11 5 4 2 1 1 5 5 Heinie Groh 486 41 1 5 5 7 2 5 2 2 2 2 6 2 6 6 Stan Coveleski 485 40 2 3 4 7 7 2 2 2 5 2 3 1 7 7 Jake Beckley 360 28 1 3 2 5 5 1 1 2 6 1 1 8 9 Max Carey 338 30 3 4 3 1 2 4 4 3 4 2 9 8 Lip Pike 334 26 2 7 1 2 2 3 3 2 1 1 2 10 13 George Van Haltren 279 25 3 3 2 3 2 3 3 2 4 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 11 10 Rube Waddell 271 25 2 1 1 2 4 5 1 3 3 2 1 12 11 Hughie Jennings 271 23 2 1 1 3 1 2 2 2 1 1 3 4 13 12 Clark Griffith 266 23 2 3 4 1 2 3 1 2 2 1 2 14 n/e George Sisler 259 23 1 2 2 2 4 1 4 1 1 2 3 15 14 Mickey Welch 259 20 1 4 2 1 2 3 1 1 4 1 16 15 Pete Browning 235 18 1 4 4 2 1 1 2 1 1 1 17 16 Cupid Childs 219 21 1 1 1 2 2 1 2 3 2 5 1 18 17 Hugh Duffy 204 19 1 2 2 2 1 2 1 5 2 1 19 18 Roger Bresnahan 187 20 2 2 1 1 4 3 2 5 20 19 Jimmy Ryan 186 17 1 1 2 4 3 2 1 3 21 21 Tommy Leach 164 16 2 2 4 4 2 2 22 20 José Méndez 136 13 1 1 2 3 1 2 1 2 23 22 Charley Jones 110 9 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 24 24 Bill Monroe 98 10 1 3 1 1 1 3 25 23 Larry Doyle 91 8 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 26 25 Harry Hooper 87 9 1 2 1 1 1 1 2 27 27 Ben Taylor 73 7 2 1 1 1 2 28 32 John McGraw 60 5 1 1 2 1 29T 31 Addie Joss 54 6 1 1 1 1 1 1 29T 26 Carl Mays 54 6 1 1 2 1 1 31 29 Bobby Veach 49 5 1 1 2 1 32 28 Spotswood Poles 48 4 1 2 1 33 33 Urban Shocker 45 6 1 3 2 34 37 Vic Willis 43 5 1 2 1 1 35 30 Gavy Cravath 39 3 1 1 1 36 35 Fielder Jones 38 4 1 1 1 1 37 34 Frank Chance 38 3 1 1 1 38 38 George J. Burns 34 4 1 1 1 1 39 39 Ed Williamson 33 4 1 1 1 1 40 36 Ed Cicotte 33 3 1 1 1 41 40 Lave Cross 27 2 1 1 42 42T Wilbur Cooper 21 3 1 2 43 n/e Dave Bancroft 19 3 1 2 44T 42T Fred Dunlap 19 2 1 1 44T 44T Ray Schalk 19 2 1 1 46 47T Tommy Bond 14 1 1 47 46 Donie Bush 13 1 1 48 56T Mike Griffin 12 2 2 49T 47T Sam Leever 10 1 1 49T 49T Tom York 10 1 1 51 56T Jim McCormick 9 1 1 52 53T Tony Mullane 7 1 1 53T n/e Dobie Moore 6 1 1 53T n/e Roy Thomas 6 1 1 Dropped Out: Bingo DeMoss(44T), Duke Farrell(51T), Silver King(53T), Ed Konetchy(41), Bruce Petway(53T), Mike Tiernan(56T), Ross Youngs(49T), Jules Thomas (51T).
Thanks to OCF and Don for double-checking the results! John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy
Posted: October 12, 2004 at 01:34 AM | 30 comment(s)
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1. Mark Shirk (jsch) Posted: October 12, 2004 at 02:08 AM (#911023)He is on the list. The ballot counter inserted Jules Thomas instead of Roy. I'll have that fixed in a jiffy.
True.
1881-84 Buffalo NL: White O'Rourke Brouthers Richardson Galvin
1884-86 Chicago NL: Gore Kelly Clarkson Anson
1886-88 Detroit NL: White Brouthers Richardson Bennett Thompson
1887-89 New York NL: Gore O'Rourke Ward Keefe Ewing Connor
1911-13 New York Linc Gia: HR Johnson Santop Lloyd Williams
Next year will be interesting for two things:
- Who finishes 1, who finishes 2? Close race between the two outfielders
- Can Reding and/or Schang get into the race, or even beat out, Groh/Coveleski for the next "in position" slots? Or will they be dropped into the post Coveleski dropoff/backlog.
the HOM Game for 1936 features the New York Yankees and The Boston Red Sox.
The Yankees star possible future HOMers Joe Dimaggio, Lou Gehrig, Bill Dickey, Tony Lazzeri, Grandma Johnny Murphey and starting pitcher Red Ruffing. The Sox counter with Jimmie Foxx, Joe Cronin, Rick Farrell and starter Lefty Grove.
Rough positional chart. Each player is assigned to a single, dominant position, unless he played a very large percentage of his games at a secondary position. Then, he is split 50/50 between the two positions. There are currently 67 inductees
Pitcher (18.5, 28%): Alexander, Brown, Caruthers, Clarkson, Foster, Galvin, Johnson, Keefe, Mathewson, McGinnity, Nichols, Plank, Radbourn, Rusie, Spalding, Walsh, Young, Williams (half of Ward)
Catcher (4.5, 7%): Bennett, Ewing, Santop (half of Kelly, McVey, White)
First Base (5, 7%): Anson, Brouthers, Connor, Start (half of McVey, Stovey)
Second Base (5.5, 8%): Barnes, E.Collins, Grant, Lajoie, McPhee (half of Richardson)
Shortstop (9.5, 14%): Dahlen, Davis, Glasscock, HR Johnson, Lloyd, Pearce, Wagner, Wallace, Wright (half of Ward)
Third Base (3.5, 5%): Baker, J.Collins, Sutton (half of White)
Left Field (9.5, 14%): Burkett, Clark, Delahanty, Kelley, Magee, O'Rourke, Sheckard, Wheat (half of Hill, Richardson, Stovey)
Center Field (5.5, 8%): Cobb, Gore, Hamilton, Hines, Speaker (half of Hill)
Right Field (5.5, 8%): Crawford, Flick, Jackson, Keeler, Thompson (half of Kelly)
Conclusion: Fairly good balance. Ideally, Jimmy Sheckard and Bobby Wallace would have both played third base.
Alexander (1) Majority opinion
Williams (1) Rusty Priske, Michael Bass, Al Peterson, Philip, Patrick W., Howie Menckel
Heilmann (2) Dolf Lucky
Torriente (3) Majority opinion
Groh (4) John Murphy
Coveleski (4) Thane of Bagarth
Beckley (4) karlmagnus, Buddha, jhwinfrey
Carey (4) Rusty Priske, Brad G, Patrick W
Pike (3) Thane of Bagarth
Van Haltren (5) OCF, Ron Wargo, Patrick W
Waddell (5) Al Peterson, Dolf Lucky
Jennings (3) sunnyday2, jimd
Griffith (5) TomH
Sisler (2) yest
Welch (3) Don F
Browning (4) Sean Gilman
Childs (3) John Murphy
Duffy (4) Brent
Bresnahan (6) Brian H
Ryan (6) OCF
Leach (8) Dan G
Mendez (5) Brent
C. Jones (4) Rick A
Monroe (6) Dr. Chaleeko
Doyle (5) Jim Sp
Hooper (7) robc
Taylor (8) Thane of Bagarth, robc
McGraw (3) KJOK
Mays (10) jhwinfrey
Joss (9) yest
Veach (9) robc
Poles (5) Dr. Chaleeko
Shocker (12) Dolf Lucky
Willis (10) John Murphy
Cravath (7) Buddha
Chance (5) Brian H
F. Jones (9) Patrick W
Burns (8) mdb1mdb1
Cicotte (8) karlmagnus
Williamson (11) jimd
Cross (6) robc
Cooper (12) Dr. Chaleeko
Dunlap (9) jimd
Schalk (12) yest
Bancroft (14) sunnyday2
Bond (7) sunnyday2
Bush (8) Dolf Lucky
Griffin (15) Michael Bass, Al Peterson
(below here only candidates with exactly one vote)
Leever (11) karlmagnus
York (11) John Murphy
McCormick (12) jhwinfrey
Mullane (14) Ron Wargo
D. Moore (15) Thane of Bagarth
Roy Thomas (15) jschmeagol
G2G...cya l8r Urban.
Not to nitpick or anything, but here's who I have for some best friends.
Coveleski (4) Thane of Bagarth
and EricC.
Beckley (4) karlmagnus, Buddha, jhwinfrey
Beckley (3) PhillyBooster
<i>Carey (4) Rusty Priske, Brad G, Patrick W
Carey
Beckley (3) PhillyBooster
As the license plates say, "You've got a Friend in Pennsylvania"!
Beckley (3) PhillyBooster
Corrections noted.
and Sean Gilman
Griffith (5) TomH
and Joe Dimino
Bresnahan (6) Brian H
and EricC
Leach (8) Dan G
and SWW
- Who finishes 1, who finishes 2? Close race between the two outfielders<i>
That's going to be disproportionately affected by the few people who place one of them low. A large number of voters who put them 3rd and 4th last year will have them 1st and 2nd this year. As you can see, those voters lean a little in Torriente's direction - but the difference between 1st and 2nd is only 1 point. The fact that both of them will be collecting "elect me" bonuses from most people will increase the importance of those who place one of them low, or (in one case) off the ballot altogether. Based on that, one would predict that Heilmann will be #1.
In the long run, it won't matter, since both Torriente and Heilmann will be elected easily.
In PHoM--Harry Wright (1914), Charley Jones (1921), Ed Williamson (1924), Cupid Childs (1925), Hughie Jennings (1927), Lip Pike (1928), Tommy Bond (1929), Rube Waddell (1932), Heinie Groh (1933)
In HoM--Ezra Sutton, Jim Galvin, Harry Stovey, Willie Keeler, Joe Kelley, Eddie Plank, Pete Hill, Jimmy Sheckard, Zack Wheat.
I have 3.5 more IFers and 3.5 fewer OF-1B. I would put in a word for a couple more IFers with Childs, Jennings and Groh being the best available at each position, IMO. With Torriente and Heilmann poised to go in (and they are my PHoMers this year), it would be great if Groh and Coveleski (not my next choice but OUR next in line) went in before any MORE OFers. Roush is certainly as deserving as a Stovey or a Kelley, but not at the expense of some IFers.
Plank (1938) and probably Wheat (sometime in the '40s) will make my PHoM before I am born. Not clear if any of the other HoM/not PHoM ever will.
I get sent to some playoff chat link.
Total ballots cast: 226 Necessary for election: 170
Name Votes PCT
*Ty Cobb 222 98.23
Babe Ruth 215 95.13 (HOM eligible '41)
*Honus Wagner 215 95.13
*Christy Mathewson 205 90.71
*Walter Johnson 189 83.63
*Nap Lajoie 146 64.60
*Tris Speaker 133 58.85
*Cy Young 111 49.12
Rogers Hornsby 105 46.46 (HOM eligible '41)
Mickey Cochrane 80 35.40 (HOM eligible '43)
George Sisler 77 34.07
*Eddie Collins 60 26.55
*Jimmy Collins 58 25.66
*Pete Alexander 55 24.34
Lou Gehrig 51 22.57 (HOM eligible '44)
Roger Bresnahan 47 20.80
*Willie Keeler 40 17.70
Rube Waddell 33 14.60
Jimmie Foxx 21 9.29 (HOM eligible '51)
*Ed Walsh 20 8.85
*Ed Delahanty 17 7.52
Pie Traynor 16 7.08 (HOM eligible '41)
Frankie Frisch 14 6.19 (HOM eligible '43)
Lefty Grove 12 5.31 (HOM eligible '47)
Hal Chase 11 4.87
Ross Youngs 10 4.42
Bill Terry 9 3.98 (HOM eligible '42)
Johnny Kling 8 3.54
Lou Criger 7 3.10
*Mordecai Brown 6 2.65
Johnny Evers 6 2.65
Frank Chance 5 2.21
Al Simmons 4 1.77 (HOM eligible '46)
Ray Schalk 4 1.77
John McGraw 4 1.77
Edd Roush 2 0.88 (HOM eligible '37)
Chief Bender 2 0.88
*Joe Jackson 2 0.88
Bill Bradley 1 0.44
*Fred Clarke 1 0.44
*Frank Baker 1 0.44
Dazzy Vance 1 0.44 (HOM eligible '41)
Gabby Hartnett 1 0.44 (HOM eligible '47)
*Sam Crawford 1 0.44
Jake Daubert 1 0.44
Dizzy Dean 1 0.44 (HOM eligible '46)
Kid Elberfeld 1 0.44
Rube Marquard 1 0.44
Charlie Gehringer 1 0.44 (HOM eligible '48)
Connie Mack 1 0.44
Nap Rucker 1 0.44
'*' indicates a HOMer elected through 1936.
Note that as yet there is no rule prohibiting votes for active players, though that will quickly become the convention, eventually a rule. The players that were not yet HOM eligible but received HOF votes have all been elected since, with the exceptions (as of 1967) of Traynor, Roush, and Dean.
1. Sisler (14)
2. Alexander (1)
3. Roger Bresnahan (19)
4. Rube Waddell (11)
5. Hal Chase, lol
6. Ross Youngs (--)
7. Johnny Kling (--)
8. Lou Criger (--)
9. Johnny Evers (--)
10. Frank Chance (37)
11T. Ray Schalk (44T)
11T. John McGraw (28)
13. Chief Bender (--)
Had to include Joe Jackson, why this bad, considering Chase?
14T. Bill Bradley (--)
14T. Jake Daubert (--)
14T. Kid Elberfeld (--)
14T. Rube Marquard (--)
14T. Connie Mack (--)
14T. Nap Rucker (--)
No BBWAA votes, we elected later: Heilmann, Groh, Coveleski, Carey, Pike, Jennings.
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