User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
Page rendered in 0.3871 seconds
41 querie(s) executed
You are here > Home > Hall of Merit > Discussion
| ||||||||
Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Tuesday, December 07, 20041940 Ballot Results: Bullet Joe Rogan and Lip Pike Are the Latest Hall of Merit Enshrinees!In his first year on the ballot, Kansas City Monarch pitching and hitting star Bullet Joe Rogan was elected with 79% of the votes to win the first spot this “year.” With a record low percentage of the votes for an inductee (40%), perennial candidate Lip Pike squeaked past Joe Sewell to take the second spot. One of the very first baseball professionals, Pike waited a record 43 “years” until his ultimate election (he was one of the Hall’s very first candidates in 1898)! Rounding out the top ten were returnees Eppa Rixey, Hughie Jennings, Clark Griffith, George Sisler, Jake Beckley, Tommy Leach (his first time with this group) and George Van Haltren. RK LY Player PTS Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 n/e Bullet Joe Rogan 978 47 22 9 4 2 2 3 1 3 1 2 3 Lip Pike 496 26 7 5 5 3 1 2 1 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3 4 Joe Sewell 483 35 3 4 4 1 4 2 1 1 3 3 2 3 4 4 6 Eppa Rixey 463 35 4 2 3 3 3 4 1 3 1 2 2 4 3 5 5 Hughie Jennings 421 25 5 1 4 4 3 1 1 2 2 1 1 6 7 Clark Griffith 411 29 2 2 3 2 1 3 3 4 4 1 2 1 1 7 8 George Sisler 406 30 1 3 1 3 3 2 2 2 2 1 5 2 1 2 8 9 Jake Beckley 402 27 2 3 1 1 3 4 2 3 2 1 1 2 2 9 13 Tommy Leach 352 28 4 2 1 3 5 4 4 1 1 1 2 10 11 George Van Haltren 345 22 1 5 1 1 3 2 2 2 1 1 1 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11 10 Rube Waddell 339 26 1 1 1 1 2 3 1 5 6 2 1 1 1 12 16 Hugh Duffy 300 22 1 2 2 2 1 3 3 3 2 1 2 13 14 Mickey Welch 297 16 4 4 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 14 n/e John Beckwith 284 23 1 2 1 4 1 1 3 2 1 2 5 15 15 Pete Browning 281 20 2 3 1 3 3 1 1 5 1 16 12 Cupid Childs 276 22 1 1 1 3 3 1 1 2 2 1 5 1 17 17 Edd Roush 268 22 1 2 4 1 1 4 1 3 2 3 18 18 Cannonball Dick Redding 249 22 1 1 3 3 3 3 3 3 1 1 19 n/e Burleigh Grimes 230 19 2 3 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 4 20 22 Wally Schang 192 16 1 1 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 1 1 21 23 Larry Doyle 190 14 1 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 22 19 Roger Bresnahan 187 17 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 2 1 2 1 2 23 20 José Méndez 185 17 2 3 1 1 1 3 1 3 2 24 n/e Sam Rice 184 14 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 25 21 Charley Jones 173 12 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 26 24 Jimmy Ryan 161 13 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 2 1 27 27 Harry Hooper 149 13 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 4 1 28 25 Bill Monroe 147 14 2 1 1 3 1 2 3 1 29 26 Bobby Veach 113 9 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 30 28 George J. Burns 100 9 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 31 29 Vic Willis 92 10 1 1 1 1 2 3 1 32 31 Dobie Moore 90 10 1 1 2 2 2 2 33 33 Fielder Jones 77 7 1 1 1 2 1 1 34 32 John McGraw 74 5 1 3 1 35 30 Carl Mays 70 7 1 1 1 1 1 2 36 34 Ben Taylor 70 6 1 1 1 1 1 1 37 n/e Hack Wilson 68 5 3 2 38 39 Gavy Cravath 63 5 1 1 1 1 1 39T 35 Frank Chance 62 7 1 1 2 3 39T 36 Urban Shocker 62 7 1 1 2 1 1 1 41 40 Wilbur Cooper 58 5 1 1 2 1 42 37T Ed Cicotte 50 5 1 1 1 1 1 43 41 Spotswood Poles 48 4 1 1 1 1 44 37T Rabbit Maranville 39 4 1 1 1 1 45 45 Ed Konetchy 38 4 1 1 1 1 46 42 Addie Joss 37 4 1 1 1 1 47 43 Ed Williamson 28 3 1 2 48 56T Del Pratt 27 2 1 1 49 56T Jim McCormick 26 2 1 1 50 44 Dave Bancroft 24 3 1 1 1 51 47T Lave Cross 24 2 1 1 52 n/e Dolf Luque 21 2 1 1 53 49 Ray Schalk 19 2 1 1 54 46 Jack Quinn 18 2 1 1 55 51T Donie Bush 18 1 1 56T 47T Tommy Bond 17 1 1 56T 51T Fred Dunlap 17 1 1 58 54T Tom York 14 1 1 59 54T Sam Leever 13 1 1 60 50 Jack Fournier 12 1 1 61 59 Ross Youngs 9 1 1 62 n/e Duke Farrell 6 1 1 Dropped Out: Mike Griffin(58), Tony Mullane(60), Mike Tiernan(53).
John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy
Posted: December 07, 2004 at 01:10 AM | 62 comment(s)
Login to Bookmark
Related News: |
BookmarksYou must be logged in to view your Bookmarks. Hot TopicsMock Hall of Fame 2024 Contemporary Baseball Ballot - Managers, Executives and Umpires
(15 - 2:42pm, Nov 28) Last: cardsfanboy Most Meritorious Player: 2023 Ballot (11 - 11:21am, Nov 28) Last: DL from MN 2024 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (169 - 1:15pm, Nov 26) Last: kcgard2 Most Meritorious Player: 2023 Discussion (14 - 5:22pm, Nov 16) Last: Bleed the Freak Reranking First Basemen: Results (55 - 11:31pm, Nov 07) Last: Chris Cobb Mock Hall of Fame Discussion Thread: Contemporary Baseball - Managers, Executives and Umpires 2023 (15 - 8:23pm, Oct 30) Last: Srul Itza Reranking Pitchers 1893-1923: Results (7 - 9:28am, Oct 17) Last: Chris Cobb Ranking the Hall of Merit Pitchers (1893-1923) - Discussion (68 - 1:25pm, Oct 14) Last: DL from MN Reranking Pitchers 1893-1923: Ballot (13 - 2:22pm, Oct 12) Last: DL from MN Reranking Pitchers 1893-1923: Discussion (39 - 10:42am, Oct 12) Last: Guapo Reranking Shortstops: Results (7 - 8:15am, Sep 30) Last: kcgard2 Reranking First Basemen: Ballot (18 - 10:13am, Sep 11) Last: DL from MN Reranking First Basemen: Discussion Thread (111 - 5:08pm, Sep 01) Last: Chris Cobb Hall of Merit Book Club (15 - 6:04pm, Aug 10) Last: progrockfan Battle of the Uber-Stat Systems (Win Shares vs. WARP)! (381 - 1:13pm, Jul 14) Last: Chris Cobb |
|||||||
About Baseball Think Factory | Write for Us | Copyright © 1996-2021 Baseball Think Factory
User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
|
| Page rendered in 0.3871 seconds |
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. Dag Nabbit: Sockless Psychopath Posted: December 07, 2004 at 01:54 AM (#1001891)Who's now the best hold-over from the '98 ballot?
My powers of persuasion are obviously, uh, less-than-stellar. I stump for three guys (Bresnahan, Chance, McGraw) this ballot, and they all fall backwards in the voting. My strategy for next week is to 'convince' y'all how worthless Clark Griffith is :)
"WhooHoo!"
ROGAN
1920-29 KC MON (all fulltime?)
(not list him as part-time OF in 1934-35; barnstorming doesn't count, right?)
PIKE
1866 - PHI ATH
1867-68 - NY MUT
1869-70 - BKN ATL
1871 - TRO
1872-73 - BAL
1874 - HAR
1875-76 - STL
1877 - CIN
1878- CIN (PRV)
1881 - (Wor 5 G)
1887 - (Ny aa 1 G)
Are any of the early Pike years only part-time or token?
It's been a lot easier since Evan created the ballot counters for us. I salute him!
That doesn't really hold a candle to the John Murphy/Dickey Pearce or karlmagnus/Bob Caruthers stories, but I'm still a happy camper right now!
He played a considerable amount of games for those early clubs, Howie.
For Rogan, I included his stint with the All Nations club in 1917 since it was considered a strong club. I also mentioned his stint with the Army on his plaque, but not at the top.
1. Lip Pike 13,399
2. Sam Thompson 12,349
3. Charlie Bennett 11,503
4. Bob Caruthers 10,704
5. HUGH DUFFY 10,692
6. G VAN HALTREN 10,661.5
7. HUGHIE JENNINGS 10,338
8. JAKE BECKLEY 9867
9. PETE BROWNING 9727.5
10. Harry Stovey 9576
ACTIVE PTS LEADERS
1. HUGH DUFFY 10,692
2. G VAN HALTREN 10,661.5
3. HUGHIE JENNINGS 10,338
4. JAKE BECKLEY 9867
5. PETE BROWNING 9727.5
6. JIMMY RYAN 9326
7. CLARK GRIFFITH 8193
8. RUBE WADDELL 8103
9. CUPID CHILDS 7441
10. MICKEY WELCH 7287
(Bresnahan 5205, Leach 3970, Williamson 3963, C Jones 3931, McCormick 3086)
There never really was a "mouthpiece" for Pike like I was for Pearce and karlmagnus for Caruthers. He was just in the right place at the right time this election (which is fine by me :-)
"WhooHoo!"
Yeeha!
I don't particular advocate advocacy, but in putting the Lipster in an elect-me spot about 10 times I admit that I grew attached to him. Hi, my name is David, and I'm and FOLP!
Ahhh... what a relief!
What do you mean? Looks right to me. :-)
1866 - PHI ATH
1867-68 - NY MUT
1869-70 - BKN ATL
Are any of the early Pike years only part-time or token?
He also played a bit for Irvington, NJ in 1867. Not sure what level of detail you'd like, but here is what Marshall Wright has for him:
Here is what I have:
1866 - PHI ATH -- 16 G (25 is max) -- 3B/OF/2B
1867 - IRV NJ -- 6 G (21 is max) - 3B
1867 - NY MUT -- 21 G (29 is max) -- OF/3B/2B/1B
1868 - NY MUT -- 25 G (42 is max) -- OF
1869 - BKN ATL -- 48 G (48 is max) -- 2B
1870 - BKN ATL -- 58/max58 total (36/max36 pro) -- 2B
Boy, I think some of you guys need to see an eye doctor! :-D
I don't think they were that competitive of a team, David.
1920-29 KC MON (all fulltime?)
(not list him as part-time OF in 1934-35; barnstorming doesn't count, right?)
I'd agree that he should be listed for his 1917 play with the All-Nations.
He should also definitely be listed for 1930 (part-time) and 1931 (part-time) as an outfielder.
I'd leave the call on 1934 and 1935 up to you: the Monarchs were out of the leagues in part because the leagues were in very bad shape because of the Depression. They barnstormed to stay in business, not because they were necessarily a lesser team. But you should follow your criteria.
If your criteria include play for an NeL team, though, Rogan ought to be listed as token for 1937-38. The Negro American League formed in the West in 1937, and the Monarchs were in it.
I don't think they were that competitive of a team, David.
Ahh... been a while since I've cracked open Marshall Wright. Thanks for reminding me about this stuff.
Irvington was the "country club" team that upset Atlantic in '66 to end their winning streak. They were 16-7 in '67 with wins over Union Morisania (2-0), Bkn Eckford (2-0), Union Lansingburgh (2-1), Bkn Atlantic (1-1), Wash Natl (1-1)... swept by NY Mutual.
They fell to (2-6) the next year and only spot appearances on other schedules in the book after that.
Maybe Paul Wendt can chime in when he gets a chance. I have no strong feeling about it, just dumping out all the facts. It was only 6 games, so I don't object to listing only NYMutual for 1867.
The only other fellas stuck with only ONE HOM teammate (min 10 G) to this pt are hurlers Alexander, Walsh, and 3F Brown.
Pike played with 5 HOMers, even not counting Galvin (8 of 58 GP in 1875) and Stovey (Pike 1 G).
White and Kelly added one more season to their top-10 tally with Pike, but all these guys may be done for good now. Eddie Collins (8 HOMer teammates for total of 37 'years') looking like the rising star among the moderns...
MOST SEASONS WITH HOM TEAMMATES
O'Rourke 19 for 78
White 15 for 63
Ward 14 for 51
Connor 12 for 50
Brouthers 17 for 49
Kelly 19 for 47
Ewing 13 for 47
Gore 14 for 44
Richardson 13 for 43
Keefe 8 for 43
Thanks as always, fellas!
If Paul says differently, I'll definitely change the plaque.
Surprising to me, he was not actually on my first ballot. Although maybe not that surprising when I saw that we have now inducted 14 original eligibles, so chances are we all left off at least one of them (aside from Pearce, who only got one vote in 1898).
Other interesting discoveries:
Marc:
Having peeked ahead at the upcoming eligibles (all the way to 1920) I see us electing another 7 players who were eligible on this ballot. Based on '98 those would be:Radbourn, Wright, Sutton, Richardson, Williamson, Spalding and Start. I'd choose McVey and Pike over Sutton and Start.
But in the end, we didn't have to chose. We inducted six of those seven (all except Williamson), plus Galvin, McVey, Pike and Pearce.
Also notable from the 1898 results are the discussions with danb, who was the only(!) elector to leave an inductee off of his ballot (he didn't vote for Barnes -- the three other inductees were named on every ballot). There was some discussion of whether that would happen again. With the induction of Pike, we have reached the brink of almost electing a candidate who didn't make HALF the ballots (Pike was named on 26 out of 51 -- just over 50%).
Anyway, my project for the week is to look back and re-examine Ed Williamson, Tip O'Neill, and Charley Jones -- the three people who finished above the current top original eligible Mickey Welch on the first ballot.
Also, I'm going to have to re-examine Tommy Leach, who it is much easier to leave off of a ballot, then to explain why you are doing so.
"Elect me" positions:
Glasscock (1904), Radbourn (1905), Hamilton (1907), Delahanty (1909), Nichols (1911), Burkett (1912), Dahlen (1915), Davis (1915), Stovey (1916), Young (1917), Clarke (1917), Kelley (1919), Keeler (1919), Walsh (1920), Bennett (1921), Lajoie (1922), Mathewson (1922), Wagner (1923), Crawford (1923), Plank (1923), G. Johnson (1925), Magee (1926), J. Jackson (1927), Baker (1928), Sheckard (1930), Santop (1932), W. Johnson (1933), Wheat (1933), Cobb (1934), E. Collins (1935), Alexander (1936), J. Williams (1936), Torriente (1937), Heilmann (1937), Coveleski (1938), Faber (1939), Rogan (1940).
#2 (in an elect-1 year): Sutton (1908), Galvin (1910), McPhee (1913), Flick (1918)
#3: Wallace (1929), Speaker (1934), Lloyd (1935)
#4: Start (1912), Groh (1938)
#5: Rusie (1904)
#6: Richardson (1905), Spalding (1906), Brown (1925)
#7: Grant (1926), McGinnity (1928)
#8: Carey (1939)
#9:
#10: McVey (1914), J. Collins (1921)
#11:
#12:
#13:
#14:
#15: R. Foster (1932)
Off-ballot positions:
#19: Thompson (1929)
#21: Caruthers (1930)
#24: Pearce (1931)
Not listed: Pike (1940)
Everyone that I've ever put into an "elect me" position has eventually been elected, with two exceptions: George Van Haltren and Larry Doyle.
As you can see, I have five large discrepancies between my ballot placement and the elected ones. Of these, call Rube Foster, Dickey Pearce, and Lip Pike philosophical disagreements over the timeline and the nature of evidence. As for the other two, Thompson and Caruthers, I still think we made mistakes there.
The highest possible consensus score would have been +7. Somehow in that environment, Howie Menckel managed a score of +4. There were two other positive scores, Chris Cobb and Tiboreau at +1. My own score of -1 was among the 10 highest.
Scoring between -15 and -20: yest, robc, Dolf Lucky, karlmagnus, and Guapo.
One of the byproducts of this calculation is an "index of disagreement" number for each candidate. That number for Pike was the highest I've ever seen. Somehow I think that the two we elect in 1941 will go in with exremely low - perhaps zero - indices of disagreement.
Charley Jones is going to be my next 'cause'. I realize he's only polling #25 at this point, but greater gaps have been closed. Peak guys have to like him and there's enough career when you add in his black-list years.
Before age 37, his worst OPS+ was 132 (at age 36) and 134 (as a rookie in 51 PA). In-between he ranged from 147-183, over a 10-season run (with of course, the two missing seasons). His last 5 years were in the AA 1883-87, so they deserve a bit of a discount, but he was a heckuva hitter.
The only player on his most-similar list (through age 38) with an OPS+ near his career 149 is Gavy Cravath (151) - who is about to become my other cause, since I was his 'best friend' in this election - voting him 5th.
And it seems that I have fallen off in similarity scores, I guess that comes with the territory though, this only having been my sixth election.
One other thing of note: Many of my old 'causes' have moved up significantly over the past decade, like Welch, Griffith, Pike, Browning, and Childs. It's as if the other electors are helping me 'win' consensus scores.
Or do I just talk a good game? I seriously may re-think Doyle and Roush next 'year'; his supporters should send me cash, haha!
Here's my last vote in order, followed by where they actually finished (I got only Jennings and Leach 'right'):
1. CLARK GRIFFITH - 6th
2. BULLET JOE ROGAN - 1st
3. LIP PIKE - 2nd
4. MICKEY WELCH - 13th
5. HUGHIE JENNINGS - 5th
6. GEORGE SISLER - 7th
7. EPPA RIXEY - 4th
8. DICK REDDING - (18th)
9. TOMMY LEACH - 9th
10. JAKE BECKLEY - 8th
11. SAM RICE - 24th
12. BURLEIGH GRIMES - (19th)
13. CUPID CHILDS - (16th)
14. PETE BROWNING - 15th
15. JOE SEWELL - 3rd
Top vote-getters I didn't pick: Van Haltren-Waddell-Duffy, 10-11-12.
2B- Childs in
SS- Jennings in
3B- Williamson in, Sutton out
No regrets on any of the in's, Sutton still a PHoM contender. I need to see if he would go ahead of Traynor, not that I am sure Traynor will ever make it.
LF- C. Jones in; Stovey, Kelley, Sheckard, P. Hill out
The Hall of the Very Good LFers.
CF- H. Wright in. Since David Foss posted the details of his career I will allow that Harry was a mistake.
RF- Keeler out
P- Bond and Waddell in, Galvin and Faber out.
Pecking order for HoM/not PHoM to go into the PHoM someday:
1. Stovey
2. Sutton or Faber
3. Faber or Sutton
4. Kelley
5. Keeler
6. Sheckard or Hill
7. Hill or Sheckard
8. Galvin--the only definitely not never on the list, though it will be tough getting through all the other OFers to Hill and Sheckard.
If I had my druthers in the PHoM/not HoM side of the equation, I would hope that we elect my IFers plus Tommy Bond someday--Jennings, Bond, Williamson and Childs in that order.
I am 27 years early and counting on Harry Wright (sorry), 21 on Charley Jones, 17 on Williamson, 16 on Childs, 14 on Jennings and 12 on Tommy Bond.
Meanwhile I am 33 years late and counting on Sutton, 31 on Galvin, 25 on Stovey, 22 each on Keeler and Kelley, 14 on Hill and 11 on Sheckard. And I was 14 years late but PHoMed Hardy Richardson and also 14 years late on Eddie Plank.
You and me both, Marc.
I know I didn't share 15 people on my ballot with anybody, being the only voter with Tommy Bond (#56T) on my ballot, not to mention Ed Williamson (#47) and Jim McCormick (#49), sharing Ed with 2 other voters and Jim with 1.
Williamson is my next cause! I remember a lot of people saying he was pretty much interchangeable with Jimmy Collins. I have said I will have Pie Traynor on my ballot, but I think he will be behind Big Ed. Speaking of 3B (as somebody was somewhere recently), I also expect to have Stan Hack on my ballot. Hack ranks below Groh for sure, maybe below Traynor, but certainly way ahead of George Kell. Best 3B eligible as of 1963, when Kell became eligible:
1. Baker
2. Deacon White if you take his entire career and slot it and him at 3B
3. Collins
4. Groh
5. Williamson
6. Traynor
7. Hack
8. Leach
9. Sutton
10. Elliott
Rounding out the top 10 if you do not include Deacon White: Cross
Next 10: Nash, Zimmerman, Kell, Gardner, McGraw, Clift, Lyons, Bradley, Meyerle, Latham
Guys I would ever expect to see on my ballot goes down as far as Leach (who hasn't been there yet) and Sutton (who was but is not PHoM, at least not yet). Elliott seems more like probably not.
Yes it is, Marc. Funny, but I read it the way you meant it.
2. Deacon White if you take his entire career and slot it and him at 3B
I can't wait to analyze first baseman Ernie Banks years from now! :-)
With Lip's election my PHoM/not HoM is now at 22 enough to have a game and I now have more PHoMers/not HoMers(22) then PHoMers/not HoFers (17)
NOT IN THE HALL OF MERIT
1. Jake Beckley
2. George Van Haltren
3. Pete Browning
4. Hugh Duffy
5. Jimmy Ryan
6. Mickey Welch
7. Clark Griffith
8. Rube Waddell
9. Addie Joss
10. Jake Daubert
11. John McGraw
12. Gavvy Cravath
13. Bobby Veach
14. George J. Burns
15. Ginger Beaumont
16. George Sisler
17. Ray Schalk
18. Edd Roush
19. Rabbit Maranville
20. Joe Sewell
21. Sam Rice
22. Hack Wilson
Not in Phom
1. Bullet Joe Rogan
2. Sherry Magee
3. Stan Coveleski
4. Jack Glasscock
5. George Davis
6. Jimmy Collins
7. Bob Caruthers
8. Elmer Flick
9. Louis Santop
10. Joe Start
11. Red Faber
12. Bobby Wallace
13. Heinie Groh
14. Jimmy Sheckard
15. Hardy Richardson
16. Dickey Pearce
17. Ezra Sutton
18. Home Run Johnson
19. Frank Grant
20. Charlie Bennett
21. Max Carey
22. Cristóbal Torriente
Also under advisement is a special affirmative-action election for "white non-pitchers who played 15+ years in the Major Leagues", since they are having problems competing on a level playing field with the Cravaths, Monroes, Rixeys, and Mendezes who get in the front door.
13 is the max, and you're the only two to share 13. Daryn and Adam Schafer share 12. The least number shared between two ballots is 1, by Kelly from SD and Jim Sp.
So a new scale: pairwise agreement. This is a 0 to 100 scale. Call it % even though that's an oversimplification of what it really is. Everyone agrees 100% with himself. If your ballot and someone else's had no candidates in common, that would be 0% agreement. The average over all pairs for the 1940 ballot was 44% agreement.
The single highest pairwise agreement was 90% between Daryn and Adam Schafer. The next highest was 82% between Daryn and Howie Menkel. The three lowest pairwise agreements were 6% (Rusty Priske and Michael Bass), 7% (karlmagnus and Dr. Chaleeko) and 8% (Kelly from SD and EricC). Kelly from SD and Jim Sp had only one candidate in common, but since that candidate (Rogan) was #1 on both ballots, the pair checks in at 18% agreement.
In my own case, I agree 70% with both Rob Wood and Andrew M, with my lowest agreement being 28% with karlmagnus.
Of course, I can't see your internal thought processes, and this doesn't take into account anything that might or might not have happened in between your preliminary and final ballots.
Mazel tov to Mr. Pike.
Ezra Sutton
Dickey Pearce
Buck Ewing
Elmer Flick (it's been a while since Craig voted here)
Eddie Collins (is this Dolf Lucky?)
Joe used to sponsor Deacon White a while back, IIRC.
Omphaloknepsis, but quite amusing
Irvington (NJ) was strong in 1867; at least "competitive" in 1866. W-L 11-7 vs the other good teams (inclg forfeit L in final match); 3-5 in 1866. Relatively strong schedule each year.
Mutual's 1867 sweep was 17-16, 19-16. I suppose that Pike's Irvington stint was early in the 1867 season and that the Mutuals acquired him between their two matches --the 4th and 12th of 23 matches for Irvington, 3rd and 21st of 30 for Mutual.
1867 Irvington P Wolters and SS Stockman were acquired by the Mutuals for 1868. 2B Sweasy and 3B Leonard (moved to OF) were acquired by the Buckeyes of Cincinnati for 1868 and by Harry Wright for 1869. I suppose that all five were pros in 1868.
MLB careers of 1867 Irvingtons
<u>Name</u> _ <u>LastRegular/LastGame</u>
Lip Pike _ 1878/87
Andy Leonard _ 1878/80
Charlie Sweasy _ 1879/79
Rynie Wolters _ 1871/73
Mahlon Stockman _ 1868/69 (dnp MLB)
Hugh Campbell _ 1873 (Elizabeth Resolutes only MLB)
Mike Campbell _ 1873 (Elizabeth Resolutes only MLB)
1912: George Van Haltren
1913: Jake Beckley
1914: Jimmy Ryan
1921: Tommy Leach
1929: Spotswood Poles, Mickey Welch
1930: Hugh Duffy
1931: Harry Hooper
1932: Dobie Moore
1939: Eppa Rixey, Rabbit Maranville
1940: Sam Rice, George Sisler
There are a couple I would go back and change if I hadn't promised myself that I wouldn't do that.
In the HoM but not in my PHoM, in the order they were inducted:
1901: George Wright
1902: Buck Ewing
1905: Hardy Richardson
1916: Harry Stovey
1920: Ed Walsh
1922: Charlie Bennett, Jimmy Collins
1928: Joe McGinnity
1929: Sam Thompson
1938: Stan Coveleski, Heinie Groh
1939: Red Faber
1940: Joe Rogan
Some will get in at some point. Some never will.
1901: George Wright
1902: Buck Ewing
Wow... you inducted Pearce & Pike, but not these guys? I acknowledge that PHoM's are tough and I've been a supporter of Pearce & Pike myself, but I don't think they are in the class of George Wright.
Maybe I'll just make a plug for GWright for your PHoM in 1942. His pre-NA numbers were simply awesome. It wasn't like he was just the best player on his team from 1867-1870... its like he hit head-and-shoulders better than the second best player on championship teams from 1867-1870 as a shortstop. Stack that on top of his great NA/NL numbers and he's a first ballot elect-me-slot guy.
1901: George Wright
1902: Buck Ewing
Wow... you inducted Pearce & Pike, but not these guys? I acknowledge that PHoM's are tough and I've been a supporter of Pearce & Pike myself, but I don't think they are in the class of George Wright.
...or Ewing (but thanks for helping to induct Pearce and Pike, nevertheless :-).
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main