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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Monday, January 24, 20051943 Ballot Results: The Hall of Merit Honors Oscar Charleston and Mickey Cochrane!In his first year of eligibility, centerfield legend Oscar Charleston was elected almost unanimously with 99% of the vote. He is the tenth Negro Leaguer to enter the Hall of Merit. In also his first year on the ballot, fiery catcher Mickey Cochrane gained the second most points to earn the second spot for induction. Two other newbies,star second baseman Frankie Frisch and Negro League pitching standout Willie Foster, showed considerable support from the electorate.“The Fordham Flash,” in particular, has an excellent shot for induction in 1944. Rounding out the top ten were John Beckwith, Eppa Rixey, Clark Griffith, Jake Beckley, Joe Sewell and George Van Haltren . RK LY Player PTS Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 n/e Oscar Charleston 1238 52 49 2 1 2 n/e Mickey Cochrane 1102 52 2 34 11 1 1 1 1 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3 n/e Frankie Frisch 951 51 14 22 10 1 2 1 1 4 n/e Willie Foster 624 43 1 2 12 3 6 2 5 4 4 3 1 5 5 John Beckwith 453 37 4 1 3 4 3 3 4 2 4 3 1 5 6 3 Eppa Rixey 397 33 2 1 2 4 5 3 2 4 2 7 1 7 6 Clark Griffith 344 30 1 5 1 3 2 3 4 2 1 2 3 3 8 10 Jake Beckley 334 27 1 4 1 2 2 3 1 2 3 3 4 1 9 4 Joe Sewell 331 27 1 2 5 1 3 4 2 1 3 2 3 10 7 George Van Haltren 311 24 2 4 1 3 1 1 2 5 2 1 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11 11 George Sisler 306 24 1 5 2 2 1 2 3 1 2 1 4 12 8 Hughie Jennings 289 23 1 2 5 2 3 2 1 2 1 3 1 13 13 Hugh Duffy 257 22 2 3 3 2 3 1 2 1 3 2 14 9 Tommy Leach 255 24 1 1 1 1 2 2 4 3 2 4 1 2 15 12 Rube Waddell 251 22 1 1 2 3 1 4 3 3 2 2 16 14 Edd Roush 222 21 1 2 1 1 2 2 4 3 2 2 1 17 16 Cupid Childs 209 18 1 3 3 1 2 3 3 1 1 18 17 Mickey Welch 208 15 3 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 3 19 18 Pete Browning 185 15 1 3 2 2 2 2 1 2 20 19 Burleigh Grimes 168 14 1 1 2 3 3 1 1 1 1 21 15 Cannonball Dick Redding 155 16 1 2 1 1 3 2 2 2 2 22 24 Charley Jones 137 10 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 23 20 Larry Doyle 133 12 1 3 1 1 1 2 1 2 24 22 Jimmy Ryan 125 12 1 2 2 2 1 2 2 25 n/e Dick Lundy 115 11 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 26 23 José Méndez 112 10 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 27 28 Dobie Moore 107 12 1 1 4 4 1 1 28 21 Roger Bresnahan 104 12 1 1 1 1 3 2 3 29 27 Sam Rice 103 9 1 1 2 2 1 2 30 26 Bill Monroe 100 11 1 2 2 2 1 3 31 25 Wally Schang 94 8 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 32 29 Pie Traynor 79 8 1 1 1 1 1 3 33 31 George J. Burns 65 7 1 1 2 2 1 34 34 John McGraw 53 5 1 1 2 1 35 33 Ben Taylor 46 4 1 2 1 36T 43 Gavy Cravath 45 4 2 1 1 36T 30 Harry Hooper 45 4 1 1 1 1 38 41 Carl Mays 39 5 1 1 1 2 39 32 Vic Willis 39 3 2 1 40 40 Spotswood Poles 32 3 2 1 41 38 Addie Joss 29 3 1 1 1 42 37 Rabbit Maranville 27 3 1 1 1 43 36 Wilbur Cooper 27 2 1 1 44 35 Bobby Veach 26 3 1 1 1 45 47 Ed Cicotte 26 2 1 1 46 44 Ed Williamson 24 3 1 2 47 49 Lave Cross 24 2 1 1 48 39 Urban Shocker 20 3 1 2 49 42 Hack Wilson 17 2 1 1 50 n/e Judy Johnson 16 1 1 51 48 Ed Konetchy 14 2 1 1 52T 52 Fred Dunlap 14 1 1 52T 64T Ross Youngs 14 1 1 54 45 Frank Chance 13 2 1 1 55T 55T Dolf Luque 13 1 1 55T 55T Tom York 13 1 1 57T 53 Buzz Arlett 12 1 1 57T 59T Tommy Bond 12 1 1 57T 58 Sam Leever 12 1 1 60 57 Donie Bush 11 1 1 61 51 Jim McCormick 9 1 1 62T 50 Dave Bancroft 7 1 1 62T 62 Ray Schalk 7 1 1 64 46 Fielder Jones 6 1 1 Dropped Out: Jack Fournier(59T), Del Pratt(54), Jack Quinn(63), Duke Farrell(59T), Herman Long(64T). John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy
Posted: January 24, 2005 at 10:32 PM | 18 comment(s)
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: January 25, 2005 at 01:01 AM (#1100253)I don't know how to figure consensus scores, but I am willing to guess that yest will have this "year's" lowest.
Also, so much for me having the most idiosyncratic ballot this year.
WOT: Seeing Oscar get elected his first year reminded me of a play I saw called "Cobb" if I remember the name right. There were four characters: young brash Cobb (say 1909 or so), end of career Cobb, old Cobb (1960 or so) who would argue with each other and then Oscar (late in years) who acted as a bit of a conscience/ corrective voice. Enoyable. Don't remember too much now, but at the time it seemed like accurate portrayals of the different ages of Cobb.
Back to your regularly scheduled thread...
Everyone who has ever gotten support resembling what Frisch got has been elected, rather easily. Of course with a new unanimous ballot-topper next year, Frisch will have to fight with Goslin for the one available slot. But he'll get in eventually, no doubt. Bill Foster is also in a position from which eventual election is very likely.
He's not going in in 1944, so there's time, but so far my panel is stumped.
Willie Foster
John Beckwith
Dick Redding
Dick Lundy
Jose Mendez
Dobie Moore
Bill Monroe
Ben Taylor
Sportswood Poles
Judy Johnson
The bolded players are players for whom we do *not* have Chris Cobb season-by-season WS estimates. Taking them one-by-one...
Foster: Probably the most pressing, though as he is a pitcher, probably the most taxing on Chris. Still, he's right on the border of going in very soon, and an estimate would be very useful.
Monroe: Estimate probably is impossible or nearly so. I could be wrong on that of course; if there is any way to take a lunge at it, I'd like to see it.
Poles: We did get an estimate on his hitting from Jeff, but from what I've seen Jeff and Chris's estimates are very different in general. Plus, of course, defense is a key part of Poles' case.
Johnson: Only received one vote, and even that was from someone who admits he's likely to drop him some. Not a priority.
I certainly don't mean to put pressure on Chris, lord knows he does more than we could reasonably ask around here. But if he does dip into the "backlog" any time soon, I think these 3 (2 if Monroe is simply not possible) would be the place to start.
Pike 13399
Thompson 12349
VAN HALTREN 11727.5
DUFFY 11552
Bennett 11503
JENNINGS 11419
BECKLEY 10946
Caruthers 10704
BROWNING 10424.5
RYAN 9797
H Stovey 9576
GRIFITH 9364
WADDELL 8992
Start 8378.5
McGinnity 8232
CHILDS 8155
Pearce 8073
WELCH 8014
McVey 7985.5
Grant 7969.5
Galvin 6585
Sheckard 6377
Sutton 6070
McPhee 5921
Wallace 5808
(Bresnahan 5768)
Van Haltren and Duffy move up to 3-4; Jennings will go to 5 next year and continues to gain on Duffy. Beckley moves up a slot to 6 while Browning-Ryan remain 8-9. Griffith will move into the top 10 next year as he continues to win his ballot over 12th-man Waddell. Childs and Welch make big jumps to 15 and 17. Bresnahan, staggered by Cochrane's arrival, still will make it into top 25 next year.
1936
Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Honus Wagner, Christy Mathewson, Walter Johnson
1937
Nap Lajoie, Tris Speaker, Cy Young, Connie Mack, John McGraw, George Wright
1938
Grover Cleveland Alexander
1939
George Sisler, Eddie Collins, Willie Keeler, Lou Gehrig, Cap Anson, Charles Comiskey, Candy Cummings, Buck Ewing, Charlie Radbourn, Al Spalding
1942
Rogers Hornsby
1945
Roger Bresnahan, Dan Brouthers, Fred Clarke, Jimmy Collins, Ed Delahanty, Hugh Duffy, Hugh Jennings, King Kelly, Jim O'Rourke, Wilbert Robinson
1946
Jesse Burkett, Frank Chance, Jack Chesbro, Johnny Evers, Clark Griffith, Tommy McCarthy, Joe McGinnity, Eddie Plank, Joe Tinker, Rube Waddell, Ed Walsh
1947
Mickey Cochrane, Frankie Frisch
1948
Herb Pennock, Pie Traynor
1949
Three Finger Brown, Kid Nichols
1952
Harry Heilmann
1953
Chief Bender, Bobby Wallace, Harry Wright
1954
Rabbit Maranville, Bill Terry
1955
Dazzy Vance, Home Run Baker, Ray Schalk
1957
Sam Crawford
1959
Zack Wheat
1961
Max Carey, Billy Hamilton
1962
Edd Roush, Bill McKechnie
1963
John Clarkson, Elmer Flick, Sam Rice, Eppa Rixey
1964
Red Faber, Burleigh Grimes, Miller Huggins, Tim Keefe, Monte Ward
1965
Pud Galvin
1966
Casey Stengel
1968
Kiki Cuyler, Goose Goslin
1969
Stan Coveleski, Waite Hoyt
1970
Earle Combs, Jesse Haines
1971
Dave Bancroft, Jake Beckley, Chick Hafey, Harry Hooper, Joe Kelley, Rube Marquard
1972
Ross Youngs
1973
George Kelly, Mickey Welch.
1974
Jim Bottomley, Sam Thompson
1975
Bucky Harris, Judy Johnson
1976
Roger Connor, Fred Lindstrom, Oscar Charleston
1977
Amos Rusie, Joe Sewell, Pop Lloyd
1978
Addie Joss
1979
Hack Wilson.
1981
Rube Foster
1982
Travis Jackson
1995
Vic Willis
1996
Ned Hanlon, Bill Foster
1998
George Davis, Bullet Joe Rogan
1999
Frank Selee, Smokey Joe Williams
2000
Bid McPhee
This is slightly irrelevant but I saw this quote on the hall of fame’s website and it was to funny not to share.
Wade Boggs said “If you take away any of my time spent with any of the three teams in my career, I’m likely not considered a Hall of Famer”.
I'd further refine it to this:
HOF players we've not been willing to put in (42)
George Sisler, Roger Bresnahan, Hugh Duffy, Hugh Jennings, Frank Chance, Jack Chesbro, Johnny Evers, Clark Griffith, Tommy McCarthy, Joe Tinker, Rube Waddell, Herb Pennock, Pie Traynor, Chief Bender, Rabbit Maranville, Ray Schalk, Edd Roush, Sam Rice, Eppa Rixey, Burleigh Grimes, Kiki Cuyler, Goose Goslin, Waite Hoyt, Earle Combs, Jesse Haines, Dave Bancroft, Jake Beckley, Chick Hafey, Harry Hooper, Rube Marquard, Ross Youngs, George Kelly, Mickey Welch, Jim Bottomley, Judy Johnson, Fred Lindstrom, Joe Sewell, Addie Joss, Hack Wilson, Travis Jackson, Vic Willis, Bill Foster
Mostly in HOF via managing/executive/pioneering (12)
Connie Mack, John McGraw, Charles Comiskey, Harry Wright, Candy Cummings, Wilbert Robinson, Bill McKechnie, Miller Huggins, Casey Stengel, Bucky Harris, Ned Hanlon, Frank Selee
A few are open to debate, of course. This lists Goslin but not shoo-in Gehrig or Frisch, which is debatable, list Frisch if you prefer.
Candidates with strong support (appearing on half of all ballots):
Clark Griffith, Eppa Rixey, Goose Goslin*, Jake Beckley, Bill Foster, Joe Sewell.
*my gut feeling here, feel free to disagree.
Candidates with moderate support (appearing on a third of ballots):
George Sisler, Hugh Duffy, Hugh Jennings, Rube Waddell, Edd Roush.
Candidates with some support (one quarter of ballots):
Burleigh Grimes, Mickey Welch. KiKi Cuyler*
*Ditto the Goslin comment.
Candidates with weak support (one fifth of all ballots):
Roger Bresnahan.
Candidates with almost no support (one tenth of all ballots):
Pie Traynor, Sam Rice.
Candidates on life support (1-4 ballots):
Dave Bancroft, Ross Youngs, Hack Wilson, Judy Johnson, Harry Hooper, Addie Joss, Vic Willis, Ray Schalk, Rabbit Maranville, Waite Hoyt, Frank Chance.
Candidates with no support (zero ballots):
Jack Chesbro, Johnny Evers, Tommy McCarthy, Joe Tinker, Herb Pennock, Chief Bender, Earle Combs, Jesse Haines, Chick Hafey, Rube Marquard, George Kelly, Jim Bottomley, Fred Lindstrom, Travis Jackson.
When looked at in tiers like this, it's obvious that we're doing a fine job of screening candidates and throwing appropriate amounts of support at them (at least in terms of the number of ballots cast for each). The worst of the HOF lot are in no danger of being elected unless we expand to fifteen-man classes instead of three starting in 1958.
A little pat on the institutional back. ; )
Although this list does contain the completely rejected (e.g. Chesbro, McCarthy, Kelly) and those whose candidacies have run out of steam (e.g. Maranville, Joss, Willis), it also contains a significant number of players whose candidacies are very much alive. Several of them will certainly be inducted when the time is right.
And I'm sure you noticed when you put Chance and Griffith on the first list but McGraw on the second that it's not easy to draw a firm line between the two lists.
- which Dr. Chaleeko proceeded to list while I wasn't watching. Crossing posts.
Anyone else have pre-conceived notions of how many differences there would be by the end of the project?
Anyone else think there should be a link back to the previous year's results in each year's ballot header? As long as we're required to mention last year's top ten, it makes sense to me to make it easier to find the corresponding list.
I will note that there already is a link from the main HOM page to each election result page.
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