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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Monday, June 27, 20051954 Results: Shortstops Vaughan and Wells are the Newest Hall of Merit Picks!In his first year of eligibility, Pittsburgh Pirate great Arky Vaughan was elected to the Hall of Merit with a robust 98% of all possible points. In his second year on a ballot, legendary shortstop Willie Wells became the second HoM inductee with 78% of all possible points. He becomes the sixteenth Negro Leaguer to achieve the honor. Rounding out the top-ten were: Mule Suttles, John Beckwith, Billy Herman, Joe Medwick (his first year of eligibility), Red Ruffing, Stan Hack, Wes Ferrell and Hughie Jennings. RK LY Player PTS Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 n/e Arkie Vaughan 1157 49 43 4 1 1 2 3 Willie Wells 922 48 3 21 5 5 5 2 4 1 1 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3 4 Mule Suttles 674 43 7 6 7 1 5 4 3 4 5 1 4 5 John Beckwith 602 40 4 11 4 3 2 4 1 2 4 2 2 1 5 6 Billy Herman 428 32 3 2 5 1 2 3 2 3 1 3 1 1 5 6 n/e Joe Medwick 370 30 1 2 4 2 2 1 1 3 1 3 3 4 3 7 7 Red Ruffing 354 28 3 4 3 1 4 2 1 1 1 1 6 1 8 8 Stan Hack 348 29 1 1 3 3 4 1 1 4 5 1 2 2 1 9 11 Wes Ferrell 296 24 2 1 1 2 2 3 2 7 1 1 2 10 12 Hughie Jennings 283 18 3 3 1 3 1 3 2 1 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11 9 Earl Averill 258 22 1 1 3 2 2 3 2 2 5 1 12 10 Eppa Rixey 246 21 2 1 1 1 5 1 2 2 5 1 13 13 Biz Mackey 232 23 1 1 2 1 4 1 1 2 5 5 14 14 Clark Griffith 232 20 2 3 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 3 2 1 15 18 George Sisler 200 17 1 2 2 1 2 1 1 2 2 3 16 17 Jake Beckley 198 15 1 1 2 1 1 5 1 1 1 1 17 16 Cool Papa Bell 183 16 1 2 1 1 1 2 2 3 3 18 15 George Van Haltren 174 14 2 2 3 4 2 1 19 23 Cannonball Dick Redding 152 13 1 2 1 1 2 1 2 1 2 20 22 Pete Browning 151 11 2 2 3 1 2 1 21 20 Joe Sewell 150 13 1 2 1 1 2 2 2 1 1 22 19 Mickey Welch 150 10 1 3 1 2 1 1 1 23 21 Hugh Duffy 149 12 1 2 1 2 1 3 1 1 24 31 José Méndez 127 11 1 1 1 1 5 1 1 25 25 Cupid Childs 126 11 1 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 1 26 n/e Bucky Walters 125 11 2 1 2 2 2 1 1 27 30 Charley Jones 115 8 1 1 2 2 1 1 28 26 Tommy Leach 114 10 1 1 1 3 2 2 29 29 Gavy Cravath 111 8 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 30 32 Rube Waddell 109 12 1 1 1 1 3 1 4 31 28 Wally Schang 104 8 1 3 3 1 32 27 Burleigh Grimes 102 9 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 33 24 Edd Roush 98 10 1 3 3 1 1 1 34 34T Dobie Moore 95 9 1 1 1 1 3 1 1 35 34T Roger Bresnahan 76 7 1 1 2 1 1 1 36 40 Bill Monroe 58 6 1 1 2 2 37 37 Larry Doyle 56 5 1 1 1 1 1 38 45T John McGraw 52 6 1 2 1 2 39T 42T Tommy Bridges 52 5 1 2 2 39T 36 Dizzy Dean 52 5 2 2 1 41 38 Bob Johnson 51 5 1 1 2 1 42 33 Ernie Lombardi 50 4 1 2 1 43 41 Chuck Klein 46 4 1 2 1 44 44 Ben Taylor 39 4 1 1 1 1 45 42T Sam Rice 33 3 1 2 46 50 Buzz Arlett 23 2 1 1 47T 47T Wally Berger 22 2 1 1 47T 52T Ed Cicotte 22 2 1 1 49 47T George J. Burns 21 3 1 2 50 49 Vic Willis 19 2 1 1 51 39 Dick Lundy 18 2 1 1 52 52T Pie Traynor 17 1 1 53 51 Spotswood Poles 15 2 1 1 54 54 Tommy Bond 15 1 1 55 n/e Hack Wilson 12 2 2 56T 56 Fielder Jones 12 1 1 56T 55 Dolf Luque 12 1 1 58 57T Sam Leever 10 1 1 59 57T Lefty Gomez 9 1 1 60 59 Carl Mays 8 1 1 61T 60T Bill Byrd 6 1 1 61T n/e Ed Williamson 6 1 1 Dropped Out: Mel Harder(62), Addie Joss(60T), Jimmy Ryan(45T). John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy
Posted: June 27, 2005 at 05:59 PM | 58 comment(s)
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: June 28, 2005 at 12:12 AM (#1435331)Is this the first time that Ryan has fallen off the list?
Notes: No movement in Top 10.... Ryan falls off the vote board, by far the most votes of anyone to see that happen. Will he ever return?..... Welch the 13th member of the 10,000 pt club, Childs should be No. 14 next year.... Beckwith becomes the Negro Leagues all-time pt leader, moves into top 20.
JENNINGS 14826
VAN HALTREN 14499.5
DUFFY 14066.5
BECKLEY 13858
Pike 13399
GRIFFITH 12692
Thompson 12349
BROWNING 12137.5
Bennett 11503
WADDELL 10977
Caruthers 10704
RYAN 10507.5
WELCH 10067
CHILDS 9914
H Stovey 9576
Start 8378.5
McGinnity 8232
Pearce 8073
BECKWITH 8004
McVey 7985.5
Grant 7969.5
BRESNAHAN 7058
T LEACH 6787
Galvin 6585
Sheckard 6377
(Rixey 6307, Suttles 6258, Sisler 5932, C Jones 5852, Monroe 5008, Sewell 4870, Williamson 4223, Doyle 4059, Roush 3986, Ferrell 3694, Mendez 3575, Redding 3516)
Rixey has the best shot in the next 20 years, I suppose, but he may either fade out too quickly or (heavens!) get elected.
Top 6:
Tiboreau +13 (+12.86)
Patrick W +12 (+12.34)
Devin McCullen +12
dan b +11
TomH +11
Chris Cobb +11
Bottom 5:
Daryn -6
PhillyBooster -7
Gadfly -7
karlmagnus -15 (-15.22)
yest -15 (-15.57)
He's 70, and a huge sports fan, he got the minor league stadium there named "Newark Bears and Eagles Stadium" to pay tribute to both great teams.
Sharp as a tack; I wonder if he remembers Willie Wells at the tail end of that career. I imagine in the 1945 appearances, he was quite the legend by then. I'll have to ask him.
Incidentally, I was in Boise in January.
In celebration of having a completely updated my HOM History (almost, I still have to update the Voter Rolls for 1950-54), I thought I would throw together a little useless data for the
50th57th anniversary (I was really behind). Enjoy!This list could be radically different really quick, no? 94 Rookies have achieved a score of 40.0% or higher. Only Suttles (69th best), E.Williamson (1898, 47.1%, 85th), H.Duffy (1907, 44.4%, 92nd) and J.Ryan (1909, 40.4%, 94th, R.I.P.) have yet to be elected.
The average HOMer entered with a score of 80.6%.
Average Score is 33.2%, Median Score is 12.6%
To date, 261 players have received at least 1/6 of a vote in 57 total elections.
Suttles has made a remarkable climb up the total points list. He ranks 28th (511.3), and only E.Sutton (647.9, 23rd, 11yrs) and B.McPhee (584.2, 24th, 9yrs) are above him on this list with fewer than 12 yrs eligible.
Tiboreau +13 (+12.86)
Patrick W +12 (+12.34)
Devin McCullen +12
dan b +11
TomH +11
Chris Cobb +11
Me? Really? Gosh, imagine if I liked Medwick or kicked McGraw off my ballot.
---- “clearly in” “borderline” “HoVGood”
-C -------------Mackey Bresn/Lomard/Schang
SS --------------Sewell ----Jennings
2B ---Herman -------Childs -Monroe/Doyle
3B ----Hack ----McGraw -Traynor
UTIL -----------Beckwith ---Leach
1B ---Leonard--------------------Sisler/
1B -Suttles ----------------Chance/Beckley
OF -----------VanHaltren ---B Johnson
OF -----------CP Bell, Averill -Medwick
-P --Griffith Walters------Rixey –--Mendez
-P RBrown- Ruffing ----------Dean/Welch
-P -------- Ferrell --------------Waddell
Setting those 3 aside, here is my list of SSs currently eligible or coming up before the 1950s are over.
1. Appling--could get HoM/not PHoM, though he will rank ahead of Wells (I think) for PHoM
2. Boudreau--tentatively behind Wells
3. Vern Stephens--as good as Boudreau almost every year
4. Sewell--only 2/3 SS (overrated by Tom H ;-)
5. Lundy--94 OPS+ doesn't feel right to me
6. Bancroft--one of the 3-4 best SS defenders ever
7. Maranville
6. Tinker--two more great SS defenders
But I will continue to have Jennings and Moore ahead of any of these.
Just curious to know where are you at with Herman Long?
Herman Long dropped out of contention a long time ago. I became pretty satisfied that Tinker was better and then a succession of SSs have slotted in ahead of Tinker since then. Rowdy Dick Bartell and Herman Long might be #9 and #10 but as they are not in the top 100 anymore I don't remember for sure.
What does it mean that we have Wells, Suttles and Beckwith #2-3-4 and only 6 other NeLers in the top 50? Some hypotheses:
• Elect the best, forget the rest? (i.e. underrate the rest?)
• We are overrating Wells, Suttles, Beckwith?
• We are underrating Wells, Suttles, Beckwith--e.g. if they were white they would have been elected a long time ago?
• The MLEs presented here are too low?
• The MLEs presented here are too high?
• Wells, Suttles and Beckwith really are just a smidge better than Herman, Medwick and Jennings or Hack. i.e. We got it "just right."
I think it means several things:
1) We still don't have a good handle on the Negro League pitchers (esp Andy Cooper)
2) We don't have MLEs on everybody (not a blaming statement), for instance Oms, and there's much uncertainty about the conversion rate we're using and how regression effects peaks
3) The NgL population may not be exactly analagous in depth or breadth to the majors, even if its cream was as good or better than MLB's, so it may be that the pool of HOMish players is smaller anyway.
If we drop those 9 from consideration, black players represented 9 of the top 41 post-1900 players. That's 22%, which most of us would agree is probably low.
I'd say that "elect the best, forget the rest" (which applies to the calculation of MLEs as well as to a general attitude), lack of a handle on pitchers in particular and MLEs that are too low are probably the main reasons why fewer NeL players are appearing in the top 50.
In truth, an eligible Negro Leaguer off the ballot at this point is more likely to be elected than Chuck Klein or Wally Berger.
Yes, congratulations to Vaughan and Wells.
there are 9 pre-1900 stars in the top 50. Given that black baseball was not really developed enough before 1900 to produce more than a few top players, that will thin the pool of black players relative to white players.
For purposes of demographic argument this is true of the aughts also. --especially for thinking in terms of every player in his central decade, where Fred Clarke and Bobby Wallace (elected) do not count as 1890s stars.
Have a good holiday. Don't drink and drive.
Who was the old ballplayer injured by fireworks?
In truth, an eligible Negro Leaguer off the ballot at this point is more likely to be elected than Chuck Klein or Wally Berger.
I happen to agree with you, Howie. Now, an outsider going over the results may conclude that there is some bias against the NeLers (or African-Americans, for that matter). They would be wrong, of course. I think the "problem" is a result of how sure we are about the NeL MLEs. If a borderline NeLer is competing with a borderline MLer, the former probably will lose due to the (relative) lack of certainty in regard to how his numbers were interpreted.
I don't disagree with you about Bell and Mackey as HoMers, but they did have very long careers. I could see a pure career voter adding their names to a ballot. My problem with them (especially Bell) is their unremarkable peaks.
But I would take them over a few MLers who somehow earn votes every election despite less credentials.
Of course I am even more struck by Joe Medwick and his great peak at #40 versus Sam Leever and his "great peak" at #11-12(?) or thereabouts.
I don't know if you're a peak voter or a career voter...well, except with Beckley and Welch 1-2, no, I can see that you're a career voter, sort of.
But anyway, explain Beckley #1 and Bell #41 to me, if you don't mind! Thanks.
Given that we already elected Bell's white, likely inferior, doppleganger, I don't think this argument holds much weight.
(Not that I support Bell or his doppleganger)
I didn't vote for Carey, if he's the doppleganger.
Leever's there for career W/L, with a modest 25% credit (WWII gets 50%) for not starting till 27 for economic reasons.
I realize that, but your argument above is that Bell is only being considered due to "a warm and fuzzy feeling" and that he "wouldn't cut it in a minute" if he were an MLer. Carey's election indicates that the electorate is perfectly happy to consider white players similar to Bell.
Anyway, karl, you're right, that 100 for Bell--expecially those two highly symbolic goose-eggs on the end of it--are pretty big. I was thinking more of Bell and Beckley as being comparable in the same ways that Bell and Rose are comparable. Lots of seasons, lots of PAs, lots of hits.
I did vote for Carey, he is in my PHoM. Of course, Carey had the good sense to retire at the right time. The competition was a bit different then.
I think you are missing hypothesis #7: relative lack of data leads to limited range of conclusions.
Take the player right in the middle of the Top 50 -- Cupid Childs. He is loved by WARP (103.6), but is relatively low in Win Shares (238), although with a good rate. He gets bumped down by voters who strongly discount the 1890 AA, and bumped up by players who give significant "league contraction" bonuses for 1890s NL play. He is moved up or down by some if he was the best second baseman in the league, or if he was second to Bid McPhee. For some, 6700 plate appearances in too low, while for other his non-consecutive peak is too high to ignore.
For Negro League players, we get a choice of non-contextualized raw numbers, and some excellent MLEs put together by some of the voters. But, due to the limited amount of data, there are very few players for whom there is any "conflicting" data. We never argue whether Mule Suttles is overrated by Win Shares or underrated by WARP, because they are not rated by either, and no one who is making equivalencies would come up with vastly different numbers when converting to WARP-equivalent or WS-equivalent.
I think we almost all agree on the Negro Leaguers because we've got 2 or 3 different numbers to ponder instead of 20 or 30, and that inherently leads to more agreement.
When I draft in a sim league, there may be huge discrepancies as to which CFer is beter, because you have batting average vs power vs walks vs speed vs defense. But with pitchers, everyone in the league knows it's about ERA. So we rate them similarly.
NeL stats might be foggy, but MLB stats are measured with highly confident precise (but flawed) metrics.
1. Ruffing (#7 overall)--28 out of 49 ballots--ERA+ 109
2. Ferrell (9)--24--117
3. Rixey (12)--21--118
4. Griffith (14)--20--121
5. Redding (19)--13
6. Welch (22)--10--113
7. Mendez (24)--11
8. Walters (26)--11--115
9. Waddell (30)--12--135(!)
10. Grimes (32)--9--107
One pitcher on half the ballots. Meanwhile, the best ERA+ available.
1. Joss 142--no ballots
2. Waddell 135--12 ballots
3. Hahn 133--zero
4. Dean 130--5
5. Cuppy 127--0
6. Bridges 126--5
7. Gomez 125--1
8. Foutz and Shocker--124--0 and 0
10. Cicotte, Mort Cooper, L. Corcoran, Leever, Overall--123--Cicotte 2 and Leever 1
I wonder what criteria we are electing? Maybe just good old HFM or HFS? Certainly not ERA or ERA+.
sim league CF:pitchers
is to HoM MLB:NeL
In a sim league, most pitchers of a common era had similar IP totals. Our HoM disagreements are more based on the value of ERA+ vs career IP, as well as league strength and defensive support, neither of which figure into sim leagues.
In real life, if much of what is perceived as pitching is in fact defense, and we have difficulty measuring defense, our level (and the HoF's) of agreement among pitchers could feasibly be waaaay low! Hence, the HoF's preference for Jim Palmer, when Bert Blyleven was obviously better...
1. Joss 142--fell off the chart in 1954, 2327 IP
2. Waddell 135, 2961 IP
3. Dean 130, 1967 IP
4. Bridges 126, 1816 IP
5. Gomez 125, 2503 IP
6. Cicotte 123--tie break is more IP, 3226 IP
7. Leever 123, 2661 IP
8. Griffith 121, 3386 IP
9. Mays 119. 3021 IP
10. Rixey 118, 4495 IP
In fairness I don't have a number for Jose Mendez.
11. Willis 118, 3996 IP
12. Luque 117--without all those Cuban innings, 3220 IP
13. Ferrell 117, 2623 IP
14. Walters 115, 3105 IP
15. Redding 114--I think this is the right number, lots of IP
16. Welch 113, 4802 IP
17. Harder 113--fell off the chart in 1954, 3426 IP
18. Bond 110, 2780 IP
19. Ruffing 109--yet #1 pitcher in 1954 results, 4344 IP
20. Grimes 107, 4180 IP
Bill Byrd also received votes but I'm not going to repro his numbers since I don't know that they're right or that they don't prejudice his case.
Let the record show that Cicotte, Griffith and Rixey are the only 3 candidates in the top half of both lists.
I am also a Joss and Waddell supporter. I'd rather have 2500ish IP at 135-145 ERA+ than 4000 IP at 109. At least in my HoM I would.
How can Ruffing be ahead of Rixey, or even of Vic Willis?
- The NL of Rixey's day was the weakest actual major league of the 20th century
- 22 OPS+ vs. 81 OPS+ (in about 400 more PA)
- Ruffing because of the above 2 factors actually manages a slight peak where Rixey did not
I'm not sure how Rixey can be ahead of Ruffing on any but the most stringent "screw league quality!" voter's list.
As for Willis, he racked up less innings in an era where innings where easier to come by than Ruffing's, and has an even worse OPS+ than Rixey did.
And the point where Addie Joss gets "dead" credit is the point where extra credit has officially gone off the rails. Well, I should take that back; given the extra credit already being given to Leever, Cicotte, and Cravath, we're already far off the rails, so Joss wouldn't really do much there.
I'm not an FORR, but he has been lingering in the 14-17 range of my ballots so I have been contributing to his vote totals.
Anyhow, Ruffing does have decent peak seasons which is odd for a player with his career numbers -- the odd shape of his career is weighting down his career numbers. He's not the Baines/Perez of pitching candidates. If the Red Sox were in the PCL, a lot of us would just not give him credit for those years and he'd have solid post-Boston numbers. I like him better than Dean, Walters, Gomez, Harder and Bridges for this reason.
I also don't advocate for WARPs extreme adjustments for league quality.
Ruffing pitched a lot of innings, none of them during WWII (at lest not 1943-44, but yes, 1945), though it's unclear exactly when he couldn't pitch anymore. He also didn't have to pitch against one of the greatest teams of all time and by that I mean greatest dynasties for a good four peak years there. Was the rest of the AL minus the Yankees that much better?
Rixey missed a full year and came back rusty in 1919. He pitched a hell of a lot of innings, too. 8 20-WS seasons in 11 (not counting 1918 and 1919) is a pretty good prime if not a huge peak.
Ruffing meanwhile had 7 20-WS seasons in 12 without the inconvenience of a war in his prime. I sure don't see much of a peak differential there.
Rixey 26-26-24-23-22-22-21-20
Ruffing 26-25-24-23-22-22-21
The career totals of course are Ruffing 322 Rixey 315. Being fair, Rixey went from 24-20 to 0-4-18. He conservatively lost 30 WS. Ruffing of course went from 16-15-15 to 0-0 then 7-7. He liberally lost 30 WS, but Rixey could just as likely have made up the 7. No matter, anyway.
Is the peak difference you speak of in the sequence? Again, leaving 1918 and 1919 out of it, which I think is fair, here are their sequences from first to last 20 WS season.
Rixey 24-20-18-22-23-26-21-26-14-15-22
Ruffing 21-11-16-15-26-15-17-22-23-24-25-22
Each put 5 consecutive 20s together, and that is not interrupted by 1918-19 in Rixey's case, they came in real time, just like Ruffing's. And in fact, Rixey's 5 = 118, Ruffing's = 116.
Rixey's 11 years from 1st to last = 231
Ruffing's 12 years = 237
There, basically is the 7 point difference for career, and this is with Rixey missing 1 year and virtually a second. Again, Ruffing might have done just as well in 1943-44, but when talking about their peaks, no, it doesn't enter in.
All of those WS of course include Ruffing's hitting edge. And of course they also include Rixey's 9 point ERA+ edge.
So we're left with the league adjustment. By all means, go for it, but again I don't buy the huge discounts proposed by WARP. Do you know how much of it is for league (which I take with a grain of salt) and how much is just a timeline adjustment (which I don't accept even with a grain of salt or a heaping spoonful of sugar, for that matter)?
I wouldn't start giving credit for being dead. That opens up a whole new pandora's box. if you are giving Joss credit why not Delahanty? Why not Ray Chapman? Why not a sick player like Gibson or J. R. Richard? Why not a player like Campanella?
In fact, in 1955 I have (had) Ruffing #22 and Rixey #23. So they look about identical to me. One could hit, the other was a better pitcher, and throw away the league adjustment. Two candidates to get on my ballot someday. But on reflection when we're talking about pitchers, I like the better pitcher.
I certainly know better than to argue timelining with you. :) I was speaking of the actual league quality adjustment.
To illustrate the pure league quality adjustment for Rixey, I compare to Faber, who pitched around the same amount of time.
WARP1 - WARP3
Faber: 97.2 - 84.5
Rixey: 98.9 - 81.0
Raw drop of 12.7 for Faber, % drop of 13.1
Raw drop of 17.9 for Rixey, % drop of 18.1
Yes, the NL of that era really did stink.
As for peak...
WARP1 (not 3...no timelining or even league quality here)
5 best for Ruffing: 9.0, 8.7, 8.2, 8.1, 8.0
5 best for Rixey: 8.9, 8.3, 7.6, 7.5, 7.3
And as a side note, career WARP1 (again, not WARP3)
Ruffing: 113.4
Rixey: 98.9
Guess this is just a simple WS vs. WARP argument in many ways. The two look like dead ringers by Win Shares, while by WARP1, Ruffing looks like Ted Lyons, while Rixey looks like the pitching Jake Beckley. Add in league quality and any timelining....
Being a fighter pilot, like Ted Williams or the British fast bowler Ken Farnes (shot down in 1941, which is why Australia won the Ashes in 1946-53), is a rather different matter.)
Probably 25% credit not 50%, in which case Joss is in my consideration set but not on my ballot -- assume another 120 wins in a full career (shorter than it would have been 50 years later) then 50% gets you to 220, on ballot, but 25% gets you to 190, which isn't.
I'll be away on business most of next week anyway. Happy 1956 discussion to all; I look forward to see the consensus on Joe Gordon, and his twin Bobby Doerr next year.
baseballlibrary has one late April data point.
"April 20, 1910: Cleveland's Addie Joss pitches his 2nd no-hitter 1–0 over Chicago. Joss's 10 assists help prevent any infield spoilers. Terry Turner's 6th inning double off Doc White scores the Naps only run."
Retrosheet has his 10th start on June 9. Start 11 is July 11, the 12th and final start was July 25. I don't know when lone 1910 relief appearance was.
Doesn't that really depend upon what level you set for a "replacement corpse"?
If Joss was finished after July 25, then how much dead credit could anyone give him? His career as an excellent pitcher was ended by arm trouble. Death only denied him a chance to attempt a comeback.
Of "corpse," Matt. :-)
If Joss was finished after July 25, then how much dead credit could anyone give him? His career as an excellent pitcher was ended by arm trouble. Death only denied him a chance to attempt a comeback.
If Joss' career was ended due to arm trouble, then the concept of death credit ends right there for Addie.
DARTH KARL: Don't act so surprised your Docness, I've needed a new Pet Candidate for months since Caruthers was elected and Beckley's candidacy fizzled, in part thanks to your never voting for him.
DOC C: I don't know what you're talking about, I'm a member of the HOM electorate on a Negro-Leauge-research mission to Mexico...
DARTH KARL: You are part of the anti-Beckley alliance and a traitor! Take him away!
If anyone has access to the Plain Dealer files for March-April 1911, they would provide corroboration in detail, I think.
Impressive...your post...was!
:-)
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