BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: 1956 Results: Appling and Suttles Are Permanent Guests of the Hall of Merit!

Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Monday, July 25, 2005

1956 Results: Appling and Suttles Are Permanent Guests of the Hall of Merit!

In his first year of eligibility, longtime White Sox shortstop Luke Appling earned 92% of all possible votes to win induction.

In his eleventh year of eligibility, Negro League power hitter Mule Suttles became the second candidate elected this “year.” With his induction, we now have passed the HOF with 19 NeL inductees.

Rounding out the top-ten were: John Beckwith, Billy Herman, Stan Hack, Joe Medwick, Red Ruffing, Hughie Jennings, Earl Averill and Wes Ferrell.

RK   LY  Player                   PTS  Bal   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1  n/e  Luke Appling            1012   46  31  6  2  2     2           2        1      
 2    3  Mule Suttles             743   41   6 10  6  3  6  1  2     1  3  2           1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3    4  John Beckwith            642   41   3  8  4  2  4  4  2  1  2  2  1  2  1  3  2
 4    5  Billy Herman             525   38      4  5  2  3  4  3  3     2  4  1  3  1  3
 5    7  Stan Hack                386   32         3  1  2  1  3  3  4  4  5  1  2  2  1
 6    6  Joe Medwick              353   28      2  2  2  1  3  2  3  1  1  2  2  2  2  3
 7    8  Red Ruffing              353   25      1  1  5  5  1  3  2     1  2  1  3      
 8    9  Hughie Jennings          318   20   2  2  4  3     3     2           1  1  1  1
 9   11  Earl Averill             284   23      1  1  3  1  2  1  2  1  1  3  3  1     3
10   10  Wes Ferrell              281   22   1  1  1     3  1  2     3  2  2  3  1     2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11   13  Eppa Rixey               262   21      1  1  2  1  3  1  3  1  1     1  1  3  2
12   12  Biz Mackey               246   22         1  1  1  3  2  2     1  1  2  3  3  2
13   14  Clark Griffith           239   20         2  2  1  2  1  1  1  2  1     4  2  1
14   17T George Sisler            218   18      1  2  1  1  1  1  1  2        1  4  1  2
15   15  Jake Beckley             218   16   1     2  2  1  1     2  2  1     1  2  1   
16   16  Cool Papa Bell           212   18         2  2     1     1  3  1  2  2  2  1  1
17   17T George Van Haltren       204   16         1  2  1  2  2  1  1  1  2  1     1  1
18   21  Cannonball Dick Redding  163   13         3        1  2     1  2  1  1     1  1
19   23  Hugh Duffy               161   13      1     1  1  1  1  1  1  2     1     2  1
20   19  Joe Sewell               154   14         1     1     2  1  2     1  2  1  1  2
21   22  Pete Browning            143   10      1  1  1  3              1  1  1     1   
22   25  Cupid Childs             141   12            1  2     2     1  1  2     1  1  1
23   20  Mickey Welch             133    9      2           2  2     1        1  1      
24   27  José Méndez              125   11               1  1  1  1  2  1     1  2  1   
25  n/e  Joe Gordon               119   12               1     2     2     1     1  3  2
26   26  Gavy Cravath             119    9   1  1        1        2           1  1  1  1
27   24  Bucky Walters            116   10            1        2  2     2  1        1  1
28   30  Dobie Moore              114    9      1        1     1  1  1  1  1  1        1
29   32  Charley Jones            110    7      1     1  1  1  1  1  1                  
30   28  Tommy Leach              106    9            1           3  2     1  1     1   
31   31  Rube Waddell              99   10                     1  1  2        3  1  1  1
32   29  Wally Schang              81    6   1                 1     1  1  2            
33   33  Edd Roush                 74    7      1                    1     1  1  1     2
34  n/e  Alejandro Oms             68    6            1           1  1  1     1        1
35   35  Burleigh Grimes           66    5               1  2           1     1         
36   34  Roger Bresnahan           63    7         1                       1  1  1     3
37T  38  Dizzy Dean                62    6               1        1        2        1  1
37T  37  Bob Johnson               62    6            1              1  1     1     1  1
39   36  Larry Doyle               62    5               1  1        1     1  1         
40   40  Bill Monroe               53    5                  1     1     1           2   
41   41  Tommy Bridges             42    4                           1  2        1      
42   42  Ernie Lombardi            42    3      1                       1        1      
43   39  John McGraw               39    4                     1              2     1   
44   43  Chuck Klein               38    3                  1        1  1               
45   45  Ben Taylor                27    2            1                    1            
46T  47  Wally Berger              23    2                        1        1            
46T  44  Sam Rice                  23    2                        1        1            
48  n/e  Addie Joss                22    2                     1                 1      
49   46  Dick Lundy                20    2                        1                 1   
50   57T Carl Mays                 18    2                              1           1   
51T  49  Ed Cicotte                17    1            1                                 
51T  48  Pie Traynor               17    1            1                                 
53T  56  George J. Burns           15    2                                       1  1   
53T  60  Ed Williamson             15    2                                       1  1   
55   51  Tommy Bond                14    1                     1                        
56   52T Dolf Luque                12    1                           1                  
57  n/e  Leroy Matlock             11    1                              1               
58T  54T Lefty Gomez                9    1                                    1         
58T  54T Sam Leever                 9    1                                    1         
58T  57T Vic Willis                 9    1                                    1         
61T  61T Buzz Arlett                7    1                                          1   
61T  57T Spotswood Poles            7    1                                          1   
63T n/e  Frank Chance               6    1                                             1
63T  50  Hack Wilson                6    1                                             1
Dropped Out: Bill Byrd(61T), Fielder Jones(52T).

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: July 25, 2005 at 01:16 PM | 23 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: July 26, 2005 at 12:02 AM (#1497444)

Congratulations to the new inductees!

2. OCF Posted: July 26, 2005 at 12:45 AM (#1497570)

John - I only count 46 ballots. (And Appling 1012, Suttles 743, etc.)

Re-check: There are 62 posts on the ballot thread. Of those, 16 are not the beginnings of ballots.

#1,3,5,19,28,35,36,37,41,47,52,53,55,59,61,62 are the posts that are not (the heads of) ballots.

3. Howie Menckel Posted: July 26, 2005 at 12:46 AM (#1497575)

All-time 'vote points totals' leaders, through 1956

JENNINGS 15438
VAN HALTREN 14902.5
DUFFY 14369.5
BECKLEY 14303
Pike 13399
GRIFFITH 13161
BROWNING 12412.5
Thompson 12349
Bennett 11503
WADDELL 11175

Caruthers 10704
(RYAN 10507.5)
WELCH 10352
CHILDS 10192
H Stovey 9576
BECKWITH 9266
Start 8378.5
McGinnity 8232
Pearce 8073
McVey 7985.5

Grant 7969.5
Suttles 7696
BRESNAHAN 7215
T LEACH 7005
RIXEY 6816

(Sisler 6336, C Jones 6051, Sewell 5184, Monroe 5111, Ferrell 4257, Williamson 4245, Doyle 4186, Roush 4139, Redding 3816, Mendez 3813)

Notes: Beckley picks up 54 on Duffy, now only 66.5 out of 3rd place.... Griffith picks up 239, now trails No. 5 Pike by 238.... Browning climbs to 7th... Ryan still dead... Suttles finishes 273.5 behind Grant in race for Negro League No. 2 behind Beckwith; they are Nos. 21-22... Rixey bumps Galvin out of the top 25.

4. OCF Posted: July 26, 2005 at 12:53 AM (#1497617)

As near as I can reconstruct it the "extra" ballot that seems to have been mixed in above had Beckwith 1st and Appling 2nd and voted for Suttles (but lower), Herman, Hack, and Jennings but not for Medwick or Ruffing.

5. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: July 26, 2005 at 01:04 AM (#1497657)

It was my ballot, OCF. For some reason, it was in Kelly from SD's space. How it got there I have no idea since his spot is no where near mine. Oh, well...

6. OCF Posted: July 26, 2005 at 02:03 AM (#1497833)

Debugging complete; I agree with the posted results.

Except for Appling, a backlog year. The average consensus score was +0.2, which was the lowest since 1945. The highest possible consensus score was 17.

Highs and lows in consensus scores:

dan b: 10
Rusty Priske: 10
Carl G: 10
jschmeagol: 10
Tiboreau: 9

...

sunnyday2: -9
Dolf Lucky: -9
Gadfly: -13
yest: -14
karlmagnus: -23

I gues karl outdid himself in his quest to be the outlier. At least yest did have Appling at #1.

My own score was +5. That's where it's mostly been lately - about halfway between the mean and the highest scores. Now that Suttles is elected, it might go up a little. Or maybe not.

7. OCF Posted: July 26, 2005 at 02:13 AM (#1497882)

The only 1956 voter who wasn't a 1955 voter was Max Parkinson. (He has voted in 6 of the last 10 years.) Missing: Adam Schafer, Craig B, and KJOK from 1955, and David C. Jones, Kelly from SD, and Eric Enders from other years in the last 5. That's the first ballot that KJOK has missed since at least 1921.

8. PhillyBooster Posted: July 26, 2005 at 02:18 AM (#1497898)

I'm back in the great unwashed middle! No more outlier status for me! And I didn't even have Appling at #1.

9. PhillyBooster Posted: July 26, 2005 at 02:18 AM (#1497899)

Now, if I could just convince 45 more people to vote for Dolf Luque . . .

10. OCF Posted: July 26, 2005 at 02:21 AM (#1497912)

That's a -4 for PhillyBooster, putting him within ±1 of Jeff M, favre, Michael Bass, Rick A, Ron Wargo, and John Murphy.

11. PhillyBooster Posted: July 26, 2005 at 02:33 AM (#1497952)

Obviously, the rest of the electorate did a much better job this year.

12. karlmagnus Posted: July 26, 2005 at 02:38 AM (#1497972)

Not entirely unpersuasive; my campaign for Addie Joss already has another follower :-)). As more come to realise his MERIT, my consensus score will soar!

13. sunnyday2 Posted: July 26, 2005 at 02:57 AM (#1498055)

karl, actually Joss has been on my ballot for most of the last decade or so, usually quite low (13-15) and sometimes not (16-18). But not new to my ballot.

14. karlmagnus Posted: July 26, 2005 at 12:13 PM (#1498737)

Sunnyday2, it was his disappearance from the lists (presumably you lowering him from 15 to 16) that caused me to look at him again, as I suddenly realized he was certainly better than Dean and arguably better than Koufax. Now all the have to do is persuage the REST of the electorate :-))

15. sunnyday2 Posted: July 26, 2005 at 12:17 PM (#1498738)

karl, considering I am 5th from the bottom in consensus scores (of course, my hat is off to you as the kind of iconoclasts!), and as a long-time supporter of Ed Williamson and Tommy Bond, my ability to persuade the rest of the electorate must be considered to be minimal and the very most.

But for now I am pretty set on my top pitchers including Bond and Joss as well as Waddell and Mendez. Gimme a P, gimme an E, gimme an A, gimme a K. What's that spell?

16. Carl G Posted: July 26, 2005 at 01:55 PM (#1498810)

'I suddenly realized he was certainly better than Dean and arguably better than Koufax.'

Looking purely at ERA+ numbers, I could see how you'd draw that conclusion. However, when considering how many contemporary pitchers were putting up similar numbers, Koufax and Dean are clearly better. In Koufax and Dean's leagues, there's usually something like 2; maybe 3 guys who were even close to them in a given year. You could find 8-10 putting up similar numbers to Joss.

17. sunnyday2 Posted: July 26, 2005 at 02:12 PM (#1498833)

Carl, I understand your point but I think that's something of an overstatement. I mean, we're not talking ERA here, we're talking ERA+. Joss' was much better than Dean's. Koufax is a bit of a different story.

18. Carl G Posted: July 26, 2005 at 05:24 PM (#1499265)

Well, I was going to retort that there's still many contemporaries just as good or better than Joss. But, in looking them up, I found Matthewson and Brown that were for sure better; and McGinnity, Walsh, and Waddell who may have been better, but I'm not certain. I'm still very comfortable in putting Koufax in front of him in 15 'years', but I'm going to have to re-examine my pitcher rankings for this election. I guess thats why we discuss; so no one gets too comfortable with the 'correctness' of their own lists.

19. DavidFoss Posted: July 26, 2005 at 05:46 PM (#1499322)

One of the arguments against Joss back was that he didn't eat up a lot of innings in his peak seasons. The electorate favored McGinnity over him because of this.

20. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: July 26, 2005 at 05:59 PM (#1499361)

Gimme a P, gimme an E, gimme an A, gimme a K. What's that spell?

Ferrell. ;)

21. PhillyBooster Posted: July 26, 2005 at 07:11 PM (#1499534)

My problem with Joss has always been his relative durability. Joss's #1 year was 1908, where he threw 325 Innings at a 205 ERA+. Pretty fantastic.

But Ed Walsh threw 425 Innings at a 163 ERA+.

Given a choice of 425 innings of Walsh or 325 innings of Joss (plus an extra 100 IP of Jake Thielman, Cy Falkenberg, and their combined 63 ERA+), I simply have to take Walsh. Mathewson and McQuinlan were also comparable in the NL.

And that was his BEST year. I've got nothing against all-peak candidates, but when they are at that peak, they better well be the best player at their position.

Dean's best year was 1934, where he pitched 312 innings, at a 159 ERA+. Head to head, Joss's best year looks better, but Dean's IP and ERA+ were comparable to leaders, 3 fewer innings than Mungo, 2 fewer than Hubbell, and Hubbell the only guy with a higher ERA+ in comparable innings.

In 1966, Koufax pitched 323 innings, with a 190 ERA+. Both of those led the league, and the pitchers with comparable innings were all well-below in ERA+.

Looked at in isolation, they are all 325 IP seasons with high ERA+, but in terms of contextual value, Koufax's season trumps Deans, which trumps Joss's.

22. karlmagnus Posted: July 26, 2005 at 07:47 PM (#1499628)

Joss isn't really an all peak candidate; he had several top years, and doesn't have the spike of Dean 1934. He's a career candidate who died suddenly. Different pattern, and should be treated differently.

23. sunnyday2 Posted: July 26, 2005 at 08:27 PM (#1499733)

I would take Koufax over Joss but Sandy's not eligible yet.

As for Dean, I think Joss' top 5 seasons are as good or better than Dean's top 5 and with Joss there are 4 more left over that are almost as good.

I've always used the shorthand that I'm a peak voter, but I really mean peak/prime, and Joss blows Diz away on prime.

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Monday, July 25, 2005

1956 Results: Appling and Suttles Are Permanent Guests of the Hall of Merit!

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