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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Monday, October 03, 20051961 Results: The “Earl of Snohomish” is Now the Earl of the Hall of Merit!In his 16th year on the ballot, Cleveland Indians great Earl Averill was inducted into the Hall of Merit by the slimmest of margins over Yankees legend Red Rufiing. Rounding out the top-ten were: Joe Medwick (he was very close himself!), Wes Ferrell, Biz Mackey, Eppa Rixey, Clark Griffith, George Sisler, George Van Haltren , and Cool Papa Bell. A record 76 candidates found their name on a ballot for this election, breaking the “old” record of 74. RK LY Player PTS Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 4 Earl Averill 475 35 2 4 4 1 2 4 1 2 4 1 2 2 2 4 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 5 Red Ruffing 462 30 5 1 3 2 5 2 2 2 3 1 2 2 3 3 Joe Medwick 454 33 2 6 3 1 1 2 4 2 4 2 3 2 1 4 6 Wes Ferrell 420 28 4 3 2 2 1 1 3 1 3 2 1 3 2 5 7 Biz Mackey 392 31 1 1 2 2 1 3 3 4 2 2 1 2 3 2 2 6 9 Eppa Rixey 389 28 3 3 2 2 1 2 2 1 2 3 2 3 2 7 8 Clark Griffith 372 23 6 1 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 2 8 10 George Sisler 345 26 1 4 1 3 3 2 1 1 2 2 1 1 3 1 9 12 George Van Haltren 318 22 3 1 2 1 3 2 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 10 11 Cool Papa Bell 288 22 4 1 1 2 2 1 2 3 2 1 1 2 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11 13 Jake Beckley 275 19 1 5 2 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 1 12 14 Cupid Childs 258 19 1 2 1 3 1 3 4 2 1 1 13 17 Hugh Duffy 250 19 3 3 2 2 1 1 2 1 1 2 1 14 15 Pete Browning 246 17 3 1 1 2 1 4 1 1 1 1 1 15 20 Cannonball Dick Redding 241 19 1 1 2 2 1 2 1 2 2 2 2 1 16 16 Willard Brown 232 19 1 1 1 3 1 1 1 1 5 2 1 1 17 19 Bobby Doerr 231 17 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 3 1 2 1 18 18 Joe Sewell 228 18 1 2 2 1 1 2 1 2 1 2 3 19 22 José Méndez 221 16 1 1 2 3 2 1 3 2 1 20 23 Dobie Moore 211 14 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 21 n/e Ralph Kiner 196 15 1 3 1 2 1 6 1 22 24 Joe Gordon 192 18 1 1 2 1 3 2 2 3 1 2 23 21 Mickey Welch 174 11 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 24 27 Bucky Walters 169 13 2 2 1 2 2 4 25 25 Alejandro Oms 165 12 1 1 2 1 3 1 1 1 1 26 28 Charley Jones 162 12 1 2 3 2 1 1 1 1 27 26 Rube Waddell 148 12 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 2 1 28 32 Edd Roush 144 13 1 1 1 3 1 3 1 2 29 29T Tommy Leach 129 9 1 2 2 1 1 2 30 29T Burleigh Grimes 128 9 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 31 31 Gavy Cravath 127 9 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 32 34 Roger Bresnahan 120 10 2 1 1 1 2 2 1 33 33 Wally Schang 117 8 1 2 1 1 1 2 34 37 Larry Doyle 101 7 2 1 1 1 1 1 35 36 Quincy Trouppe 96 9 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 36 35 Bob Elliott 95 9 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 37 38 Bill Monroe 78 7 1 1 1 2 2 38 41T Bob Johnson 69 7 1 1 1 1 3 39 40 John McGraw 59 4 2 1 1 40 41T Tommy Bridges 57 5 1 1 1 1 1 41 43 Dizzy Dean 57 4 1 1 1 1 42 45T Jimmy Ryan 54 6 1 3 2 43 n/e Vern Stephens 51 4 2 1 1 44 44 Ernie Lombardi 45 4 1 3 45 39 Charlie Keller 44 4 1 1 1 1 46 48 Dizzy Trout 43 3 2 1 47 49 Ed Williamson 41 4 1 1 1 1 48 45T Sam Rice 40 4 2 1 1 49 50 Ben Taylor 40 3 1 1 1 50 55 Carl Mays 37 4 1 2 1 51 47 Luke Easter 34 2 1 1 52 52T Addie Joss 33 3 1 1 1 53 52T Dutch Leonard 29 2 1 1 54 57 Bobo Newsom 27 3 1 1 1 55T 54 Chuck Klein 27 2 1 1 55T 51 Vic Willis 27 2 1 1 57 67 Dick Lundy 21 3 1 1 1 58T 60T Fielder Jones 18 1 1 58T 68 Leroy Matlock 18 1 1 58T 58 Pie Traynor 18 1 1 61T 56 George J. Burns 17 2 1 1 61T 59 Dom DiMaggio 17 2 1 1 61T 71 Lefty Gomez 17 2 1 1 64T 62T Tommy Bond 17 1 1 64T 60T Ed Cicotte 17 1 1 64T 62T Johnny Pesky 17 1 1 64T 65T Bobby Veach 17 1 1 68T 69 Frank Chance 15 2 1 1 68T 64 Hack Wilson 15 2 1 1 70 65T Dolf Luque 15 1 1 71 70 Fred Dunlap 10 1 1 72T 72T Sam Leever 9 1 1 72T n/e Joe Tinker 9 1 1 74 72T Rabbit Maranville 8 1 1 75 n/e Tommy Henrich 7 1 1 76 n/e Tony Mullane 6 1 1 Ballots Cast: 49 John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy
Posted: October 03, 2005 at 09:43 PM | 51 comment(s)
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 04, 2005 at 12:05 AM (#1660563)Nobody sent me their tally, so there's probably a mistake(s).
As previously noted, the 76 candidates with votes breaks the old record by 3.
As for the sentiment John expressed in #1 - I had Ruffing first, Medwick 3rd, and Averill 9th myself.
They're going to make it eventually, OCF. They've been around long enough that they're not going to do a "Sewell" on you.
It checks now; I don't think there's a mistake.
:-0
Mean: -13.8. New record low; old record -10.3 in 1958.
Best possible: +2.
DanG: -4
Howie Menckel: -5
Rusty Priske: -6
Adam Schafer: -6
andrew siegel: -6
Chris J: -6
danb: -6
OCF: -7
...
favre: -14 (median)
...
yest: -21
Patrick W: -21
Ron Wargo: -21
John Murphy: -22
karlmagnus: -22
KJOK: -23
Gadfly: -23
Dolf Lucky: -25
karlmagnus: -22
Must be the "Eagle Eye" effect. ;-)
So here's a question: in the category of Red Sox shortstops who could really hit, but didn't really have quite enough career, who would you prefer: Stephens or Nomar Garciaparra? (That's assuming that the rest of Garciaparra's career won't add very much value.)
Once upon a time we thought Averill and Sewell were frick and frack!
Ruffing is on 3 more ballots than last year, Medwick only 1.
The other big mover is Redding from 20th to 15th. And whatever happened to Averill, well, maybe it wasn't moneyball, because Moneyball Charlie Keller, who tried to hop a ride on the Kiner Train (which was perhaps his first mistake), dropped from 39 to 44.
Other moneyballers: Browning up from 15 to 14 which is however the equivalent of dropping a spot (passed by Duffy). Kiner new at a relatively miserable #21, Bob Johnson up from 41 to 38, John McGraw up from 40 to 39 which is no improvement at all, Chuck Klein drops from 54 to 55, Frank Chance from 69 to 68T, Hack Wilson down from 64 to 68T.
Moneyball is not the ticket to the HoM.
Jennings 16976
VAN HALTREN 16157.5
BECKLEY 15515
DUFFY 15390.5
GRIFFITH 14642
Pike 13399
BROWNING 13391.5
Thompson 12349
WADDELL 11764
Bennett 11503
CHILDS 11252
WELCH 11239
Caruthers 10704
RYAN 10701.5
Beckwith 9920
H Stovey 9576
Start 8378.5
RIXEY 8360
McGinnity 8232
Pearce 8073
McVey 7985.5
Grant 7969.5
Sisler 7731
BRESNAHAN 7728
Suttles 7696
(TLeach 7558, C Jones 6689, Sewell 6151, Ferrell 6007, Monroe 5402, Redding 4708, Roush 4631, Mendez 4626, Doyle 4574, Williamson 4402, Ruffing 3346, CP Bell 3271, Medwick 3158)
I was one of the "new Averill" voters. Not classifiable as "strategic" in any way, since I didn't have any of this year's Top 4 on my ballot last year, although I had both Averill and Ruffing in my extended 1960 "Top 25" list, and for the past several years that I posted it.
For me, the analysis when I'm picking from a sub-15 guy to add to the ballot in a weak year starts with "Who do I have the best chance of being wrong about excluding?" That likely gives an advantage to guys like Averill and Oms (my 14 and 15 new votes this year), who earned credit of questionable worth in alternate leagues.
It's ironic, I guess, that the same "uncertainty" factor that hurts players in my early analysis actually helps them later on.
To simplify, if I rated all of my players on a scale of 1-10, and I've already voted for all of my 9s and 10s, I go to my pile of 8s and think, "Which one of these guys might I be wrong about, and actually be a "9"? Averill is more likely to be a missing 9, but could also be an overrated 6 or 7. But I'm going to vote for the guy who I think is a 25% chance of being a "9" than the guy I am 100% sure is an 8.
To change the subject, it looks like only 7 candidates were named on half of the ballot, which I would guess is also a record.
I will say that Ruffing or Medwick will never make my ballot, so if it's close between them again, I wont be responsible. :-)
BTW, Marc, Dobie Moore just missed my ballot.
1932 VanHaltren
1940 Sewell
1942 Rixey
1958 Medwick (also 1959, 1960)
I was not a new Averill voter, but I was close -- he returned to my ballot in 1960. I think the thing that made me vote for him over Medwick was position/fielding. That A+ in CF jumped out at me.
What were all the 'wows' about in the week? Were there times when several voters were tied? Did Averill come from far behind?
What I think hurts Stephens is that many of his best yeras came during the war, years which most of us gave him a discount. In this sense, there is some chance of his candidacy being revived if we come to some conclusion that we are docking too much during the war. I only dock 10%, however, so maybe not.
Because of the war discounts, I would take Garciaparra. I think that his best years were monsters in tougher leagues than Stehpens'.
Stephens is not a serious candidate, I believe, because many of his best years came during the war. in this sense, however, his candidacy could be revived should we decide that war discounts aren't fair or something like that.
As to your question, I would choose Garciaparra. His best years came in leagues that weren't watered down at all.
The lead changed hands quite a few times during the week between the top three candidates. I thought it was going to be Ruffing, but Averill pulled ahead at the end.
I dunno about some of those Moneyballers on your list. Browning and Klein had batting averages that were way too high (even compared to contemporaries) and walk rates that were nothing to get too excited about. McGraw has a case due to all the walks, but he also hit .334 for his career.
Moneyball is not the ticket to the HoM.
I dunno, if you look at the HOM-not-HOF list and compare it to the HOF-not-HOM list, I'll bet you'll see more moneyball character in the HOM list. Hack vs Traynor, Wilson vs JJohnson, Sheckard vs ????. Maybe some the other way, I don't have a full list.
The big deal, though, is that there is no salary cap in the HOM. To be a Moneyball player, you have a have at least one major strike against you other wise you wouldn't have been underrated in the first place. We get so many shoo-in candidates coming in at 1B/OF (especially from the 20s & 30s) that the 'underrated' guys often don't get a chance to replace the 'overrated' guys because we end up not elected either. There are a ton of HOF-ers from this era we aren't inducting.
Ah, OK, I guess I didn't catch that before, I must have just jumped right into the comparisons. I figured that Moneyball also implied some sort of penalty for high AVG (as high-BA guys wouldn't be "cheap"). My bad.
What else happened? Anybody?
I suspect that Chris Cobb's recent careful analysis of the outfield candidates was influential to some voters, just as his Negro League studies have been.
I'm also personally pleased because Averill was also the first candidate for whom our minor league translations have been influential. He may turn out to be the only candidate we elect for whom minor league credit was a deciding factor for many voters (that is, unless Gavy Cravath catches a second wind).
I'm sorry I could not get a ballot in this "year." The move down to San Diego has been more difficult than my wife and I assumed. My vote would not have changed the results as Averill and Ferrell are the only top 12 finishers who would have been on my ballot.
Things have settled down enough that you will definitely see a 1962 ballot from me.
I had Averill on my ballot but I am hardly blown away by a ten-year career with nothing even remotely approaching a "historic" type of peak. I still don't see ten years of Averill as being on the same planet as nine years of Kiner. Much less twelve years of Medwick, or seven years of Sisler I and seven more of Sisler II.
I myself am disappionted that I'm not down there with the guys that are really having the most fun anymore. Though to be truthful, I don't understand it. I forget how the consensus scores are supposed to work.
I mean, only 4 of the top 15 are on my ballot. Averill is way down in 15th, and then there's Medwick, Sisler and Browning (the moneyball hitters!). How that is not a low consensus I don't know.
Nice one, Eric. :-)
Thank god! (Thanks, O, for the clarification.)
Anyway, it looked great in the preview pane.
While certainly far from a consensus, your election of Mr. Averill was welcomed by this HOM lurker.
Now if we could make some real progress and get Beckley and/or GVH or Duffy elected........
(progression)
1898-1901 -- Deacon White (elected, age 50)
1901-1912 -- George Wright (elected, age 54)
1912-1927 -- Joe Start (elected, age 69; died, age 84)
1927-1937 -- George Wright (age 80; died, age 90)
1937-1939 -- Deacon White (age 89; died, age 91)
1939-1947 -- Jack Glasscock (age 79; died, age 87)
1947-1955 -- Cy Young (age 79; died, age 88)
1955-1964 -- Grant Johnson (age 83; died, either age 92 or age 91 and 11 months)
Anyone have a date-of-birth and date-of-death for Grant Johnson?
I have years (1874-1964) but nothing more specific.
I have years (1874-1964) but nothing more specific.
According to the 1900 Census, Grant V. Johnson was born September of 1872. He's listed as black, a baseball player, and was living in Findlay, Ohio (his birthplace) at the time, so I'm 100% positive it's him.
I corrected your chart above. Nice project, Jim.
Johnson will pass the mantle to Elmer Flick in 1964, who will then break the age record in Jan of 1968 and add 3 more years to that record (2 days past his 95th birthday).
I haven't looked in complete detail later, but Stan Coveleski will fall 4 months short of Flick's age record. Bill Terry is another nonogenarian.
Earl Averill was better, but Snohomish wasn't a one-Earl baseball town!
Patrick W: -21
Ron Wargo: -21
John Murphy: -22
karlmagnus: -22
KJOK: -23
Gadfly: -23
Dolf Lucky: -25
Next year I'll regain my lead when I almost definatly leaving Robinson and Irvin off my ballot
Lack of black ink?
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