BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: 1963 Results: Campanella and Irvin Get the Hall of Merit Certificate of Approval!

Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Monday, October 24, 2005

1963 Results: Campanella and Irvin Get the Hall of Merit Certificate of Approval!

In his first year of eligibility, Brooklyn Dodger great Roy Campanella lapped his competition with a studly 98% of all possible points to earn the top spot for induction into the Hall of Merit.

In only his second year on the ballot, Newark Eagles and New York Giants star Monte Irvin achieved immortality by obtaining 61% of all possible points to win the second spot this “year.” Hopefully, Mr. Irvin will be pleased at the speed he was elected. :-) He also becomes the 22nd player to be inducted into the HoM that played the majority of his career in the Negro Leagues.

Rounding out the top-ten were: Wes Ferrell, Red Ruffing, Joe Medwick, Eppa Rixey, Biz Mackey, Clark Griffith, George Van Haltren, and Cool Papa Bell .

A record 78 candidates found their names on a ballot this election (the previous record was 76).

RK   LY  Player                   PTS  Bal   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1  n/e  Roy Campanella          1156   49  46     2     1                              
 2    3  Monte Irvin              721   44     13  2  6  6  2  2  1  3  2  2  1  3     1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 3    4  Wes Ferrell              417   30      4  4     4  1  1  4  2  1  1  2  4  1  1
 4    5  Red Ruffing              401   27      4  2  1  3  2  8     1  3        1  1  1
 5    6  Joe Medwick              400   31      2  4  2  4  1     3     3  1  4  3  3  1
 6    7  Eppa Rixey               324   23      1  1  6  2  2  1  3  1  1  1  2  1  1   
 7    8  Biz Mackey               322   26      1     2  2  2  1  3  3  6  2     2     2
 8    9  Clark Griffith           322   21      5  2  1     2  4  1     1  1  3     1   
 9   11  George Van Haltren       272   20      1  3  2  3  1  1  2  1     2        2  2
10   12  Cool Papa Bell           269   22      1  3        2  2  1  3  2  2     3  1  2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11   10  George Sisler            264   22   1     1  2  1  1  4     2  1  2     1  2  4
12   13  Jake Beckley             259   18   1  2  2  1  3     1  1     2  1     2  1  1
13   15  Cupid Childs             241   19         1  2     3  1  5  1  1  3           2
14   14  Hugh Duffy               221   18         1  2  2  1  2  2  1  1     1  2  2  1
15   18  Willard Brown            215   20            1  1  2  2     1  2  2  3  2  3  1
16   16  Pete Browning            210   16      2  2  1     2        1  2  2     1  1  2
17   20  Dobie Moore              201   14      1  3  2     2        2  1     1  2      
18   19  Bobby Doerr              197   16         1  3     3        1  2     4     1  1
19   17  Cannonball Dick Redding  196   18            1  2  1  1  3  1     1  1  1  4  2
20   23  Mickey Welch             185   11      4  1     2     2                 1  1   
21   22  Joe Sewell               181   15         2     2  1  1     2  1  1  2     3   
22   21  José Méndez              180   14      1     1  1  3  1  1     1  1  1  1  2   
23   26  Joe Gordon               168   16         1  1     1     1     1  4  3  1  1  2
24   24  Ralph Kiner              165   15                  1  2  2     4  2  2     2   
25   28  Bucky Walters            149   11         2  2           1  4  1           1   
26   25  Alejandro Oms            148   11         1  2     2     2  1     2     1      
27   27  Charley Jones            136   10      1  2        1     1  2  1        1     1
28   29  Tommy Leach              117    9      1     1     1  1  1     1  1     1     1
29   32  Rube Waddell             116   10      1        1     1     1  1     3     1  1
30   31  Burleigh Grimes          115    9      1        1  1  1     1     2  1        1
31   30  Edd Roush                103    9      1           1           2  2     2  1   
32   35  Quincy Trouppe            97    9               1  1  1     1  1        2  1  1
33   33  Larry Doyle               97    7         2        2     1        1     1      
34   37  Roger Bresnahan           95    9         2                 2     1        1  3
35   36  Wally Schang              89    7      1           1        2     1  1  1      
36   38  Bob Elliott               87    9               1     1     1     1  1     2  2
37   34  Gavy Cravath              82    6   1        1     1              1  1     1   
38   40T Bob Johnson               57    6            1           1           1        3
39   39  John McGraw               56    4            1     1     1     1               
40   40T Tommy Bridges             52    5                        1  2        1        1
41   46  Phil Rizzuto              51    6                              1  1     2  2   
42   44  Charlie Keller            47    4                     2  1                    1
43   42  Jimmy Ryan                46    5                        1     1        1  2   
44   45  Vern Stephens             41    3                  1  1     1                  
45   47T Luke Easter               39    3               1     1              1         
46   51  Ed Williamson             37    4                           1        2     1   
47   58  Dizzy Dean                37    3               1           1        1         
48   47T Dizzy Trout               35    3                     1        1  1            
49   65T Frank Chance              34    4               1                             3
50   49  Vic Willis                33    3                        1  1           1      
51T  50  Sam Rice                  31    3                           2              1   
51T  56T Ben Taylor                31    3            1                          1     1
53   53  Ernie Lombardi            29    2      1                                      1
54   52  Carl Mays                 27    3                                 1  1  1      
55   54T Chuck Klein               27    2                     1  1                     
56T  54T Dutch Leonard             26    2                        2                     
56T  43  Bill Monroe               26    2         1                             1      
58   56T Addie Joss                24    2                     1           1            
59   61  Bobo Newsom               18    2                                    2         
60   59T Leroy Matlock             18    1         1                                    
61T  62T Ed Cicotte                17    1            1                                 
61T  62T Fielder Jones             17    1            1                                 
61T  59T Pie Traynor               17    1            1                                 
64T  65T Tommy Bond                16    1               1                              
64T  62T Johnny Pesky              16    1               1                              
64T  65T Bobby Veach               16    1               1                              
67   69  Dolf Luque                13    1                        1                     
68  n/e  Dom DiMaggio              12    2                                             2
69T  72T Fred Dunlap               10    1                                 1            
69T  75  Sam Leever                10    1                                 1            
71T n/e  Artie Wilson               9    1                                    1         
71T  70T Lefty Gomez                9    1                                    1         
71T  70T Joe Tinker                 9    1                                    1         
74T  72T Bus Clarkson               8    1                                       1      
74T  72T Hack Wilson                8    1                                       1      
76T  68  George J. Burns            7    1                                          1   
76T n/e  George Scales              7    1                                          1   
78  n/e  Al Rosen                   6    1                                             1
Ballots Cast: 49

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 24, 2005 at 02:04 PM | 26 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 01, 2005 at 01:12 AM (#1713858)

Congrats to Campy and Monte! BTW, does anyone know how to contact Mr. Irvin? He may be able to appreciate the honor and also the speed that he went into the HoM.

2. OCF Posted: November 01, 2005 at 01:26 AM (#1713877)

Debugging went smoothly; no discrepancies found.

Average consensus score -4.6; best possible +11.

Howie Menckel: +6
dan b: +5
DanG: +4
andrew siegel: +3
Tiboreau: +3
Adam Schafer: +2
Chris Cobb: +2
...
Esteban Rivera: -5 (median)
...
Gadfly: -11
EricC: -11
Mark Donelson: -12
Dolf Lucky: -12
karlmagnus: -16
yest: -17

I was at -1: above median, but a little lower rank than usual, due to my low placement of Irvin.

3. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: November 01, 2005 at 04:00 PM (#1714404)

Dr. Chaleeko's Hots 'n Nots

HOTS (Players who received more than one vote and (re)entered the top ten, finished as the runnerup, or moved three or more slots)
-Wes Ferrell (+1), in line for next backlog election.
-Frank Chance (+16)
-Dizzy Dean (+11)
-Ben Taylor (+5)
-Phil Rizzuto (+5)
-Ed Williamson (+5)
-Willard Brown (+3)
-Dobie Moore (+3)
-Mickey Welch (+3)
-Rube Waddell (+3)
-Joe Gordon (+3)
-Walters (+3)
-Trouppe (+3)
-Bresnahan (+3)
-GVH (+2), re-entered the top ten.
-CPB (+2), re-entered the top ten.

NOTS
-George Sisler (-2), fell out of top ten.
-Bill Monroe (-13)
-Gavy Cravath (-3)

4. Howie Menckel Posted: November 01, 2005 at 11:29 PM (#1715185)

Ah, glad to see the group come along to my way of thinking, lol!

All-time 'vote points totals' leaders, through 1963. Active for 1964 vote in CAPS

Van Haltren likely has to wait until the 1965 results to claim the top spot

Jennings 16976
VAN HALTREN 16675.5
BECKLEY 16006
DUFFY 15828.5
GRIFFITH 15242
BROWNING 13799.5
Pike 13399
Thompson 12349
WADDELL 11978
CHILDS 11705

WELCH 11592
Bennett 11503
RYAN 10788.5
Caruthers 10704
Beckwith 9920
H Stovey 9576
RIXEY 8983
Start 8378.5
SISLER 8244
McGinnity 8232

Pearce 8073
McVey 7985.5
Grant 7969.5
BRESNAHAN 7900
TLEACH 7777
(C Jones 6954, Ferrell 6793, Sewell 6492, Monroe 5469, Redding 5099, Mendez 4967, Roush 4833, Doyle 4762, Williamson 4467, Mackey 4316, Ruffing 4108, Medwick 3918, CP Bell 3775)

5. Daryn Posted: November 02, 2005 at 02:07 PM (#1715674)

324 points for 6th place is a new record low and really quite amazing.

6. OCF Posted: November 02, 2005 at 05:30 PM (#1716065)

Daryn is referring to ballot fragmentation, which is increasing. If we measure that by mean consensus score, the trend looks like this:

1921    4.8
1922   14.9
1923   15.8
1924   13.2
1925    5.3
1926    0.9
1927    3.3
1928    4.0
1929   -0.5
1930   -0.4
1931   -3.4
1932    1.1
1933    5.2
1934   21.9
1935   15.8
1936   15.3
1937    4.9
1938   -4.5
1939   -8.5
1940   -7.0
1941    5.2
1942   -9.0
1943    9.8
1944    9.2
1945   -2.7
1946    6.9
1947    8.9
1948    5.5
1949    1.8
1950    8.4
1951    6.5
1952   11.6
1953    8.1
1954    3.7
1955    3.9
1956    0.2
1957   -1.2
1958  -10.3
1959    1.0
1960   -9.9
1961  -13.8
1962    1.9
1963   -4.6

A simple regression line through that data is has a slope of about -0.24 per year. That regression line is at -1.6 in 1963 and would extrapolate to -11.5 by 2005.

Note also that the number of candidates receiving votes continues to increase. It's a fair guess that the mean consensus score for 1964 will be down around -10. Reese may be immediately elected, but he is not a unifying candidate.

7. sunnyday2 Posted: November 02, 2005 at 06:09 PM (#1716176)

And what will the consensus score be when we get around to electing Willard Brown and Pete Browning and Dobie Moore? ;-)

This pattern was destined to happen from the day Joe Domino got that twinkle in his eye.

8. Chris Cobb Posted: November 02, 2005 at 08:18 PM (#1716489)

This pattern was destined to happen from the day Joe Domino got that twinkle in his eye.

True, but in-depth discussion can slow the erosion of consensus.

9. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: November 02, 2005 at 08:35 PM (#1716526)

I'm not sure the ebbing consensus is worth worrying about. We're currently working with about the 15-25th best players at each position (historically speaking). When you drill down that far, it's highly unlikely we'll all agree about who those players are. That's just kind of how it is, and I don't think it's a problem. But that's just my opinion.

10. DavidFoss Posted: November 02, 2005 at 08:38 PM (#1716528)

Here's the level that I am contributing to the consensus. The final ranking of my top fifteen:

01/09/33/13/07
39/02/19/03/24
37/23/27/11/34

-- with 4/5/6/9/10/12/14/15 being left off my ballot.

I was the best friend of my top three (Campy/Griffith/Doyle).

That's a lot of people I'm leaving off the ballot now. Traditionally my consensus score hovers near the median (I've never been on either the top or bottom lists)

11. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: November 02, 2005 at 08:50 PM (#1716542)

David,

So you've probably got a career CS+ of 100? (CS+ = Relative Consensus Score)

Karlmagnus would have a CS+ of like 23. ; )

12. OCF Posted: November 02, 2005 at 10:14 PM (#1716720)

(CS+ = Relative Consensus Score)

You wanna be that way about it?

Let's make that the average over a career (since 1921) of (consensus score) - (that year's mean score).

Of our 50 currently active voters, 29 have positive averages and 21 have negative averages. (And the average of all these averages is +0.1 - it doesn't have to be exactly zero because not everyone votes every year, and we have a number of inactive voters, some with very negative consensus scores.)

1. Howie Menckel +7.1
2. Tiboreau +6.7
3. jschmeagol +6.5
4. Chris Cobb +6.4
5. Andrew M +5.3
6. Chris J +5.2
...
12. OCF +3.6
...
15. David Foss +2.7
...
24. Joe Dimino +1.5
...
29. Mark Donelson +0.1
...
45. John Murphy -6.7
46. KJOK -6.8
47. EricC -7.4
48. karlmagnus -10.1
49. Gadfly -10.5
50. yest -12.0

In 1963, David Foss was at -6, slighly below the mean.

13. Kelly in SD Posted: November 02, 2005 at 10:18 PM (#1716726)

I hate to ask this, but where do I rank?

Thanks

14. Daryn Posted: November 02, 2005 at 10:18 PM (#1716727)

Let's see the whole list -- I'd bet I come pretty close to 25.

15. OCF Posted: November 02, 2005 at 10:28 PM (#1716761)

OK, OK. And Daryn guesses well.

1.  Howie Menckel     7.1
2.  Tiboreau          6.7
3.  jschmeagol        6.5
4.  Chris Cobb        6.4
5.  Andrew M.         5.3
6.  Chris J           5.2
7.  favre             4.7
8.  Andrew Siegel     4.6
9.  Tom H             4.5
10. DanG              3.9
11. Devin McCullen    3.9
12. OCF               3.6
13. Trevor P          3.3
14. Brad G            3.1
15. David Foss        2.7
16. Ken Fischer       2.7
17. dan b             2.6
18. Adam Schafer      2.5
19. Rusty Priske      2.4
20. Don F             2.1
21. SWW               1.9
22. Rob Wood          1.8
23. Esteban Rivera    1.6
24, Joe Dimino        1.5
25. Al Peterson       1.2
26. Ron Wargo         0.9
27. daryn             0.9
28. Sean Gilman       0.7
29. Mark Donelson     0.1
30. Michael Bass     -0.4
31. Patrick W        -0.5
32. Dr. Chaleeko     -0.6
33. Thane of Bagarth -1.0
34. Rick A           -1.4
35. Jeff M           -1.5
36. Brent            -1.7
37. Max Parkinson    -1.7
38. PhillyBooster    -2.2
39. Jim Sp           -2.5
40. Mike Webber      -3.0
41. jimd             -3.6
42. Dolf Lucky       -4.5
43. Kelly in SD      -5.1
44. sunnyday2        -5.4
45. John Murphy      -6.7
46. KJOK             -6.8
47. EricC            -7.4
48. karlmagnus      -10.1
49. Gadfly          -10.5
50. yest            -12.0

16. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: November 02, 2005 at 10:52 PM (#1716825)

Thanks OCF, that's cool.

Wow, I must once have been pretty high on the positive side because, as I understand it, my scores have been closer to Yest than to the median lately.

17. sunnyday2 Posted: November 02, 2005 at 11:45 PM (#1716939)

>True, but in-depth discussion can slow the erosion of consensus.

Ya think?

There is of course no way to verify.

18. Howie Menckel Posted: November 03, 2005 at 12:35 AM (#1717006)

So does this mean that I'm waiting for you guys to find out where I should rank Pee Wee - or that y'all are waiting for me to rank him for you?

:)

19. OCF Posted: November 03, 2005 at 12:43 AM (#1717012)

Dr. Chaleeko was well above the mean in his first few years (1930-1933), dipped below, and then had a long run (1943-1952) just slightly above mean. He's been mostly below, and sometimes well below, the mean since then. Howie has never had a year below the mean.

20. sunnyday2 Posted: November 03, 2005 at 12:58 AM (#1717028)

I was way below average when the 19C mattered. Now I'm slightly below average. Considering all the difficulties with 19C numbers, I would guess most people whose profile vis-a-vis consensus has shifted over the years, it has to do with this.

21. Sean Gilman Posted: November 03, 2005 at 02:12 AM (#1717128)

Yee haw! I knew I was average!

22. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: November 03, 2005 at 07:40 AM (#1717332)

Right in the middle of the pack! So everyone just split the difference and vote like me!

23. DanG Posted: November 04, 2005 at 01:56 PM (#1718694)

I thought this illustration of ballot fragmentation was interesting. Rather than looking at total players receiving votes, this shows how many players were at each level of support; 5%, 10%, 20%, 30% and 40%.

4.50%9.50.50).509.50%
18982019131211
1899211715149
19002318161410
19012117151311
19022118151411
19032118151311
19042319141311
19052419141211
1906211813129
19072319151110
1908231914119
1909262115129
19102620141110
1911262015118
1912272015107
1913282317116
1914302216117
1915272117126
1916262218117
1917272218117
1918272218116
1919282018109
1920282119118
1921282518117
1922292318107
1923302313107
1924282316107
1925302617119
1926322715128
1927332716118
1928322617106
1929312518116
1930292618136
1931322818136
1932322517126
193334231793
193428221476
193532221576
193630221676
193733251774
1938382619104
1939382818114
194041281882
194136281553
1942402818113
194333241564
194434251474
194535291594
194635271564
194735251565
194837281565
194938291454
195037271455
195138281574
195237271255
195338231265
195437281484
195539281474
195640301574
195739291374
195841321593
195940281252
196042331391
196142331771
196238281363
196339301352

24. DanG Posted: November 04, 2005 at 02:00 PM (#1718698)

Wow, that formatting sucks. Looked perfect in the preview pane. Try this:

4.5% 9.5% 19.5% 29.5% 39.5%
1898 20 19 13 12 11
1899 21 17 15 14 9
1900 23 18 16 14 10
1901 21 17 15 13 11
1902 21 18 15 14 11
1903 21 18 15 13 11
1904 23 19 14 13 11
1905 24 19 14 12 11
1906 21 18 13 12 9
1907 23 19 15 11 10
1908 23 19 14 11 9
1909 26 21 15 12 9
1910 26 20 14 11 10
1911 26 20 15 11 8
1912 27 20 15 10 7
1913 28 23 17 11 6
1914 30 22 16 11 7
1915 27 21 17 12 6
1916 26 22 18 11 7
1917 27 22 18 11 7
1918 27 22 18 11 6
1919 28 20 18 10 9
1920 28 21 19 11 8
1921 28 25 18 11 7
1922 29 23 18 10 7
1923 30 23 13 10 7
1924 28 23 16 10 7
1925 30 26 17 11 9
1926 32 27 15 12 8
1927 33 27 16 11 8
1928 32 26 17 10 6
1929 31 25 18 11 6
1930 29 26 18 13 6
1931 32 28 18 13 6
1932 32 25 17 12 6
1933 34 23 17 9 3
1934 28 22 14 7 6
1935 32 22 15 7 6
1936 30 22 16 7 6
1937 33 25 17 7 4
1938 38 26 19 10 4
1939 38 28 18 11 4
1940 41 28 18 8 2
1941 36 28 15 5 3
1942 40 28 18 11 3
1943 33 24 15 6 4
1944 34 25 14 7 4
1945 35 29 15 9 4
1946 35 27 15 6 4
1947 35 25 15 6 5
1948 37 28 15 6 5
1949 38 29 14 5 4
1950 37 27 14 5 5
1951 38 28 15 7 4
1952 37 27 12 5 5
1953 38 23 12 6 5
1954 37 28 14 8 4
1955 39 28 14 7 4
1956 40 30 15 7 4
1957 39 29 13 7 4
1958 41 32 15 9 3
1959 40 28 12 5 2
1960 42 33 13 9 1
1961 42 33 17 7 1
1962 38 28 13 6 3
1963 39 30 13 5 2

25. Daryn Posted: November 08, 2005 at 08:16 PM (#1724011)

It looks like 1998 is going to be Dick Redding's year. But seriously, everyone down to him on the current ballot looks like they'll have a fighting chance. I, sadly, draw the cut off line at Welch because his support is not broad. He is not hanging around in the 16-30 spots on many people's ballots like most of the others are.

26. Daryn Posted: November 08, 2005 at 08:16 PM (#1724013)

That was supposed to be in the discussion thread.

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Monday, October 24, 2005

1963 Results: Campanella and Irvin Get the Hall of Merit Certificate of Approval!

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