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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Monday, November 13, 20061989 Results: Bench, Yaz, and Perry Sail into the Hall of Merit!In his first year of eligibility, legendary Cincinnati backstop Johnny Bench easily won induction with 98% of all possible points. Boston Red Sox star Carl Yastrzemski also was inducted without any difficulties with an outstanding 95% of all possible points. One other new candidate, pitching ace Gaylord Perry, also scored impressively with 86% of all possible points, despite two voters refusing to vote for him as they utilized the first-year protest rule. Standout hurler Fergie Jenkins placed fourth and appears an excellent bet to be elected in 1990. Rounding out the top-ten were: Ken Boyer, Jimmy Wynn, Nellie Fox, Dobie Moore, Ed Roush, and Pete Browning. RK LY Player PTS Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 n/e Johnny Bench 1298 55 44 7 3 1 2 n/e Carl Yastrzemski 1255 55 10 40 2 3 3 n/e Gaylord Perry 1138 52 1 6 43 1 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4 n/e Fergie Jenkins 881 54 1 2 32 11 1 3 1 1 1 1 5 3 Ken Boyer 324 31 1 1 1 5 1 3 1 2 5 5 5 1 6 4 Jimmy Wynn 293 27 1 1 1 3 3 1 3 4 2 2 4 2 7 5 Nellie Fox 290 25 2 1 2 4 2 4 3 1 3 3 8 6 Dobie Moore 271 21 1 1 4 3 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 9 8T Edd Roush 268 23 1 5 1 5 3 1 2 1 1 3 10 10 Pete Browning 258 22 1 1 5 3 1 1 1 4 2 2 1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11 7 Charley Jones 250 18 1 3 5 2 1 1 1 3 1 12 8T Jake Beckley 248 20 1 4 1 2 2 1 2 1 2 3 1 13 13 Cannonball Dick Redding 242 20 4 1 1 4 4 1 1 2 1 1 14 12 Quincy Trouppe 237 21 1 1 4 1 1 3 5 1 1 1 2 15 14 Charlie Keller 234 17 1 2 3 2 1 2 3 1 1 1 16 15 Bucky Walters 205 17 4 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 1 1 17 11 Hugh Duffy 199 18 1 1 2 1 5 3 2 3 18 16 Gavvy Cravath 176 17 1 1 1 3 2 2 2 2 3 19 17 Bob Johnson 162 15 2 3 1 1 1 2 1 4 20 22 Alejandro Oms 149 14 1 2 5 2 1 3 21 18 George Van Haltren 149 13 1 2 5 2 1 1 1 22 19 Orlando Cepeda 132 12 1 3 3 1 2 2 23 20 Tommy Leach 131 12 4 1 2 1 2 2 24 21 Roger Bresnahan 127 11 1 1 1 2 2 1 2 1 25 24 Burleigh Grimes 122 10 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 26 23 Norm Cash 116 11 1 2 1 1 1 1 3 1 27 25 Mickey Welch 110 9 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 28 30 Dizzy Dean 98 8 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 29 28 Lou Brock 95 10 1 1 1 1 1 1 4 30 27 Luis Tiant 93 10 1 1 1 4 3 31 31 Larry Doyle 90 7 2 1 1 2 1 32 26 Bobby Bonds 89 8 1 1 3 1 1 1 33 29 Tommy Bridges 82 8 2 4 2 34 43 Carl Mays 71 7 3 1 1 2 35 37 Wally Schang 66 6 1 1 1 1 1 1 36 38 Vic Willis 62 6 2 2 2 37 35 Ben Taylor 61 6 2 1 1 2 38T 34 Thurman Munson 58 6 1 2 1 1 1 38T 33 Reggie Smith 58 6 2 1 1 1 1 40 36 Elston Howard 55 6 1 1 3 1 41 40 Phil Rizzuto 55 5 1 1 2 1 42T 41 John McGraw 55 4 2 1 1 42T 44 Pie Traynor 55 4 1 1 1 1 44 42 Chuck Klein 51 5 1 1 1 2 45T 47 Addie Joss 45 4 1 1 1 1 45T 52 Al Rosen 45 4 1 1 2 47T 32 Bob Elliott 42 5 1 1 1 1 1 47T 50T Vern Stephens 42 5 1 3 1 49 58T Tony Oliva 40 3 2 1 50 48 Sal Bando 39 5 1 1 2 1 51T 45 Dave Bancroft 39 4 1 1 1 1 51T 49 Bill Monroe 39 4 1 2 1 53 54 Jimmy Ryan 38 4 1 1 1 1 54 55 Ed Williamson 32 3 1 1 1 55 39 Frank Howard 29 4 2 1 1 56 53 Sam Rice 29 3 1 1 1 57 n/e Gene Tenace 27 3 1 1 1 58T 58T Ed Cicotte 27 2 1 1 58T n/e Jim Kaat 27 2 1 1 60 46 Ernie Lombardi 26 2 1 1 61 50T Dizzy Trout 24 2 1 1 62T 56 Luis Aparicio 21 2 1 1 62T 62T Frank Chance 21 2 1 1 62T 61 Lefty Gomez 21 2 1 1 65 57 Bobby Veach 20 3 2 1 66 66 Don Newcombe 19 2 1 1 67 60 Rabbit Maranville 15 2 1 1 68 64 Jack Quinn 15 1 1 69 65 George J. Burns 14 2 2 70T 68T Wilbur Cooper 13 1 1 70T 70T Fielder Jones 13 1 1 70T 68T Sparky Lyle 13 1 1 70T 80T Bill Mazeroski 13 1 1 70T 70T Urban Shocker 13 1 1 75T 62T Dutch Leonard 12 1 1 75T 75T Cecil Travis 12 1 1 77T 72 Artie Wilson 11 1 1 77T 75T Sam Leever 11 1 1 77T 67 Tony Mullane 11 1 1 77T 75T Mickey Vernon 11 1 1 81 78T Fred Dunlap 10 1 1 82T 78T Hack Wilson 9 1 1 82T 80T Tony Lazzeri 9 1 1 82T 84T Virgil Trucks 9 1 1 85 82T Kiki Cuyler 8 1 1 86T 86T Herman Long 6 1 1 86T 82T Sol White 6 1 1 Dropped Out: Dick Bartell(93), Wally Berger(91T), Bus Clarkson(73T), Dom DiMaggio(86T), Jim Fregosi(73T), Hilton Smith(86T), George Kell(84T), Harvey Kuenn(86T), Heinie Manush(91T), Vada Pinson(86T). Ballots Cast: 55 John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy
Posted: November 13, 2006 at 09:23 PM | 36 comment(s)
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 14, 2006 at 01:15 AM (#2237060)BTW, it's nice having all of the inductees still alive and kickin'. :-)
HOF-not-HOM through 1989
1 Aparicio, Luis
2. Bancroft, Dave
3. Beckley, Jake
4 Bender, Chief
5 Bottomley, Jim
6 Bresnahan, Roger
7 Brock, Lou
8 Chance, Frank
9 Chesbro, Jack
10 Combs, Earle
11 Cuyler, Kiki
12 Dandridge, Ray
13 Dean, Dizzy
14 Duffy, Hugh
15 Evers, Johnny
16 Ferrell, Rick
17 Gomez, Lefty
18 Grimes, Burleigh
19 Hafey, Chick
20 Haines, Jesse
21 Hooper, Harry
22 Hoyt, Waite
23 Hunter, Catfish
24 Jackson, Travis
25 Johnson, Judy
26 Joss, Addie
27 Kell, George
28 Kelly, George
29 Klein, Chuck
30 Lindstrom, Freddie
31 Lombardi, Ernie
32 Manush, Heinie
33 Maranville, Rabbit
34 Marquard, Rube
35 McCarthy, Tommy
36 McGraw, John
37 Pennock, Herb
38 Rice, Sam
39 Roush, Edd
40 Schalk, Ray
41 Schoendienst, Red
42 Tinker, Joe
43 Traynor, Pie
44 Waner, Lloyd
45 Welch, Mickey
46 Wilson, Hack
47 Youngs, Ross
HOM-not-HOF
1 Allen, Dick
2 Ashburn, Richie
3 Barnes, Ross
4 Beckwith, John
5 Bennett, Charlie
6 Brown, Ray
7 Brown, Willard
8 Bunning, Jim
9 Caruthers, Bob
10 Childs, Cupid
11 Dahlen, Bill
12 Davis, George
13 Doby, Larry
14 Ferrell, Wes
15 Foster, Willie
16 Freehan, Bill
17 Glasscock, Jack
18 Gordon, Joe
19 Gore, George
20 Grant, Frank
21 Groh, Heinie
22 Hack, Stan
23 Hill, Pete
24 Hines, Paul
25 Jackson, Joe*
26 Johnson, Home Run
27 Mackey. Biz
28 Magee, Sherry
29 McPhee, Bid
30 McVey, Cal
31 Méndez, José
32 Minoso, Minnie
33 Newhouser, Hal
34 Pearce, Dickey
35 Perry, Gaylord
36 Pierce, Billy
37 Pike, Lip
38 Richardson, Hardy
39 Rogan, Bullet Joe
40 Santo, Ron
41 Santop, Louis
42 Sheckard, Jimmy
43 Start, Joe
44 Stearnes, Turkey
45 Stovey, Harry
46 Suttles, Mule
47 Sutton, Ezra
48 Torre, Joe
49 Torriente, Cristobal
50 Wells, Willie
51 White, Deacon
52 Williams, Smokey Joe
53 Wilson, Jud
* not eligible for the HOF
You have to admit that an absolute majority of 4th place votes is pretty cool - we don't get that with most elections.
Mark S: +16 (formerly jschmeagol)
Estaban Rivera: +15
Devin McCullen: +15
Jim Sp: +15
Ardo: +15
Sean Gilman: +15
...
jhwinfrey: +14 (returning from a long absence)
...
Juan V: +12 (median)
...
OCF: +11
...
John Murphy: +11
...
jimd: +7
KJOK: +6
Adam Schafer: +3
karlmagnus: +2
yest: -1
Robby Cano: -2
Rico Vanian: -4
fra paolo: -9
Man, because of my boycott I'm 3rd from the bottom. I feel like such a...a maverick, even!
all-time 'votes points' thru 1989 - those still eligible in 1990 election are in CAPS. electees not in caps.
Pending a check of the official tallies, looks like Beckley would come VERY close to taking over the No. 1 all-time slot after all these years.... Redding passes Mendez for 13th, and all-time Negro League pitching pts lead... Leach cuts Bresnahan's lead from 10 pts to 4, both pass Bennett for spots 18-19... Moore the 23rd player with 10,000 pts, we won't add too many more.. Roush hits the top 25 next year...
TOP 25, ALL-TIME
VAN HALTREN 23334.5
BECKLEY 23239
DUFFY 22611.5
BROWNING 19712.5
Childs 18484
Griffith 17924
Waddell 17596
Jennings 16976
WELCH 15917
Sisler 13892
Pike 13399
Sewell 12769
REDDING 12599
Mendez 12555
Thompson 12349
CJONES 12275
RYAN 11969.5
BRESNAHAN 11597
TLEACH 11591
Bennett 11503
Rixey 10789
Caruthers 10704
MOORE 10203
Beckwith 9896
H Stovey 9576
OTHERS IN THE TOP 25 ACTIVE
(Roush 9413, Doyle 7555, Cravath 7343, Grimes 6634, Monroe 6521, Walters 6378, Schang 5524, Williamson 5442, Trouppe 5436, McGraw 5162, Oms 4874, Fox 4843, BJohnson 4419, Boyer 4372)
not quite
(Keller 4054)
Can we just skip to '91?
Moore was 6th and Jones 7th- they're reversed on this list
Beckley and Roush were tied for 8th- Roush is correct but Beckley is listed as 11th
Duffy was 11th not 12th
Trouppe was 12th not 9th
Keller was 14th and Walters 15th-they're reversed on this list
Cepeda had been 19th not 20th
Leach had been 20th not 22nd
Oms had been 22nd not 19th
I don't know what the problem is, Chris, since I don't manually create those rankings. I fixed them, though. Thanks!
HOM-not-HOF
1 Allen, Dick
2 Ashburn, Richie
looks like he was inducted in 1995: http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/ashburi01.shtml
I was half-expecting Johnny Bench to enter the inner circle, but he fell short by a couple of percentage points. Nonetheless, a clear no-brainer if there ever was one. Yaz also managed to squeeze himself into the no-brain category, while Perry has to settle for a place among the easy choices. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Two voters boycotted Perry's candidacy, and assuming those voters would have otherwise slotted him third, he would have received 89.5 percent of the available points.
INNER CIRCLE, BABY!
100.0 - Cy Young (1917)
100.0 - Honus Wagner (1923)
100.0 - Walter Johnson (1933)
100.0 - Babe Ruth (1941)
100.0 - Lou Gehrig (1944)
100.0 - Lefty Grove (1947)
100.0 - Joe DiMaggio (1957)
100.0 - Ted Williams (1966)
100.0 - Stan Musial (1969)
100.0 - Mickey Mantle (1974)
100.0 - Willie Mays (1979)
100.0 - Hank Aaron (1982)
NO-BRAINERS (>95)
99.8 - Sam Crawford (1924)
99.7 - Dan Brouthers (1902)
99.5 - Jimmie Foxx (1951)
99.5 - Warren Spahn (1971)
99.4 - Pete Alexander (1936)
99.4 - Josh Gibson (1952)
99.3 - Ty Cobb (1934)
99.2 - Oscar Charleston (1943)
98.9 - Kid Nichols (1911)
98.8 - Nap Lajoie (1922)
98.7 - Bob Gibson (1981)
98.4 - Ed Delahanty (1909)
98.4 - Arky Vaughan (1954)
98.3 - Roy Campanella (1963)
98.3 - Johnny Bench (1988)
97.9 - Charlie Gehringer (1948)
97.9 - Bob Feller (1962)
97.8 - Eddie Collins (1935)
96.9 - Turkey Stearnes (1946)
96.6 - Satchel Paige (1959)
96.5 - Christy Mathewson (1922)
96.3 - Willie McCovey (1986)
95.8 - Rogers Hornsby (1941)
95.8 - Frank Robinson (1982)
95.7 - George Davis (1915)
95.7 - Carl Hubbell (1949)
95.4 - Eddie Mathews (1974)
95.3 - Paul Waner (1950)
95.3 - Mel Ott (1952)
95.1 - Carl Yastrzemski (1988)
EASY CHOICES (>85)
94.9 - Jesse Burkett (1912)
94.8 - Smokey Joe Williams (1936)
94.8 - Johnny Mize (1959)
94.7 - Robin Roberts (1972)
94.7 - Ernie Banks (1977)
94.6 - Duke Snider (1970)
94.5 - Yogi Berra (1969)
94.4 - Deacon White (1898)
94.0 - Paul Hines (1898)
94.0 - Jim O'Rourke (1899)
94.0 - Jackie Robinson (1962)
93.7 - Al Simmons (1946)
93.2 - Roger Connor (1903)
93.1 - Roberto Clemente (1978)
92.1 - Gabby Hartnett (1947)
92.0 - Louis Santop (1932)
91.9 - Pop Lloyd (1935)
91.9 - Al Kaline (1980)
91.7 - Luke Appling (1956)
91.5 - Bill Dickey (1953)
90.6 - Harry Heilmann (1937)
90.3 - Buck Leonard (1955)
90.0 - John Clarkson (1900)
89.1 - Billy Hamilton (1907)
89.1 - Hank Greenberg (1953)
88.9 - Bill Dahlen (1915)
88.3 - Mickey Cochrane (1943)
88.2 - Cristobal Torriente (1937)
87.7 - Ron Santo (1980)
87.7 - Harmon Killebrew (1981)
87.2 - Joe Cronin (1951)
86.7 - Frankie Frisch (1944)
86.2 - Gaylord Perry* (1988)
85.2 - Cap Anson* (1903)
85.2 - Fred Clarke (1917)
* Six voters boycotted Anson; two voters boycotted Perry.
SOLID HoMERS (>70)
84.3 - Willie Stargell (1988)
84.0 - King Kelly (1899)
83.5 - Ray Brown (1955)
82.9 - Martin Dihigo (1950)
82.6 - Frank Baker (1928)
82.4 - Jack Glasscock (1904)
82.2 - Eddie Plank (1924)
82.0 - Tris Speaker (1934)
81.5 - Goose Goslin (1945)
79.9 - Bullet Rogan (1940)
79.5 - George Gore (1898)
79.1 - Whitey Ford (1973)
78.6 - Hal Newhouser (1960)
78.4 - Willie Wells (1954)
78.2 - Tim Keefe (1901)
76.9 - Zack Wheat (1933)
76.6 - Jud Wilson (1948)
76.2 - George Wright (1901)
75.6 - Ezra Sutton (1908)
75.5 - Hoyt Wilhelm (1978)
74.7 - Buck Ewing (1902)
74.5 - Bid McPhee (1913)
74.4 - Ed Walsh (1920)
74.4 - Joe Jackson (1927)
73.9 - Pud Galvin (1910)
73.5 - John Ward (1900)
73.5 - Cal McVey (1914)
73.4 - Al Spalding (1906)
73.3 - Willie Keeler (1919)
72.5 - Joe Start (1912)
71.7 - Charley Radbourn (1905)
71.3 - Pee Wee Reese (1964)
70.7 - Jimmy Collins (1921)
SPLIT DECISIONS (>50)
69.8 - Amos Rusie (1904)
69.2 - Elmer Flick (1918)
68.9 - Dick Allen (1983)
68.4 - Ross Barnes (1898)
68.3 - Juan Marichal (1980)
68.1 - Joe Kelley (1919)
68.0 - Brooks Robinson (1984)
67.3 - Mule Suttles (1956)
67.1 - Hardy Richardson (1905)
67.1 - Grant Johnson (1925)
66.8 - Mordecai Brown (1925)
66.8 - Ted Lyons (1949)
65.8 - Billy Williams (1983)
65.0 - Bill Foster (1945)
64.9 - Heinie Groh (1938)
63.2 - Harry Stovey (1916)
62.4 - Stan Coveleski (1938)
62.1 - Larry Doby (1965)
61.6 - Jimmy Sheckard (1930)
61.3 - Frank Grant (1926)
61.3 - Monte Irvin (1963)
61.0 - Bobby Wallace (1929)
60.9 - Charlie Bennett (1921)
60.9 - Enos Slaughter (1965)
60.7 - Joe McGinnity (1928)
60.2 - Sherry Magee (1926)
60.0 - Pete Hill (1927)
59.9 - Billy Herman (1958)
59.9 - Joe Torre (1984)
58.0 - John Beckwith (1957)
56.6 - Bob Caruthers (1930)
56.5 - Dazzy Vance (1942)
54.9 - Don Drysdale (1975)
54.6 - Sam Thompson (1929)
54.3 - Sandy Koufax (1972)
53.0 - Dickey Pearce (1931)
VERY SPLIT DECISIONS (<50)
49.1 - Early Wynn (1970)
48.6 - Rube Foster (1932)
48.6 - Stan Hack (1958)
48.5 - Lou Boudreau (1958)
47.0 - José Méndez (1985)
46.3 - Red Faber (1939)
45.6 - Max Carey (1939)
44.9 - Bill Terry (1942)
44.7 - Joe Medwick (1967)
43.0 - Bill Freehan (1985)
41.8 - Joe Gordon (1976)
41.5 - Bob Lemon (1967)
41.3 - Wes Ferrell (1964)
40.5 - Lip Pike (1940)
40.4 - Earl Averill (1961)
39.4 - Ralph Kiner (1987)
39.1 - Billy Pierce (1987)
38.8 - Red Ruffing (1966)
38.7 - Eppa Rixey (1968)
38.2 - George Sisler (1979)
38.1 - Richie Ashburn (1968)
38.1 - Rube Waddell (1986)
37.9 - Willard Brown (1976)
37.7 - Hughie Jennings (1960)
37.7 - Jim Bunning (1977)
36.8 - Cool Papa Bell (1973)
35.5 - Cupid Childs (1988)
35.4 - Biz Mackey (1975)
34.8 - Joe Sewell (1985)
34.7 - Minnie Minoso (1987)
32.8 - Clark Griffith (1971)
32.8 - Bobby Doerr (1972)
HoMers in bold
all HoFers with significant playing careers are included
1936
Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Honus Wagner, Christy Mathewson, Walter Johnson
1937
Nap Lajoie, Tris Speaker, Cy Young , Connie Mack, John McGraw, George Wright
1938
Pete Alexander
1939
George Sisler , Eddie Collins , Willie Keeler , Lou Gehrig, Cap Anson , Charlie Comiskey , Candy Cummings , Buck Ewing , Charles Radbourn , Al Spalding
1942
Rogers Hornsby
1945
Roger Bresnahan , Dan Brouthers , Fred Clarke , Jimmy Collins , Ed Delahanty , Hugh Duffy , Hughie Jennings , King Kelly , Jim O’Rourke , Wilbert Robinson
1946
Jesse Burkett , Frank Chance , Jack Chesbro , Johnny Evers , , Clark Griffith, , Tommy McCarthy , Joe McGinnity , Eddie Plank , Joe Tinker , Rube Waddell , Ed Walsh
1947
Carl Hubbell , Frankie Frisch , Mickey Cochrane , Lefty Grove
1948
Herb Pennock , Pie Traynor
1949
Charlie Gehringer , Mordecai Brown , Kid Nichols
1951
Mel Ott , Jimmie Foxx
1952
Harry Heilmann , Paul Waner
1953
Al Simmons , Dizzy Dean , Chief Bender , Bobby Wallace , Harry Wright
1954
Rabbit Maranville , Bill Dickey , Bill Terry
1955
Joe DiMaggio , Ted Lyons , Dazzy Vance , Gabby Hartnett , Frank Baker , Ray Schalk
1956
Hank Greenberg , Joe Cronin
1957
Sam Crawford
1959
Zack Wheat
1961
Max Carey , Billy Hamilton
1962
Bob Feller , Jackie Robinson , Bill McKechnie , Edd Roush
1963
John Clarkson , Elmer Flick , Sam Rice , Eppa Rixey
1964
Luke Appling , Red Faber , Burleigh Grimes , Miller Huggins , Tim Keefe , Heinie Manush , Monte Ward
1965
Pud Galvin
1966
Ted Williams , Casey Stengel
1967
Red Ruffing , Lloyd Waner
1968
Joe Medwick , Kiki Cuyler , Goose Goslin
1969
Stan Musial, Roy Campanella , Stan Coveleski , , Waite Hoyt,
1970
Lou Boudreau , Earle Combs , Jesse Haines,
1971
Dave Bancroft , Jake Beckley , Chick Hafey , Harry Hooper , Joe Kelley , Rube Marquard , Satchel Paige
1972
Sandy Koufax , Yogi Berra ,Early Wynn, Lefty Gomez , Ross Youngs , Josh Gibson , Buck Leonard
1973
Warren Spahn , George Kelly , Mickey Welch , Monte Irvin , Roberto Clemente
1974
Mickey Mantle , Whitey Ford , Jim Bottomley , Sam Thompson , Cool Papa Bell
1975
Ralph Kiner , Earl Averill , Bucky Harris , Billy Herman , Judy Johnson
1976
Robin Roberts, Bob Lemon , Roger Connor , Freddy Lindstrom , Oscar Charleston
1977
Ernie Banks ,Amos Rusie , Joe Sewell , Al Lopez , Martin Dihigo , Pop Lloyd
1978
Eddie Mathews, Addie Joss
1979
Willie Mays , Hack Wilson
1980
Al Kaline, Duke Snider, Chuck Klein
1981
Bob Gibson, Johnny Mize , Rube Foster
1982
Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Travis Jackson
1983
Brooks Robinson, Juan Marichal, George Kell
1984
Luis Aparicio, Harmon Killebrew, Don Drysdale, Rick Ferrell , Pee Wee Reese
1985
Hoyt Wilhelm, Lou Brock, Enos Slaughter , Arky Vaughan
1986
Willie McCovey, Bobby Doerr, Ernie Lombardi
1987
Billy Williams, Catfish Hunter, Ray Dandridge
1988
Willie Stargell
1989
Johnny Bench, Carl Yastrzemski, Red Schoendienst
1991
Gaylord Perry, Ferguson Jenkins, Tony Lazzeri
1992
Hal Newhouser
1994
Leo Durocher , Phil Rizzuto
1995
Leon Day , Vic Willis , Richie Ashburn
1996
Jim Bunning, Bill Foster , Ned Hanlon
1997
Nellie Fox, Willie Wells
1998
George Davis , Larry Doby , Joe Rogan
1999
Orlando Cepeda, Joe Williams
2000
Bid McPhee , Turkey Stearnes
2001
Bill Mazeroski , Hilton Smith
2006
Ray Brown, Willard Brown, Andy Cooper, Biz Mackey, Mule Suttles, Cristobal Torriente, Jud Wilson, Frank Grant, Pete Hill, Jose Mendez Louis Santop, Ben Taylor, Sol White
In that company, Speaker still finished second, so what do you want? He got 1 1st place vote (Cobb got 52, Collins 2, Lloyd 1), 22 2nds, 17 3rds, 10 4ths and 6 5ths.
And Torriente was a member of that class, too.
Notice that Eddie Collins is high on the list at 97.8, which was the percentage of possible points he received when he was elected in 1935, after the electorate had passed on electing him in 1934, preferring Cobb and Speaker, who were also eligible for the first time in 1934. A review of the history of the elections shows that the electorate regarded Speaker very highly indeed: all that Speaker's vote percentage really tells us is that the electorate thought, generally, that Cobb was better than Speaker among the players who became eligible in 1934.
Like the Hall of Fame, the only official goal of the Hall of Merit and its electoral system is to determine which players should be elected. One may draw some conclusions about whom the electorate views as among the best and worst players in the Hall by studying the voting history, but the Hall of Merit has made no attempt to rank its members, and Lemon Curry's lists do not represent a finding of the Hall of Merit.
Our claim to be a Hall of Merit would indeed be doubtful if we had ranked Tris Speaker as only the 85th best player of all time, but we haven't.
Note that Lemon Curry is a non-voter and that he started posting his lists fairly recently. I don't think any of the voters would have posted such a list; we understand how it works and how meaningless the vote percentage really is.
One long-running list that is posted and maintained by a voter: Howie Menckel's all-time vote-getters list (#6 in this thread). What quality of player is on that list? That's the borderline, folks. Those are (more or less) the worst (or at least the most contoversial) players in the HoM and some of the best (subject to having become eligible long ago) players not in the HoM.
My own 1934 ballot: 1. Cobb, 2. Collins, 3. Speaker, 4. Williams, 5. Lloyd, 6. Torriente. Don't spin that as me having found fault with Speaker and Lloyd but rather that I found even more to like about Collins and Williams.
So in a 50-vote election taking three players, use 50*22 = 1100 as the denominator, not 50*24=1200. And just cap it at 1.00 . . . just an idea, but it would probably be a better way to account for 1934 type classes . . . it's your list, but that's just a suggestion.
And making such an assumption without first checking the facts is nothing to brag about, either.
Tons of other discrepancies can be pointed out. Note that 8 of the guys below Sisler on the list actually beat Sisler in the year they were inducted. Ditto the 5 guys below Childs. etc etc etc
As Chris said, the list is for fun trivial uses and there's a fun story behind many things that don't look quite right. There are no tiers to the HOM. Just in and out. The rigid election schedule has led to some players waiting shorter or longer than they would wait if our schedule was more flexible (elect five one year, none the next depending on quality of candidates).
Anyhow, I'm beating a dead horse now. :-)
Posting a caveat would have also made it even easier for me to refrain from posting nasty retorts to posters who are ignorant of our procedures. :-)
Same here, Marc. It may not indicate exactly how we feel about each HoMer, but it's still interesting and worthwhile data and is appreciated.
Well, this is Kevin we're dealing with here.
If you run the same list for the Hall of Fame, Speaker ranks 61st on that list:
HOFers elected by BBWAA, sorted by percentage of vote received when inducted.
-- MWE
If you run the same list for the Hall of Fame, Speaker ranks 61st on that list:
HOFers elected by BBWAA, sorted by percentage of vote received when inducted.
-- MWE
36 voters out of 201 didn't vote for Spoke at the HOF, while everyone voted for Speaker here. Yeah, that makes us look worse. ;-)
And Collins, Hornsby, Morgan and Cy Young are even lower than Speaker. Any group that thinks Cy Young is the 97th most worthy candidate...nevermind.
:-D
Howie,
Here are the differences I have.
Grimes 6636
McGraw 5152
Boyer 4371
Well, I'm getting more careful at least, off by 2, 10, and 1....
so REVISED
all-time 'votes points' thru 1989 - those still eligible in 1990 election are in CAPS. electees not in caps.
Pending a check of the official tallies, looks like Beckley would come VERY close to taking over the No. 1 all-time slot after all these years.... Redding passes Mendez for 13th, and all-time Negro League pitching pts lead... Leach cuts Bresnahan's lead from 10 pts to 4, both pass Bennett for spots 18-19... Moore the 23rd player with 10,000 pts, we won't add too many more.. Roush hits the top 25 next year...
TOP 25, ALL-TIME
VAN HALTREN 23334.5
BECKLEY 23239
DUFFY 22611.5
BROWNING 19712.5
Childs 18484
Griffith 17924
Waddell 17596
Jennings 16976
WELCH 15917
Sisler 13892
Pike 13399
Sewell 12769
REDDING 12599
Mendez 12555
Thompson 12349
CJONES 12275
RYAN 11969.5
BRESNAHAN 11597
TLEACH 11591
Bennett 11503
Rixey 10789
Caruthers 10704
MOORE 10203
Beckwith 9896
H Stovey 9576
OTHERS IN THE TOP 25 ACTIVE
(Roush 9413, Doyle 7555, Cravath 7343, Grimes 6636, Monroe 6521, Walters 6378, Schang 5524, Williamson 5442, Trouppe 5436, McGraw 5152, Oms 4874, Fox 4843, BJohnson 4419, Boyer 4371)
not quite
(Keller 4054)
VAN HALTREN 23334.5
BECKLEY 23239
DUFFY 22611.5
BROWNING 19712.5
Its looking like a three horse 'race'. Browning looks to be too far back at this point (at least for a 2007 snapshot).
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