BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: 2000 Results: Ryan Starts and Gets Relief From Gossage and Fingers For the Hall of Merit Squad!

Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Thursday, June 21, 2007

2000 Results: Ryan Starts and Gets Relief From Gossage and Fingers For the Hall of Merit Squad!

In his second year of eligibility, legendary flamethrower Nolan Ryan easily captured the first spot for Hall of Merit induction with his outstanding 96% of all possible points.

Star fireman and intimidating presence Rich Gossage earned an impressive 75% of all possible points in his first year on the ballot. The “Goose” is the second relief pitcher honored by the HoM.

Last but not least, famed Oakland, San Diego and Milwaukee relief ace Rollie Fingers tied Yankee great Willie Randolph with 295 points, but the former was victorious due to the tie-breaker rule (he had more second place votes) He becomes the third reliever ever honored by the HoM and second of the night, despite an underwhelmimg 26% of all possible points in his 10th year of eligibility.

Rounding out the top-ten were: Cannonball Dick Redding, Pete Browning, Dave Stieb, Charley Jones (back in the top-ten!), Roger Bresnahan (big jump for him, too!) and Tony Perez (impressive jump back into the top-ten!).

RK   LY  Player                   PTS  Bal   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 1    4  Nolan Ryan              1086   47  39  4           2  2                        
 2  n/e  Rich Gossage             843   41   5 22  2  2  4  1  3           1     1      
3T    6  Rollie Fingers           295   23      2  3  2           2  2  1  4  1     3  3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3T    5  Willie Randolph          295   23      1  1  2  3  2  2  2     2  1  1  2  3  1
 5    7  Cannonball Dick Redding  289   20      2  4  1  1  1  2  1  1  1     2     1  3
 6    9  Pete Browning            286   18      2  3  2  2  1  2  3  1           1     1
 7   10  Dave Stieb               267   21      1     4  3  1     1  4  1     1  1     4
 8   11  Charley Jones            264   18   2     1  2  2  2  3        3  1        1  1
 9   14  Roger Bresnahan          255   20         1  2  1  3  1  4  2  1     1  1  2  1
10   15  Tony Perez               238   17      3  1  1  1  2  1     2  1     1     2  2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11    8  Bucky Walters            225   16         2  1  1  3  2  2     3        2      
12   12  Hugh Duffy               222   17      1     3  2  1  1  1  2     2  1  1  1  1
13   13  Bob Johnson              211   16         1  1  2  2  2  1     3  2  1     1   
14   16  Gavvy Cravath            197   17      1  1     1        2  2  3  2     1  1  3
15   17  Alejandro Oms            185   15   1        1  2     1  1  1     4  2  1  1   
16   19  George Van Haltren       181   12      1  1  2  2  1     1  2        2         
17   18  Tommy Leach              163   12            1  3  1  2     2  2     1         
18   21  Graig Nettles            152   14         1        1     1  1  3  2  2     1  2
19   30  Ken Singleton            139   13         2        1              1     8     1
20   29  Phil Rizzuto             135   11            1  2  1  1  1     1  1  1  1     1
21   33  Reggie Smith             131   12                  2  2  1        2  2  1  2   
22   40  John McGraw              130    8      1  2  1     1  1           1        1   
23   25  Lou Brock                128    9         1  1  2        2     1  2            
24   24  Rusty Staub              127   10         1  1        3     1  1     1  1     1
25   28  Larry Doyle              126    9         2  2        1  1           1        2
26   31  Luis Tiant               123   11         1     2     1     2              1  4
27T  32  Norm Cash                123   10            1  1     2  2  1     1     1     1
27T  20  Mickey Welch             123   10            2  1     1  1     1  2  1        1
29   37  Dizzy Dean               119    8      2  1     1              1  1        2   
30   27  Tommy Bridges            113    7         1  2     3        1                  
31   26  Vic Willis               112    9         2     1           1        2  1  2   
32   22  Bus Clarkson             111    7         2  2           1     1     1         
33   23  Burleigh Grimes          104    8         1     1  2     1        1        1  1
34   38T Dale Murphy              103   10                  2        2  1     2     2  1
35   38T Bobby Bonds               98    9                  2     2     1     1  1  2   
36T  41  Orlando Cepeda            89    8                  1  1  1  2        1     2   
36T  34  Elston Howard             89    8            1        2  1     1        1     2
38   49  Dave Concepción           84    6         1           2  1     1  1            
39   36  Bob Elliott               78    8                        2     1  1  1  2     1
40   42  Vern Stephens             77    7               1        1  1     1  2  1      
41   35  Tommy John                77    6         1        1     1        2        1   
42   51  Carl Mays                 73    7               1  1  1                 1  2  1
43   43  Ben Taylor                70    6         1           1              2  2      
44   44  Frank Tanana              64    4         1  2                          1      
45T  45  Addie Joss                63    4      1        1        1     1               
45T  50  Ed Williamson             63    4         2                       1  1         
47   46  Dave Bancroft             60    5            1           1  1     1     1      
48   56  Chuck Klein               59    4         2                             1  1   
49   48  Wally Schang              57    4      1           1           1        1      
50   53T Sal Bando                 56    5                  1        1  1     2         
51   58T Bill Monroe               54    5            1        1                 2  1   
52   47  Pie Traynor               50    4      1              1                    1  1
53   62  Sam Rice                  42    4                  1              2        1   
54   63  Buddy Bell                40    4                           1  1  1        1   
55   73T Jim Rice                  38    4                  1                 1     2   
56   65T Ernie Lombardi            35    3            1              1                 1
57   55  Wilbur Cooper             34    2      1                       1               
58   85T Lefty Gomez               33    3                  1        1                 1
59T  69  Jim Kaat                  32    3                        2                    1
59T  52  Don Newcombe              32    3                           1  1     1         
61   64  Frank Howard              31    3                           1  1        1      
62   79T Ed Cicotte                31    2         1                          1         
63   60T Rabbit Maranville         28    3                           1        1     1   
64T  68  George J. Burns           26    3                                 1     2      
64T  57  Rick Reuschel             26    3                              1        1  1   
66   70T Jimmy Ryan                25    2                        1  1                  
67   60T Jack Clark                23    2                  1                    1      
68T n/e  Johnny Pesky              21    2                           1        1         
68T  77  Bruce Sutter              21    2                              1  1            
70T  58T Frank Chance              20    2                              1     1         
70T  76  Dizzy Trout               20    2                     1                       1
72   88  Hack Wilson               19    2                        1                    1
73   73T Tony Mullane              18    2                           1                 1
74   83T Dave Parker               17    2                                    1  1      
75   79T Tony Oliva                17    1            1                                 
76   83T Ron Cey                   16    2                                    1     1   
77T  65T Luis Aparicio             16    1               1                              
77T  85T Brian Downing             16    1               1                              
77T  82  Carlos Morán              16    1               1                              
80   93T Bobby Veach               14    2                                       1     1
81   75  Thurman Munson            14    1                     1                        
82T  87  Sam Leever                12    1                           1                  
82T  70T Leroy Matlock             12    1                           1                  
82T  53T Urban Shocker             12    1                           1                  
85T  89T Fielder Jones             11    1                              1               
85T  89T Tony Lazzeri              11    1                              1               
87T  65T Fred Dunlap               10    1                                 1            
87T  91T George Kell               10    1                                 1            
87T n/e  Jack Morris               10    1                                 1            
87T  70T Al Rosen                  10    1                                 1            
91T  93T Bill Madlock               9    1                                    1         
91T  93T Mickey Vernon              9    1                                    1         
93T n/e  Charlie Hough              8    1                                       1      
93T n/e  Al Oliver                  8    1                                       1      
95T  91T Dutch Leonard              7    1                                          1   
95T n/e  Gene Tenace                7    1                                          1   
Dropped Out: Luke Easter(78), Jim Fregosi(93T), Jack Quinn(79T).
Ballots Cast: 47

Thanks to OCF and Ron Wargo for their help making sure that the tally is correct.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: June 21, 2007 at 10:45 PM | 41 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: June 21, 2007 at 11:31 PM (#2412552)

Congrats to Nolan, Rich and Rollie!

HOF-not-HOM through 2000
 
Meaning, all of the members of the HOF-not-HOM as of 2000, not 2007.
 
1  Aparicio, Luis
2. Bancroft, Dave
3  Bender, Chief
4  Bottomley, Jim
5  Bresnahan, Roger
6  Brock, Lou
7  Cepeda, Orlando
8  Chance, Frank
9  Chesbro, Jack
10  Combs, Earle
11 Cuyler, Kiki
12 Dandridge, Ray
13 Day, Leon
14 Dean, Dizzy
15 Duffy, Hugh
16 Evers, Johnny
17 Ferrell, Rick
18 Gomez, Lefty
19 Grimes, Burleigh
20 Hafey, Chick
21 Haines, Jesse
22 Hooper, Harry
23 Hoyt, Waite
24 Hunter, Catfish
25 Jackson, Travis
26 Johnson, Judy
27 Joss, Addie
28 Kell, George
29 Kelly, George
30 Klein, Chuck
31 Lazzeri, Tony
32 Lindstrom, Freddie
33 Lombardi, Ernie
34 Manush, Heinie
35 Maranville, Rabbit
36 Marquard, Rube
37 McCarthy, Tommy
38 McGraw, John 
39 Pennock, Herb
40 Perez, Tony
41 Rice, Sam
42 Rizzuto, Phil
43 Schalk, Ray
44 Schoendienst, Red
45 Tinker, Joe
46 Traynor, Pie
47 Waner, Lloyd
48 Welch, Mickey
49 Willis, Vic
50 Wilson, Hack
51 Youngs, Ross
 
HOM-not-HOF
 
Meaning, all of the members of the HOM-not-HOF as of 2000, not 2007.
 
1  Allen, Dick 
2  Barnes, Ross
3  Beckwith, John
4  Bennett, Charlie
5  Blyleven, Bert
6  Boyer, Ken
7  Brown, Ray
8  Brown, Willard
9  Carter, Gary
10 Caruthers, Bob
11 Childs, Cupid
12 Dahlen, Bill
13 Evans, Darrell
14 Evans, Dwight
15 Ferrell, Wes
16 Freehan, Bill
17 Glasscock, Jack
18 Gordon, Joe
19 Gore, George
20 Gossage, Rich
21 Grant, Frank
22 Grich, Bobby
23 Groh, Heinie
24 Hack, Stan
25 Hernandez, Keith
26 Hill, Pete
27 Hines, Paul
28 Jackson, Joe*
29 Johnson, Home Run
30 Keller, Charlie
31 Mackey. Biz
32 Magee, Sherry
33 McVey, Cal
34 Méndez, José
35 Minoso, Minnie
36 Moore, Dobie
37 Pearce, Dickey
38 Pierce, Billy
39 Pike, Lip
40 Richardson, Hardy
41 Rose, Pete*
42 Santo, Ron
43 Santop, Louis
44 Sheckard, Jimmy
45 Simmons, Ted
46 Start, Joe
47 Stovey, Harry
48 Suttles, Mule
49 Sutton, Ezra
50 Torre, Joe
51 Trouppe, Quincy
52 Torriente, Cristobal
53 White, Deacon
54 Wilson, Jud
55 Wynn, Jimmy
 
*  not eligible for the HOF 

Guys, as long as I'm in charge of handling the elections, here is the new rule: All ballots will not be counted after 7:59 PM EDT, either in runaway or extremely tight races. I will e-mail everyone early that day if it looks like it will be a close one as a reminder, but whether or not I receive a response from you, I'm shutting it down at 8. No ifs, ands or buts. I don't want to see what happened on Monday.

It would also be nice if we could end the last minute ballot posts, too. We have an extra week, yet we have more of these posts on Monday than we ever did.

This is not a knock on Joe, BTW. The rule was too flexible and was bound to explode in our faces. Fortunately, Joe was big enough to rescind his ballot and I thank him for that.

Let's remember that without Joe's vision, our lives would be the lesser. I personally don't consider that an overstatement.

2. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: June 21, 2007 at 11:40 PM (#2412556)

Let's remember that without Joe's vision, our lives would be the lesser. I personally don't consider that an overstatement.

Indisputably.

3. karlmagnus Posted: June 21, 2007 at 11:42 PM (#2412559)

Nor do I consider it an overstatement. Furthermore, while I am a rank amateur I think there are some very highly qualified baseball scholars in this group, and I wouldn't be at all surpised if HOM membership wasn't still being cited as a qualification on websites in 2030 or even 2050. It's not been a perfect process, but damn close.

4. mulder & scully Posted: June 22, 2007 at 12:02 AM (#2412566)

Wow, I was looking the numbers and I did some figuring. If Joe's ballot had counted and I had posted my usual ballot, spots 3-7 would like this, (if my math is right):

Randolph - 311
Fingers - 310
Browning - 303
Redding - 289
Jones - 288

and Bucky Walters would have pushed Tony Perez out of 10th spot, 247 to 238.

So vote and vote early!! Who do we want from that group of four along with presumably Whitaker and Winfield? Or is it which two do we want among the group of four (the punk group, not the Chinese one) plus three (Mattingly, Puckett, and Whitaker) to join Winfield?

5. Chris Cobb Posted: June 22, 2007 at 12:58 AM (#2412604)

Good to see these results finally!

This is our first tie for an election spot in 103 elections, isn't it?

Who do we want from that group of four along with presumably Whitaker and Winfield? Or is it which two do we want among the group of four (the punk group, not the Chinese one) plus three (Mattingly, Puckett, and Whitaker) to join Winfield?

Lance Parrish should be in the mix as well.

6. jimd Posted: June 22, 2007 at 01:41 AM (#2412619)

List of elections decided by 24 points or less (one ballot):

1901 Wright-Glasscock (21)
1906 Spalding-Sutton (8.5)
1913 McPhee-McVey (4)
1916 Stovey-Kelley, Flick (2,16)
1929 Thompson-Sheckard (13)
1934 Speaker-Collins (14)
1940 Pike-Sewell (13)
1960 Jennings-Medwick (13)
1961 Averill-Ruffing, Medwick (13,21)
1966 Ruffing-Medwick (24)
1968 Ashburn-Mackey (24)
1972 Doerr-Mackey (11)
1975 Mackey-Brown, Sisler, Gordon, Mendez (1,7,12,12)
1976 Brown-Sisler (3)
1985 Sewell-Pierce, Waddell (18,20)
1986 Waddell-Kiner (16)
1987 Minoso-Childs (5)
1991 Moore-Fox,Wynn (2,21)
1992 Grich-Rose (3)
1996 Wynn-Roush (20)
1997 Roush-Beckley (13)
1998 Beckley-Redding, Randolph (8,19)
2000 Fingers-Randolph, Redding, Browning (0,6,9)

2000 is closest for 2 candidates, 3 candidates, and 4 candidates within one ballot of an election slot.
1975 is our other candidate for the closest election, with 5 such candidates.

7. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: June 22, 2007 at 01:57 AM (#2412627)

Thanks for the list, Jim!

8. jimd Posted: June 22, 2007 at 02:05 AM (#2412632)

They are getting more common. 23 of 103 overall.
9 of the last 16. 4 of the last 5.

9. Paul Wendt Posted: June 22, 2007 at 03:05 AM (#2412662)

Considering the 4th-5th place votes, Dave Stieb is in position to gain the most bonus points, Redding in position to gain least. Stieb and Redding are in position to get knocked off a few ballots if anyone votes for four new candidates.

Considering the fielding positions played by leading new candidates, Willie Randolph is most likely to lose a few points in the new considerations.

--
HOM-not-HOF

Meaning, all of the members of the <u>HOF-not-HOM</u> as of 2000, not 2007.

1 Allen, Dick

If there is a template for this report, the underlined should be revised to HOM-not-HOF

10. Dag Nabbit: Sockless Psychopath Posted: June 22, 2007 at 03:12 AM (#2412667)

Would it be appropriate to invoke the Armen Tamzarian rule and decry that no one ever speak of the recent unplesentness again?

11. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: June 22, 2007 at 03:14 AM (#2412668)

Dag,

In the interest of Mrs. Dr. Chaleeko being of Armenian extraction, can you explain the Armen Tamzarian rule? I assume it must concern the "alledged" genocide.

Thanks!

12. Dag Nabbit: Sockless Psychopath Posted: June 22, 2007 at 03:17 AM (#2412671)

Eric,

It's an episode of the Simpsons. It turns out Seymour Skinner isn't really Seymour Skinner, but a former hoodlum named Armen Tamzarian. They drive the real Seymour Skinner (who'd been held in a Vietnamese sweatshop as a POW all these years) out of town tied to the back of a railroad car because they like the old one better. Then they have the town judge come out and say no one's allowed to say the name Armen Tamzarian again under penalty of death.

13. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: June 22, 2007 at 03:21 AM (#2412674)

Nabs,

Exactly as I said, it's all about Turks slaughtering Armenians. Thanks for the confirmation.

You know I remember when Yankee fans wished that anyone else was the real Joel Skinner....

14. Dag Nabbit: Sockless Psychopath Posted: June 22, 2007 at 03:31 AM (#2412679)

No doubt about it, you were close.

15. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2007 at 04:28 AM (#2412696)

t's an episode of the Simpsons. It turns out Seymour Skinner isn't really Seymour Skinner, but a former hoodlum named Armen Tamzarian. They drive the real Seymour Skinner (who'd been held in a Vietnamese sweatshop as a POW all these years) out of town tied to the back of a railroad car because they like the old one better. Then they have the town judge come out and say no one's allowed to say the name Armen Tamzarian again under penalty of death.

Worst. Episode. Ever.

16. Lassus Posted: June 22, 2007 at 04:33 AM (#2412699)

As a lurker I'm really sorry that my favorite player from my pee-wee and little league days was THAT CLOSE and somehow got knocked out in a tie? Ouch. Poor Willie.

I would never have made that double-play when I was 7 if not for him. I saw him (I think, it was 30 years ago) get a grounder and tag the guy running from first to second, and then throw out the guy at first. I remember thinking one day as I was waiting for the guy that IF I got a grounder, I could try the same thing. And he did, and I did, and it worked. My dad couldn't stop talking about that play (mine) for about 5 years, like any good dad would.

Anyhow, I look forward to these elections. Thanks, guys.

17. thok Posted: June 22, 2007 at 07:12 AM (#2412736)

It's an episode of the Simpsons. It turns out Seymour Skinner isn't really Seymour Skinner, but a former hoodlum named Armen Tamzarian. They drive the real Seymour Skinner (who'd been held in a Vietnamese sweatshop as a POW all these years) out of town tied to the back of a railroad car because they like the old one better. Then they have the town judge come out and say no one's allowed to say the name Armen Tamzarian again under penalty of death.

Torture. It's penalty of torture.

18. Rick A. Posted: June 22, 2007 at 11:02 AM (#2412773)

To Howie, DavidFoss and anyone else doing all-time voter tallies.

Please note that the original Bob Johnson and Tommy John totals were wrong. It is correct in these results.

Just want to make sure that the all-time vote totals are correct.

Thanks

19. Rusty Priske Posted: June 22, 2007 at 12:31 PM (#2412794)

I suppose the wrong decision is better than no decision.

Oh well.

20. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: June 22, 2007 at 02:13 PM (#2412853)

If there is a template for this report, the underlined should be revised to HOM-not-HOF

Thanks, Paul!

21. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: June 22, 2007 at 02:27 PM (#2412871)

willie got jobbed!

i'm not a participant, but i love the HOM. thank you all so much for enriching my knowledge and joy of baseball.

22. DL from MN Posted: June 22, 2007 at 03:15 PM (#2412928)

Things are looking up for Lee Smith as a result of this election. Lee Smith is Fingers without the mustache.

23. Dag Nabbit: Sockless Psychopath Posted: June 22, 2007 at 03:20 PM (#2412935)

Lee Smith is Fingers without the mustache.

Or the postseason achievements.

24. Chris Cobb Posted: June 22, 2007 at 04:09 PM (#2412956)

Smith is the next-best pure relief pitcher after Gossage and Fingers, not counting active pitchers or Eckersley's hybrid career. The in-out line probably runs between Smith and Fingers, however.

25. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: June 22, 2007 at 05:00 PM (#2412990)

Or the postseason achievements.

...or the quality of teammates.

26. Is Zonk Vermin within the Confines? Posted: June 30, 2007 at 04:27 AM (#2423653)

Smith is the next-best pure relief pitcher after Gossage and Fingers, not counting active pitchers or Eckersley's hybrid career. The in-out line probably runs between Smith and Fingers, however.

You'd have a hard time getting many Cubs fans to buy that - myself included. I often wondered why we 'under-appreciate' Lee Smith so much. I'm not sure if it's more the Garvey home run, never really getting over Sutter (that was some pen the Cubs had somewhere around the late 70s/early 80s -- Sutter, Smith, Willie Hernandez, Dave Campbell), or the tripe they got in trade for him -- but there's just a strong dislike for and palpable feel that he's over-rated.

27. Paul Wendt Posted: June 30, 2007 at 01:46 PM (#2423736)

He was not much appreciated in Boston, as far as I could tell, then Reardon was much appreciated.
In part it was those bases on balls. Fans hate it when the closer walks a batter or two.
ERA+ 148, WHIP 1.30
That must be unusual.

During Smith's two years in Boston, he walked 70 in 154 innings while Reardon in Minnesota walked 27 in 146 innings. Joe Morgan was and still is a popular local man. Maybe the Sox made the trade for sake of his health, and our pleasure who have enjoyed him in retirement on the banquet circuit.

28. Howie Menckel Posted: June 30, 2007 at 02:22 PM (#2423754)

all-time 'votes points' thru 2000 - those still eligible in 2001 election are in CAPS. electees are not in caps.

TOP 50, ALL-TIME
Beckley.... 25856
VAN HALTREN 25257.5
DUFFY...... 25069.5
BROWNING... 22891.5
Childs..... 18484
Griffith... 17924
Waddell.... 17596
WELCH...... 17218
Jennings... 16976
REDDING.... 15543

CJONES..... 15032
Sisler..... 13892
BRESNAHAN.. 13765
Pike....... 13399
TLEACH..... 13396
Sewell..... 12769
Mendez..... 12555
RYAN....... 12368.5
Thompson... 12349
Roush...... 12005

Bennett.... 11503
Moore...... 10904
Rixey...... 10789
Caruthers.. 10704
Beckwith.... 9896
CRAVATH......9668
HStovey......9576
WALTERS......9104
Mackey.......8930
DOYLE........8783

Start........8378.5
McGinnity....8232
GRIMES.......8175
DPearce......8073
McVey........7985.5
FGrant.......7969.5
Kiner........7746
Suttles......7690
NFox.........7587
Trouppe......7494

WFerrell.....7259
BMONROE......7085
BJOHNSON.....7018
CBell........6968
OMS..........6909
Galvin.......6585
Keller.......6424
Sheckard.....6377
MCGRAW.......6288
Minoso.......6131

Others in active top 50
Schang 6104, Williamson 5970, Willis 4730, Dean 4295, Joss 4257, Elliott 4110, BTaylor 3584, Bridges 3408, FChance 3361, McCormick 3148x, SRice 2978, CMays 2956, Traynor 2919, Cicotte 2868, Tiernan 2686x, NCash 2610, Cepeda 2577, FJones 2523, Rizzuto 2445, Veach 2199, TPerez 2077, GJBurns 2043, Klein 2011, Mullane 1979, Brock 1954, Stephens 1890, Dunlap 1883, Poles 1842x, Hooper 1792x, Lombardi 1783, EHoward 1774, MGriffin 1726.5x, Tiant 1544

29. andrew siegel Posted: June 30, 2007 at 02:51 PM (#2423774)

Wow--If current voting patterns hold up, we should have pretty much a flat-footed 3-way tie between Beckley, GVH, and Duffy in 4 years.

30. Howie Menckel Posted: June 30, 2007 at 03:14 PM (#2423780)

And Browning will say, "I didn't lose, I just ran out of time."

31. Paul Wendt Posted: June 30, 2007 at 05:52 PM (#2423863)

If Browning isn't in the Hall of Merit.
Redding, Browning, Jones, and Bresnahan who rank 5-3-6-7 on the active list are all viable for election. Well, seven years is a long time; it's five months. Others are viable too.
Now who is rather high up on that list despite going in rather quickly? Beckwith? Mackey?

32. jingoist Posted: June 30, 2007 at 09:34 PM (#2424163)

About 80 years ago I began to fret that none of that wonderful troika of OF's from the 1889 Chicago White Stockings team would ever be elected to the HoM.
As the years pass I have come to accept the verdict of the informed electorate.

Still, I hold out hope that either Duffy or GVH (Jimmy Ryan's never gonna make it) will somehow slip in via a third place slot.
I think it is quite impressive that each of those guys averaged more than 1 run scored per game played that year.
Must have been a great team to watch, what with Anson managing and playing a strong 1B.

33. Paul Wendt Posted: June 30, 2007 at 11:41 PM (#2424453)

They missed Clarkson.

34. Qufini Posted: July 02, 2007 at 07:18 PM (#2426484)

bringing back an earlier list:

<u>Championship, Pennant and Division Winners without a Hall of Merit Player 1871-1990 (best candidate):</u>

1871 NA: Philadelphia Athletics (Levi Meyerle)
1884 UA: St. Louis Maroons (Fred Dunlap)
1888 AA: St. Louis Browns (Tip O'Neill)
1890 AA: Louisville Colonels
1914 NL: Boston Braves (Rabbit Maranville)
1917 NL: New York Giants (George Burns)
1918 NL: Chicago Cubs (Hippo Vaughn)
1926 ECL: Atlantic City Bacharach Giants (Dick Lundy)
1927 ECL: Atlantic City Bacharach Giants (Dick Lundy)
1932 EWL: Baltimore Black Sox (Dick Lundy)
1938 NAL: Memphis Red Sox (Larry Brown)
1939 NL: Cincinnati Reds (Bucky Walters)
1940 NL: Cincinnati Reds (Bucky Walters)
1944 AL: St. Louis Browns (Vern Stephens)
1944 NAL: Birmingham Black Barons (Artie Wilson)
1948 NAL: Birmingham Black Barons (Artie Wilson)
1949 NAL: Birmingham Black Barons (Artie Wilson)
1950 NAL: Indianapolis Clowns (Leon Day)
1976 AL: New York Yankees (Willie Randolph)
1981 AL: Oakland Athletics (Rickey Henderson)*
1981 NL: Los Angeles Dodgers (Ron Cey)
1983 NL: Los Angeles Dodgers (Fernando Valenzuela)
1984 NL: Chicago Cubs (Dennis Eckersley)*
1985 AL: Toronto Blue Jays (Dave Stieb)
1985 NL: Los Angeles Dodgers (Orel Hershiser)*
1985 NL: St. Louis Cardinals (Ozzie Smith)*
1987 NL: St. Louis Cardinals (Ozzie Smith)*
1987 AL: Toronto Blue Jays (Dave Stieb)
1987 NL: San Francisco Giants (Will Clark)*
1988 AL: Oakland Athletics (Dennis Eckersley)*
1989 AL: Oakland Athletics (Dennis Eckersley)*
1989 NL: Chicago Cubs (Ryne Sandberg)*
1990 AL: Oakland Athletics (Dennis Eckersley)*
1990 NL: Cincinnati Reds (Barry Larkin)*
1990 NL: Pittsburgh Pirates (Barry Bonds)*
*indicates best candidate not yet eligible; in cases of more than one likely candidate, the candidate who is eligible first is listed

taken off the list due to the 2000 election:
1984 NL: San Diego Padres (Rich Gossage)
1986 NL: Houston Astros (Nolan Ryan)
1989 NL: San Francisco Giants (Rich Gossage)

recently taken off the list:
1945 NAL: Cleveland Buckeyes (Quincy Trouppe)
1947 NAL: Cleveland Buckeyes (Quincy Trouppe)
1976 AL: Kansas City Royals (George Brett)
1977 AL: Kansas City Royals (George Brett)
1978 AL: Kansas City Royals (George Brett)
1980 AL: Kansas City Royals (George Brett)
1981 AL: Kansas City Royals (George Brett)
1981 AL: Milwaukee Brewers (Robin Yount)
1981 NL: Montreal Expos (Gary Carter)
1982 NL: St. Louis Cardinals (Keith Hernandez)
1983 AL: Chicago White Sox (Carlton Fisk)
1984 AL: Detroit Tigers (Darrell Evans)
1984 AL: Kansas City Royals (George Brett)
1985 AL: Kansas City Royals (George Brett)
1986 AL: Boston Red Sox (Dwight Evans)
1986 NL: New York Mets (Keith Hernandez)
1987 AL: Detroit Tigers (Darrell Evans)
1987 AL: Minnesota Twins (Bert Blyleven)
1988 AL: Boston Red Sox (Dwight Evans)
1988 NL: New York Mets (Keith Hernandez)
1990 AL: Boston Red Sox (Dwight Evans)

35. ronw Posted: July 06, 2007 at 02:03 PM (#2430847)

Chris Fluit:

Unless your list requires a HOMer to be a full-time player, I think the following teams had a HOMer on their roster at some point during their championship season:

1918 NL: Chicago Cubs - Pete Alexander
1939 NL: Cincinnati Reds - Al Simmons

36. DavidFoss Posted: July 06, 2007 at 02:26 PM (#2430875)

That's pretty good coverage. I was expecting more teams like the Miracle Braves or even the 1981 Dodgers. Those Dodgers were certainly considered "star-laden" at the time, just none of them rose their careers above the HOVG level.

37. ronw Posted: July 06, 2007 at 03:52 PM (#2430996)

Also, I noticed a couple of additional omissions:

1948 NAL: Birmingham Black Barons - Willie Mays
1949 NAL: Birmingham Black Barons - Willie Mays

38. Paul Wendt Posted: July 06, 2007 at 04:19 PM (#2431033)

Maybe the pennant and all-star lists have been based on World Series and All-Star games played.

39. Paul Wendt Posted: July 06, 2007 at 04:21 PM (#2431038)

Beside leading the backlog in "points" Randolph is in relatively strong position with several #4-5 votes and few #15 votes. Dick Redding vice versa.

40. Rick A. Posted: July 10, 2007 at 02:01 AM (#2435265)

Joss 4257

Actually, I have Joss with 4247. Not sure where the difference is from.

41. Howie Menckel Posted: July 10, 2007 at 02:24 AM (#2435298)

Undoubtedly my error, Rick A.
Thanks!

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