BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: 2013 BBTF Hall of Fame Ballot

Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Tuesday, December 11, 2012

2013 BBTF Hall of Fame Ballot

IMPORTANT: Please read:

This election should follow BBWAA rules, not Hall of Merit rules. However, we hope to see only players that each voter feels belong on their ballots - if you don’t feel he really is a HOFer, then please refrain from posting that player’s name (examples of whom I am referring to are Mookie Wilson, Scott Brosius, Buddy Biancalana - players who were well liked or were underdogs, but have no creditable HOF resume). Leaving 1st-year candidates off your ballot is also frowned upon. IOW, we would like to see an absence of some of the silliness that permeates Hall of Fame voting by the writers.

The election will end next Thursday on Dec 20th (5 PM EST). Results will be posted a short time later.

Please don’t post any vote tallies on this thread.

Here are some of the rules by the BBWAA that pertain to our electorate:

3. Eligible Candidates — Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:

A. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.
B. Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3 (A).
C. Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.
D. In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.
E. Any player on Baseball’s ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.

4. Method of Election

A. BBWAA Screening Committee — A Screening Committee consisting of baseball writers will be appointed by the BBWAA. This Screening Committee shall consist of six members, with two members to be elected at each Annual Meeting for a three-year term. The duty of the Screening Committee shall be to prepare a ballot listing in alphabetical order eligible candidates who (1) received a vote on a minimum of five percent (5%) of the ballots cast in the preceding election or (2) are eligible for the first time and are nominated by any two of the six members of the BBWAA Screening Committee.
B. Electors may vote for as few as zero (0) and as many as ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted.
C. Any candidate receiving votes on seventy-five percent (75%) of the ballots cast shall be elected to membership in the National Baseball Hall of Fame.

5. Voting — Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

The eligible candidates are: Sandy Alomar Jr*, Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio*, Barry Bonds*, Jeff Cirillo*, Royce Clayton*, Roger Clemens*, Jeff Conine*, Steve Finley*, Julio Franco*, Shawn Green*, Roberto Hernandez*, Ryan Klesko*, Kenny Lofton*, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Mark McGwire, Jose Mesa*, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy**, Rafael Palmeiro, Mike Piazza*, Tim Raines, Reggie Sanders*, Curt Schilling*, Aaron Sele*, Lee Smith, Sammy Sosa*, Mike Stanton*, Alan Trammell, Larry Walker, Todd Walker*, David Wells*, Rondell White*, Bernie Williams, Woody Williams*.

* 1st-year candidates
** Last year of eligibility

DL from MN Posted: December 11, 2012 at 03:07 PM | 127 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. DL from MN Posted: December 11, 2012 at 03:25 PM (#4322124)

Hot topics - FYI I don't plan on tallying ballots but said I'd post the thread.

2. DL from MN Posted: December 11, 2012 at 03:34 PM (#4322141)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

13 players (Lofton, Sosa, Martinez) made the first cut. It's getting crowded.

3. DCA Posted: December 11, 2012 at 03:50 PM (#4322168)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Palmeiro
Piazza
Raines
Sosa
Trammell

would also vote for 7 more if ballot not capped at 10 names:

Lofton
Martinez
McGriff
Murphy
Schilling
L.Walker
B.Williams

4. DL from MN Posted: December 11, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4322173)

FYI - this is open to anyone.

5. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: December 11, 2012 at 03:55 PM (#4322179)

Bonds
Clemens
Piazza
Biggio
Bagwell
Raines
Sosa
Schilling
McGwire
Walker

6. JJ1986 Posted: December 11, 2012 at 04:01 PM (#4322194)

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Craig Biggio
Jeff Bagwell
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Tim Raines
Larry Walker
Mark McGwire

Would probably vote for 4 more.

7. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: December 11, 2012 at 04:09 PM (#4322209)

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Jeff Bagwell
Curt Schilling
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Craig Biggio
Mike Piazza
Larry Walker
Sammy Sosa

McGwire and Palmeiro are the guys who get pushed out by the ballot cap.

8. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 11, 2012 at 04:13 PM (#4322215)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Mark McGwire
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Apologies to Sosa and Palmeiro.

9. Srul Itza Posted: December 11, 2012 at 04:13 PM (#4322216)

Tough ballot. I began by eliminating everyone I could not vote for, including some HOVG types who are just below the borderline. This left:

1. Jeff Bagwell
2. Craig Biggio
3. Barry Bonds
4. Roger Clemens
5. Kenny Lofton
6. Edgar Martinez
7. Mark McGwire
8. Rafael Palmeiro
9. Mike Piazza
10. Tim Raines
11. Curt Schilling
12. Sammy Sosa
13. Alan Trammell
14. Larry Walker

I could make a HOF case for every one of them. Final cut:

1. Jeff Bagwell
2. Craig Biggio
3. Barry Bonds
4. Roger Clemens
5. Mark McGwire
6. Mike Piazza
7. Tim Raines
8. Curt Schilling
9. Sammy Sosa
10. Alan Trammell

And I really would like to find a spot for Larry Walker and Rafael Palmeiro

10. RJ in TO Posted: December 11, 2012 at 04:20 PM (#4322229)

1. Jeff Bagwell
2. Craig Biggio
3. Barry Bonds
4. Roger Clemens
5. Mark McGwire
6. Mike Piazza
7. Tim Raines
8. Curt Schilling
9. Sammy Sosa
10. Larry Walker

And, like Srul, there were another four or five guys for which I would vote, if the ballot was longer.

11. Rob_Wood Posted: December 11, 2012 at 04:43 PM (#4322265)

1. Barry Bonds
2. Roger Clemens
3. Mike Piazza
4. Jeff Bagwell
5. Curt Schilling
6. Craig Biggio
7. Rafael Palmeiro
8. Tim Raines
9. Mark McGwire
10. Larry Walker

(would also vote for one, two or three others -- Trammell for sure, Edgar maybe and Sosa unlikely)

12. Jittery McFrog Posted: December 11, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4322267)

1. Barry Bonds
2. Roger Clemens
3. Mike Piazza
4. Jeff Bagwell
5. Curt Schilling
6. Alan Trammell
7. Tim Raines
8. Sammy Sosa
9. Craig Biggio
10. Mark McGwire

Others I'd like to vote for:
Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez
Kenny Lofton

Others I'd give serious thought to but probably not vote for:
Dale Murphy
Rafael Palmeiro

13. Everybody Loves Tyrus Raymond Posted: December 11, 2012 at 04:56 PM (#4322273)

1. Clemens
2. Bonds
3. Bagwell
4. Piazza
5. Biggio
6. Sosa
7. McGwire
8. Raines
9. Palmeiro
10. Schilling

14. dlf Posted: December 11, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4322275)

1 Bagwell
2 Biggio
3 Bonds
4 Clemens
5 McGwire
6 Murphy
7 Piazza
8 Raines
9 Sosa
10 Trammell

I'll admit to some strategic choices with equally if not more qualified candidates being left out by ballot-position scarcity.

15. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: December 11, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4322276)

I'll be curious to see what percentage of us fill the ballot this year. I'm certainly going to.

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Lofton, McGwire, and Palmeiro would all be yeses if I had room, and Sosa probably would be as well; I've also voted for McGriff in at least one of these before.

16. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: December 11, 2012 at 05:09 PM (#4322283)

Tim Raines
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Sammy Sosa
Rafael Palmeiro
Curt Schilling

17. chisoxcollector Posted: December 11, 2012 at 05:14 PM (#4322285)

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Tim Raines
Mark McGwire
Sammy Sosa
Craig Biggio
Rafael Palmeiro
Curt Schilling

Would vote for Trammell as well if I had room.

18. The District Attorney Posted: December 11, 2012 at 05:18 PM (#4322290)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Edgar Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

19. pikepredator Posted: December 11, 2012 at 05:21 PM (#4322294)

1. Barry Bonds
2. Roger Clemens
3. Mike Piazza
4. Jeff Bagwell
5. Mark McGwire
6. Curt Schilling
7. Tim Raines
8. Alan Trammell
9. Rafael Palmeiro
10. Larry Walker

1st six were easy picks, my Small Hall. last four had to battle sosa, biggio, and martinez.

20. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: December 11, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4322317)

1. Jeff Bagwell
2. Barry Bonds
3. Roger Clemens
4. Kenny Lofton
5. Edgar Martinez
6. Mark McGwire
7. Mike Piazza
8. Curt Schilling
9. Alan Trammell
10. Larry Walker

Raines, Biggio, Sosa and Palmeiro would be the next three that I'd consider next year, and they're in no particular order since they didn't make the Top 10. I suspect I'd vote for Raines and Biggio next year but I'm not sure about Sosa or Palmeiro. In case anyone cares, I based this mostly on Career WAA, with a Catcher Bonus, and a Peak Bonus. I didn't give extra credit to extrapolate strike-shortened seasons. The Top 10 are alphabetical.

21. BDC

Posted: December 11, 2012 at 06:53 PM (#4322382)

A full ten-name ballot for once in my life, alphabetically:

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Sosa
Trammell

22. karlmagnus Posted: December 11, 2012 at 06:54 PM (#4322384)

1. Bagwell
2. Biggio
3. Bonds
4. Clemens
5. Edgar Martinez
6. McGwire
7. Piazza
8. Raines
9. Schilling
10. Trammell

- just based on where I'd had them in HOM voting. Trammell/Palmeiro the only difficult choice.

23. Baldrick Posted: December 11, 2012 at 07:18 PM (#4322415)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Martinez
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Trammell
Walker

I would love to vote for more, but those are my 10.

24. Willie Mays Hayes Posted: December 11, 2012 at 07:40 PM (#4322439)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Kenny Lofton
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell

Leaving off Edgar, Sosa, and Walker is very difficult.

25. OCF Posted: December 11, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4322469)

Someone with an actual Hall of Fame vote should probably not post on this particular thread, but T.R. Sullivan announced his actual vote on a Dale Murphy thread. (See post #21.)

26. Moeball Posted: December 11, 2012 at 08:54 PM (#4322472)

My picks are:

Bags
Biggio
Bonds
Rocket
BigMac
62nd round draft pick
Raines
Tram
Raffy
Schilling

Wait til next year?...Lofton, Edgar, McGriff, Sammy, Larry? Wow, there are a ton of quality players on this ballot...

27. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 11, 2012 at 09:01 PM (#4322475)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Palmeiro
Piazza
Raines
Sosa
Trammell

More if allowed.

28. OCF Posted: December 11, 2012 at 09:08 PM (#4322481)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Trammell
Walker

I only voted for 9 last year, but I did vote for Martinez, McGriff and Palmiero, and I would vote for Lofton and Sosa this year.

29. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: December 11, 2012 at 09:14 PM (#4322486)

roberto hernandez
jose mesa
aaron sele
lee smith
mike stanton

30. . . . . . . Posted: December 11, 2012 at 09:14 PM (#4322487)

Craig Biggio
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell

31. Srul Itza Posted: December 11, 2012 at 09:18 PM (#4322489)

I guess the Small Hall people haven't shown up yet. Every ballot is at max, with most voters saying they would have voted for more if it were allowed.

EDIT: Refreshed too late. OF course, nobobdy takes Steagles or 'zop seriously, so they don't count.

32. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 11, 2012 at 09:23 PM (#4322494)

1. Bonds
2. Clemens
3. Biggio
4. McGwire
5. Piazza
6. Bagwell
7. Raines
8. Trammell
9. Schilling
10. Martinez

Sosa falls a bit short.
Palmeiro is off my list for testing positive during the season.
McGriff I can't squeeze in, nor Walker.
Lofton got some consideration.
Morris, Smith, B.Williams, Wells, Mattingly, and Murphy aren't in the running.

33. rawagman Posted: December 11, 2012 at 09:41 PM (#4322515)

In order, I vote for:
1. Barry Bonds
2. Roger Clemens
3. Mike Piazza
4. Jeff Bagwell
5. Tim Raines
6. Craig Biggio
7. Alan Trammell
8. Curt Schilling
9. Larry Walker
10. Rafael Palmeiro

If the ballot were unlimited, I would also have supported: Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Mark McGwire, Dale Murphy, Sammy Sosa

34. Chris Cobb Posted: December 11, 2012 at 09:44 PM (#4322520)

With 14 players on this ballot either in the Hall of Merit or sure to be elected in a year or two, this is, as everyone says, a ridiculously crowded ballot. I'd vote for 14 if I could, but here are the top 10:

1. Bonds
2. Clemens
3. Piazza
4. Bagwell
5. Trammell
6. Raines
7. Schilling
8. Biggio
9. McGwire
10. Walker

Martinez, Palmeiro, Sosa, and Lofton all worthy but squeezed out. Next year's ballot is going to be completely ridiculous . . .

35. jobu Posted: December 11, 2012 at 09:53 PM (#4322533)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Trammell (and Lou Whitaker)

36. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: December 11, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4322545)

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Curt Schilling
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Craig Biggio
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire

Unlike the BBWAA balloting, the question isn't whether anyone will be elected but rather whether we might elect 10.

Sure wish I could also vote for Palmeiro, Sosa, and Walker

37. Booey Posted: December 11, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4322606)

I guess the Small Hall people haven't shown up yet

I'd guess even many typically small hall voters could list 10 names on this ballot.

Some tough calls. I think I'll go with:

1) Bonds
2) Clemens
3) Bagwell
4) Piazza
5) Biggio
6) McGwire
7) Sosa
8) Palmeiro
9) Trammell
10) Raines

I'd also add Schilling, Walker, Martinez, and McGriff if I could. This is the first time where I've thought the 10 name maximum rule was unreasonable.

38. cardsfanboy

Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:57 AM (#4322666)

1. Bonds
2. Clemens
3. Piazza
4. McGwire
5. Biggio
6. Bagwell
7. Schilling
8. Trammell
9. Raines
10.Palmeiro

Off the top of my head, that is in the order I would also rank them. I really wish I could have put Sosa on here, he's the one I regret not putting in here. Edgar and Walker are more or less the same player for me, and I would have to vote for both of them or neither. I just hope McGriff and Lofton continue to stay on the ballot so that I can continue to reevaluate their candidacy. I was tempted to

39. JoeC Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:02 AM (#4322669)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

40. bobm Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:15 AM (#4322674)

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Jeff Bagwell
Curt Schilling
Tim Raines
Craig Biggio
Mike Piazza

41. Ivo Shandor Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:31 AM (#4322680)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Martinez
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
L. Walker

42. BrianBrianson Posted: December 12, 2012 at 04:47 AM (#4322714)

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Jeff Bagwell
Lou Whitaker (I realise write-in votes aren't allowed, but given that it doesn't stop the actual voters, I don't see why it should stop me)

43. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: December 12, 2012 at 08:39 AM (#4322757)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Trammell
Walker

Palmiero and Smith are knocked off due to the extremely strong class this year.

44. AJMcCringleberry Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:24 AM (#4322862)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell

Would also vote for:

Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Dale Murphy
Lee Smith
Sammy Sosa
Larry Walker
Bernie Williams

45. Bleed the Freak Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:26 AM (#4322865)

14 worthy players:

Jeff Bagwell,
Craig Biggio*,
Barry Bonds*,
Roger Clemens*,
Kenny Lofton*,
Edgar Martinez,
Mark McGwire,
Rafael Palmeiro,
Mike Piazza*,
Tim Raines,
Curt Schilling*,
Sammy Sosa*,
Alan Trammell,
Larry Walker,

Kick out: Lofton, Edgar, Walker, Palmeiro,

Bernie Williams is a case in post-season credit and valuation of defense...on the fence with him.

46. Esoteric Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:30 AM (#4322873)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Curt Schilling
Edgar Martinez
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Mike Piazza
Larry Walker

Sorry folks, I'm in the extreme minority at Primer in that I will not vote for (reasonably) proven PED guys. (That means that although I'm familiar with the whispers about Bagwell and Piazza, there isn't anything approaching sufficient evidence IMO against them.) Don't worry -- I don't think Bonds, Clemens, et al. are going to be prevented from getting into the BBTF Hall of Fame by my lack of a vote.

47. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:31 AM (#4322875)

Bonds
Clemens
Piazza
Bagwell
Biggio
Schilling
Raines
Trammell
Sosa
McGwire

I'd like to vote for Pammeiro and Lofton, and maybe Edgar as well. Too bad.

48. SoSH U at work Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:32 AM (#4322879)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Lofton
McGwire
Raines
Piazza
Schilling
Trammell

49. Mark Donelson Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:43 AM (#4322893)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Trammell
Walker

50. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:46 AM (#4322901)

In alphabetical order,

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Roger Clemens
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell

I may be the only one here who votes for Clemens and Sosa but not Bonds, but we'll see. Anyway, that's got to be a pretty strong ballot for me to actually fill all ten slots.

Oh, and I'd also want to write in Lou Whitaker, even if that ballot was only used to light cigars.

51. sotapop Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:05 AM (#4322926)

Pretty easy to get to the seven (to me) no-brainers; from there it's tough:
Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Piazza
Raines
Trammell
Walker
Schilling
Martinez

Looked back at several and was surprised. Edgar overcame my DH bias. McGriff nearly made it. (What if the Yankees had kept him and traded Mattingly?) Also liked Murphy more than expected.

52. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:07 AM (#4322929)

Clemens and Sosa but not Bonds

Oh, sure, vote for the two white guys, racist! ;-)

53. Qufini Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:14 AM (#4322942)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Morris
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Trammell
Walker

54. Mike Webber Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:15 AM (#4322945)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell

Would also vote for:

Edgar Martinez
Sammy Sosa
Larry Walker

55. The District Attorney Posted: December 12, 2012 at 11:26 AM (#4322958)

Correction to #18, please replace.

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

56. Nolan Giesbrecht Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4323024)

Wow, first cut left me with fifteen players; second cut eliminates Loften, Martinez, Sosa, McGriff, and Biggio. My ballot:

Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

57. slothinator Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4323056)

I never thought I could be convinced Edgar was a HOFer - mostly because of the DH - but the time I spent looking over his numbers yesterday changed my mind. An amazing amount of talent on this ballot; I really wanted Walker, and I still torn over Trammel.

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Edgar Martinez
Fred McGriff
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa

58. HGM Posted: December 12, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4323078)

1) Alan Trammell
2) Barry Bonds
3) Craig Biggio
4) Curt Schilling
5) Jeff Bagwell
6) Mark McGwire
7) Mike Piazza
8) Roger Clemens
9) Sammy Sosa
10) Tim Raines

Would also vote for Rafael Palmeiro, Edgar Martinez, and Larry Walker if not for the 10 player limit.

59. TDF, trained monkey Posted: December 12, 2012 at 01:00 PM (#4323093)

Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Kenny Lofton
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Yea, like others, I'd vote for Palmeiro, Sosa, Martinez, and Whittaker without thinking about it, and could be persuaded on Murphy and McGriff.

Unlike the BBWAA balloting, the question isn't whether anyone will be elected but rather whether we might elect 10.

Looking at the ballots, no because after the first 5 or 6 there might be 8 or 9 guys at 70% because they're all so close.

60. bjhanke Posted: December 12, 2012 at 02:03 PM (#4323163)

Brock Hanke's ballot:

Bagwell
Biggio
Barry Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Sosa
Trammell

61. Meatwad Posted: December 12, 2012 at 02:11 PM (#4323175)

Clemens
Bonds
Sosa
Raines
Trammell
Piazza
McGwire
Bagwell
Schilling
Biggio

this was very very hard to do, also mine are in no order in particular.

62. Rusty Priske Posted: December 12, 2012 at 02:12 PM (#4323176)

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Tim Raines
Larry Walker
Alan Trammell
Edgar Martinez

The 'if I had mroe room' votes are: Fred McGriff, Dale Murphy, Bernie Williams

63. and Posted: December 12, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4323183)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

64. Bourbon Samurai stays in the fight Posted: December 12, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4323189)

My vote, roughly "in order" for hall of fame purposes, is as follows:

1. Barry Bonds
2. Roger Clemens
3. Mark McGwire
4. Mike Piazza
5. Curt Schilling
6. Sammy Sosa
7. Craig Biggio
8. Tim Raines
9. Jeff Bagwell
10. Alan Trammell

65. Fridas Boss Posted: December 12, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4323203)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell

66. Petunia inquires about ponies Posted: December 12, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4323210)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Martinez
Piazza
Raines
Trammell
Walker

Lofton and Sosa are the next closest. I'd vote for Lofton if I had 11, Sosa's less obvious to me. Schilling is probably a no for me. Palmeiro... I remain torn but leaning no. I think Bernie's a no as well. On the other hand I have a hard time really drawing a delineation between Martinez/Walker and Sosa/Palmeiro that I'm comfortable living with. If my vote actually mattered and I was able to vote for 14 guys I probably would (still no on Schilling).

67. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: December 12, 2012 at 03:24 PM (#4323249)

Jeff Bagwell (2011)
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Rafael Palmeiro (2012)
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines (2008)
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell (2002)
Larry Walker (2011)

Year in parenthesis is the year these guys were elected to the Hall of Merit. Edgar was elected in 2010 and McGwire in 2007 also.

This was a tough ballot. I easily could have voted for 15. I would give a yes to Bernie Williams, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa easily. Possibly Lofton, Edgar and McGriff too. If ballot had been properly cleared by the BBWAA over the last decade, I would easily have room to add Williams, Mattingly, Sosa, Lofton and McGriff.

I am not a supporter of Mattingly, Lofton or McGriff per se, but I always vote for all ten spots unless the guys are just obviously terrible choices. I don't think this type of election works properly if people don't vote for ten most of the time.

68. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: December 12, 2012 at 05:55 PM (#4323442)

If I have to put them in order (does someone tally that way too?)

Bonds
Clemens
Piazza
Raines
Trammell
Bagwell
Biggio
Schilling
Palmeiro
Walker

69. LargeBill Posted: December 12, 2012 at 06:22 PM (#4323459)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio*
Barry Bonds*
Roger Clemens*
Kenny Lofton*
Rafael Palmeiro
Mike Piazza*
Curt Schilling*
Lee Smith
Sammy Sosa*

70. Infinite Yost (Voxter)

Posted: December 12, 2012 at 06:23 PM (#4323460)

Alphabetical order, w/ comments:

1) Jeff Bagwell -- About as good an all-around player as you're going to get from a corner. Kind of is to Albert Pujols and Jimmy Foxx was to Lou Gehrig.

2) Craig Biggio* -- A hell of a lot of fun to watch play. Selfless ballplayer, willing to play any position to stay on the field. Could have been a world-class catcher, as well. Stuck around too long to reach some milestones.

3) Barry Bonds -- The single greatest ballplayer since the retirement of Mays -- and that was before he bulked up. I don't dare hope to see his like again; I lived in the SF suburbs in the fall of 2002, and the atmosphere was absolutely magical. The man was god-damned invincible. Once saw him hit a triple . . . after he got heavy.

4) Roger Clemens -- Lacked the pure electricity of Pedro at his peak, or the terrifying presence of the Unit, but had an incredible combination of physical toughness and pitching intelligence that made him the greatest pitcher of the 5-man-rotation era, possibly the greatest pitcher other than Walter Johnson. Murderous splitter. Unrepentant yokel. Also seemed invincible at times.

5) Edgar Martinez -- The toughest call for me was Martinez over Sosa / Walker. I will admit to a sentimental attachment, here, but this isn't the Hall of Merit, it's the (pretend) Hall of Fame, and Gar was everything a kid growing up in the Northwest wanted to be: smart, patient, humble, tough. Just a hell of a hitter -- probably the greatest DH ever. The arguments of those who feel his lack of defense disqualifies him don't exactly fall on deaf ears for me, but if the Hall has room for relievers, it has room for one of the greatest hitters of his generation. Much more of an idol to schoolboys in the PNW than A-Rod ever was.

6) Mark McGwire -- Once signed a napkin for me at a bagel shop in Claremont, CA, where he grew up and I went to college.

7) Mike Piazza -- The greatest hitting catcher of all time, excepting maybe Josh Gibson. A much, much better fielder than he was given credit for; an intelligent handler of pitchers and a good field general with a weak arm and small hands that caused him to be not much good at the most obvious, but not most important, aspect of a catcher's game: throwing out baserunners. A hero to teenaged catchers (like me) everywhere in the 1990s.

8) Tim Raines -- Pass.

9) Curt Schilling -- My least-favorite player from the 2004 Red Sox; high in the running for my least-favorite player of all time. But the ############ could pitch.

10) Alan Trammell -- AT's lack of mainstream support continues to mystify me. He passes every test I can think of: best player at his position more than once; best player on a great team that won the WS; good defender, good hitter; even has the "small ball"-type qualifications that some writers claim to find lacking in other players. He even "felt like" a Hall of Famer: how is this man still on the outside looking in?

LEFT OFF, NOT BECAUSE UNQUALIFIED, BUT BECAUSE OF SPACE ISSUES:

Rafael Palmeiro -- Overrated fielder, no discernable peak, but too consistently good to ignore. I sometimes think that both HoF and HoM voters systematically underrate players like Palmeiro because of an emphasis on peak value and having a systematic approach. It destroys nuance and pointlessly disqualifies people. I voted for him last year; I would vote for him in any other.

Kenny Lofton -- Similar to Palmeiro in that his peak isn't all that high, but he was a great percentage player, and he's one of the few with very high dWAR numbers to pass my eyeball test. Not unlike Raines, to me.

Sammy Sosa -- Good fielder in youth, terrible fielder in age. Okay hitter in youth, great hitter later on. Mark McGwire's beard. Unfairly maligned.

Larry Walker -- All-around player who is very unlikely to make the real Hall, but who suffers from a sort of reverse-Coors effect: I think people underrate him because they know how much his ballpark inflated stats, and thus are blind to the fact that he was a great hitter anywhere.

71. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili (TeddyF.Ballgame) Posted: December 12, 2012 at 06:41 PM (#4323467)

Bonds
Bagwell
Biggio
Clemens
Edgar Martinez
Palmeiro
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Trammell

Left off Lofton, Sosa, McGwire, and Larry Walker because of the vote cap. Next year for them, and maybe Bernie Williams.

72. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: December 12, 2012 at 07:36 PM (#4323489)

For the sake of my own informal ballot tally (which I'm not going to post here, of course), does the ballot in #28 count?

73. Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet Posted: December 12, 2012 at 07:51 PM (#4323494)

In order:

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Tim Raines
Larry Walker
Craig Biggio
Mark McGwire

Sosa, Martinez, Palmeiro and Lofton would also be over my PHoM line but there's no space for them.

74. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: December 12, 2012 at 07:55 PM (#4323495)

Left off Lofton, Sosa, McGwire, and Larry Walker because of the vote cap. Next year for them, and maybe Bernie Williams.

Not only will there be no room for them next year, but some of the guys you voted for this time as well. More qualified guys will come on next year (Maddux, Thomas, Glavine, Mussina) than will be elected this year.

75. theorioleway Posted: December 12, 2012 at 07:55 PM (#4323496)

Re 72, I assume you mean 29...

On ballot:
1. Barry Bonds
2. Roger Clemens
3. Mike Piazza
4. Curt Schilling
5. Jeff Bagwell
6. Alan Trammell
7. Tim Raines
8. Rafael Palmeiro
9. Larry Walker
10. Craig Biggio

Just off due to space:
1. Edgar Martinez
2. Mark McGwire
3. Sammy Sosa
4. Kenny Lofton

76. OCF Posted: December 12, 2012 at 08:13 PM (#4323504)

For the sake of my own informal ballot tally (which I'm not going to post here, of course), does the ballot in #28 count?

As the person who posted #28 (thanks, guys) and as someone who probably will tally and communicate the results to Joe for posting ...

I'll say that the post by STEAGLES (#29) is a joke, and a joke does not count. The post by 'zop (#30) is an outlier opinion, which is not the same thing as a joke, and does count.

77. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: December 12, 2012 at 08:48 PM (#4323515)

Re 72, I assume you mean 29...

Heh. Yes, I did mean #29. I was already counting #30.

78. Soul Man Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:11 PM (#4323546)

No less than fourteen candidates that I'd feel comfortable voting for.

Roughly in order, but not exact. I could see myself flipping Raines and Walker, and I'm not 100% sure about anyone's placement after them.

1) Barry Bonds - I saw #756: Greatest "Eh, I'll watch one at bat before bed" ever
2) Roger Clemens - Easily the least likable of the Big Four, but perhaps the most qualified.
3) Jeff Bagwell - Short career, but about as great a 15-year career as anyone could ask for. I seem to remember him barely being able to throw by the end of his career; apart from that I'm not positive that his game had any weak spots.
4) Curt Schilling - Possibly the 5th best pitcher of his generation, easily in the top 10. A big pile of strikeouts with few walks, and the postseason record doesn't hurt, even though it's not necessary.
5) Mike Piazza - WAR has no love for catchers. If his defense was as bad as his reputation, someone could have moved him to 1st, where his bat still probably would have landed him in the Hall.

After that, no one really stands out as head and shoulders above the rest.

6) Tim Raines - Fully qualified; it would be easier to choose him from among the rest if he had played CF, and it isn't so far-fetched to think he would have on a different team. I'm a little surprised his baserunning wasn't worth more.
7) Larry Walker - Loses major points for in-season durability; I'd like him better if he'd had a compact, durable career like Bagwell. But he was an elite talent, the epitome of a five-tool player.
8) Craig Biggio - Not as much of a compiler as Palmeiro, but a compiler nonetheless. Turn a couple of his good seasons into great ones and he probably ends up on the top half
of the ballot.
9) Alan Trammell - Another durability issue, though he was better at staying on the field than Walker. Not as great, though.
10) Rafael Palmeiro - Woody Allen famously noted that "80% of success is showing up". At one point I had given this spot to Mac, then Edgar, but it's Palmeiro's tireless good-to-greatness that gets him the final place on my ballot. A compiler, but a Hall of fame-caliber one. From 1988-2004, didn't miss more than 10 games in a season, and was well above average for most of that time.

Outside:

Edgar Martinez - He could absolutely hit, but at this moment (as in, it could change as soon as I post my ballot), Palmeiro's 3300 extra PAs, in-season durability, and defense beat Edgar's superior bat. As a side note, my mom once employed a woman who claimed to be his cousin. If she had been able to return my card, autographed, I may have a different ballot.

Mark McGwire - I don't like one-dimensional take-and-rake sluggers in general, even though he may have been the best (it's either him or Thome). Short, magnificent career, but not enough. Practically anything - speed, defense, longer career, durability - would have gotten him on the ballot.

Kenny Lofton - Raines was better. I would love to get a chance to vote for him, but here in his first year on the ballot he's already lost in the shuffle, with a wave of talent to come over the next several years; I'm not optimistic.

Sammy Sosa - 8 seasons of 60+ HRs in Major League history, and he has 3 of them. It's hard to say no to that. But I'm not sure what to make of his career. It's hard to tell whether his best argument is peak or prime. His peak has some truly eye-popping Hr and RBI totals, but also coincides pretty closely with the height of sillyball. His prime adds a few years of one-dimensional mashing + speed and defense. But the whole thing just doesn't add up - he doesn't work as a career candidate, despite the HRs, WAR isn't very friendly to his peak, and his prime isn't anymore impressive than the other zillion qualified candidates. I'd give him extra credit for narrative, etc., on a weaker ballot, but this one's way too deep.

79. Josh1 Posted: December 12, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4323561)

Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Curt Schilling
Craig Biggio
Alan Trammell
Tim Raines
Larry Walker
Mark McGwire

These guys also belong in the HoF but miss my top 10:
Rafael Palmeiro
Edgar Martinez
Sammy Sosa
Kenny Lofton

80. JC Posted: December 13, 2012 at 12:11 AM (#4323602)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Curt Schilling
Edgar Martinez
Barry Bonds
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Mike Piazza
Larry Walker

81. Rob_Wood Posted: December 13, 2012 at 12:51 AM (#4323614)

JC, I count nine names on your ballot and don't see Roger Clemens.

82. EricC Posted: December 13, 2012 at 05:25 AM (#4323643)

Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds, Barry
Clemens
Martinez, Edgar
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Trammell
Williams, Bernie

Regrets to several deserving players who had to be left off.

83. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: December 13, 2012 at 11:28 AM (#4323773)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker

Not only will there be no room for them next year, but some of the guys you voted for this time as well. More qualified guys will come on next year (Maddux, Thomas, Glavine, Mussina) than will be elected this year.

Unfortunately, there may be some help in the other direction, as people don't make 5%. I'll be (pleasantly) surprised if Larry Walker's still an option next year.

84. Kiko Sakata

Posted: December 13, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4323795)

I'd probably vote for 16 guys if there was no ballot limit. Because there is a ballot limit, I voted somewhat strategically as if I were voting in the actual BBWAA election at the end of my ballot. Specifically, I left out McGwire, Palmeiro, and Sosa because they're not going to be elected because of the steroids (although I'm not entirely sure that any of them would have actually made the ballot anyway), and my 10th slot went to a player who I thought probably needed the most help just to stay on the ballot (to be clear: I think he's a worthy HOFer, just not necessarily one of the 10 most worthy on this year's ballot):

Sort of in order:

1. Barry Bonds
2. Roger Clemens
3. Mike Piazza
4. Alan Trammell
5. Jeff Bagwell
6. Craig Biggio
7. Curt Schilling
8. Larry Walker
9. Tim Raines
10. Kenny Lofton

Honorable mention (the other 6 guys I'd vote for): Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa, Edgar Martinez, Fred McGriff, Dale Murphy

85. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: December 13, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4323884)

Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell

86. Elvis Posted: December 13, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4323940)

Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Rafael Palmeiro
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Larry Walker

HM - Biggio, Lofton, McGriff, Sosa, Trammell

87. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: December 13, 2012 at 06:45 PM (#4324327)

As the person who posted #28 (thanks, guys) and as someone who probably will tally and communicate the results to Joe for posting ...

I'll say that the post by STEAGLES (#29) is a joke, and a joke does not count. The post by 'zop (#30) is an outlier opinion, which is not the same thing as a joke, and does count.

this isn't the hall of merit, where each ballot is some kind of sacred covenant. this is a mock hall of fame vote, and as such, a joke ballot should be every bit as valid as an intellectually honest one.

88. Rob_Wood Posted: December 13, 2012 at 07:54 PM (#4324364)

not really

89. Repoz

Posted: December 13, 2012 at 08:02 PM (#4324368)

Bonds
Bagwell
Biggio
Clemens
McGwire
Palmeiro
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Trammell

90. DL from MN Posted: December 13, 2012 at 08:51 PM (#4324393)

this is a mock hall of fame vote, and as such, a joke ballot should be every bit as valid as an intellectually honest one

Didn't read the instructions or can't understand them?

we hope to see only players that each voter feels belong on their ballots - if you don’t feel he really is a HOFer, then please refrain from posting that player’s name (examples of whom I am referring to are Mookie Wilson, Scott Brosius, Buddy Biancalana - players who were well liked or were underdogs, but have no creditable HOF resume). Leaving 1st-year candidates off your ballot is also frowned upon. IOW, we would like to see an absence of some of the silliness that permeates Hall of Fame voting by the writers.

91. Mike Emeigh

Posted: December 13, 2012 at 09:57 PM (#4324419)

Bonds
Clemens
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Lee Smith

I wasn't going to vote for Schilling, but then I took a look at his run support again. Schilling's teams won 89 games when he was handed 4 or fewer runs of support; a typical team of his era would have won 67 over that same number of starts. Given the parks that he pitched in most of his career (most of which were good hitters' parks) that's a really good record; the guys who do that well are usually guys like Seaver and Ryan who spent a lot of years in pitchers' parks. Furthermore, Schilling's team performance was better than expected almost across the board, distributed fairly evenly across every level of support - there wasn't a level where Schilling's teams fell below expectations by more than a win.

My position on PED usage boils down to this - the one thing that I know about PEDs is that they help you recover more quickly from aches and pains and help you stay on the field more. Thus, the more that a player's case relies on longevity and/or durability, the more sure that I have to be that the player didn't use in order to put him on the ballot. That's why no McGwire or Bagwell, and now no Biggio. I went back and forth on Biggio a lot, but I left him off because his case rests to a large degree on his exceptional durability and with what is out there about the clubhouse environment in Houston during his career I'm not sufficiently convinced that he was clean. For me, Bonds, Clemens, and Piazza at their best were *so* much better than the norm that the PEDs don't come into play; they'd have been clear HOFers even with careers that were 2-3 years shorter. That isn't the case for McGwire, Bagwell, or Biggio, at least in my evaluation.

-- MWE

92. /muteself 57i66135 Posted: December 13, 2012 at 09:57 PM (#4324421)

Didn't read the instructions or can't understand them?

probably more A than B.

93. Mike Emeigh

Posted: December 13, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4324445)

Too late to edit #92, but with four or fewer runs of support:

Schilling was +22 over a typical pitcher
Blyleven was +16
Morris was +10

and both Blyleven and Morris had longer careers, pitching in lower run environments in general.

There's an article in this but I don't think I'm going to get it written before the end of the year.

-- MWE

94. Bleed the Freak Posted: December 14, 2012 at 12:28 AM (#4324503)

Mwe, you always have interesting and well thoughtout comments and selections.

If you had to, could you name 15 players who belong in the hall of merit who havent been elected, and 15 that are unworthy that have been elected.

Thanks

95. RollingWave Posted: December 14, 2012 at 01:21 AM (#4324518)

Bonds
Clemens
Piazza
Biggio
Bagwell
Raines
Tramell
Schilling
Walker
McGwire

possibly one of the few rare times so many ppl would have trouble fitting everyone they want to vote for on the ballot, Lofton / Martinez/ Palmerio / Sosa / McGriff are all reasonable candidates IMHO (in that order, Lofton / Martinez is interchangable with Walker / McGwire to some extend I'd think)

96. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: December 14, 2012 at 03:55 AM (#4324533)

Jeff Bagwell
Barry Larkin
Edgar Martinez
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Curt Shilling
Craig Biggio
Mike Piazza

Sorry folks, I'm in the extreme minority at Primer in that I will not vote for (reasonably) proven PED guys.

High Five.

I guess the Small Hall people haven't shown up yet. Every ballot is at max, with most voters saying they would have voted for more if it were allowed.

EDIT: Refreshed too late. OF course, nobobdy takes Steagles or 'zop seriously, so they don't count.

Do people take me seriously? I honestly have no idea. They shouldn't of course...

97. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: December 14, 2012 at 07:07 AM (#4324548)

Barry Larkin

Again?

98. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: December 14, 2012 at 08:08 AM (#4324555)

Okay, so I copied and pasted my ballot from last year, and forgot to take him off. You try composing a coherent post at 4.50 in the morning.

99. Kiko Sakata

Posted: December 14, 2012 at 10:22 AM (#4324662)

Barry Larkin

Again?

Lefty Grove got 6 votes in an actual HOF election 13 years after he was elected (after correctly receiving no votes for the 12 years before that).

100. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: December 14, 2012 at 10:47 AM (#4324696)

He was just THAT good.

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