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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Thursday, January 03, 20132014 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion2014 (December 2, 2013)—elect 3 398 96.9 Greg Maddux-P |
BookmarksYou must be logged in to view your Bookmarks. Hot Topics2023 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(168 - 1:46pm, Jul 13) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: Trophy Case (71 - 6:53pm, Jul 08) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1900 Results (6 - 6:28pm, Jul 08) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1900 Ballot (11 - 4:03pm, Jul 06) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1918 Results (6 - 8:58pm, Jun 29) Last: kenna Most Meritorious Player: 1920 Ballot (25 - 8:55pm, Jun 29) Last: kenna Most Meritorious Player: 1900 Discussion (9 - 1:14am, Jun 29) Last: Harmon Ripkowski Hall of Merit Book Club (6 - 12:45pm, Jun 28) Last: progrockfan Most Meritorious Player: 1899 Results (6 - 1:51pm, Jun 22) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1899 Ballot (10 - 9:54am, Jun 22) Last: TomH Most Meritorious Player: 1899 Discussion (9 - 9:04am, May 31) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1898 Results (4 - 3:22pm, May 06) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1898 Ballot (8 - 10:07am, May 05) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1898 Discussion (7 - 1:08am, May 02) Last: Harmon Ripkowski Most Meritorious Player: 1897 Results (2 - 4:29pm, Apr 06) Last: DL from MN |
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http://www.stevesteinberg.net/baseball_history/baseball_personalities/urban_shocker/UrbanShocker_FreeAgency.asp
1) Frank Thomas - Best AL hitter of early 1990s.
2) Greg Maddux - Phenomenal pitcher whom as a GM I'd want more than Clemens.
3) Albert Belle - Returns to my ballot after Frank Thomas' eligibility leads to a re-examination of the 1990s AL.
4) Burleigh Grimes - Quality pitcher from a hitter's era.
5) Bucky Walters - Something of a Roger Clemens Lite, in that he has seasons of a quality that can carry a team to a pennant.
6) Hugh Duffy - Sustained excellence over a four-year period.
7) Vic Willis - Dropped a couple of places from last year, as he lacks the sustained period found in Duffy's career.
8) Tom Glavine - A fine pitcher, but too often there was one better.
9) Jim Rice - He had two superb years in the 1970s, and had a few doinant hitting seasons during baseball's most balanced period.
10) Thurman Munson - Catchers are undervalued, in my opinion, by all uber-stat systems, and an old favourite returns to the ballot. He kept Carlton Fisk from dominating the AL in the 1970s May yet move higher.
11) Pie Traynor - Greatest 3B of his era.
12) Ben Taylor - Similar case to Traynor as best of his time.
13) Kirby Puckett - Equivalent to Rice, but not as peaked.
14) Phil Rizzuto - He doesn't really need war credit to get here. 1950 carries him on to my ballot
15) Jeff Kent - Not entirely convinced of his placement here. Very much a Sillyball Era creation. Makes my ballot on account of my positional balance appraoch.
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Curt Schilling is like Tom Glavine, in that there is always someone better in a given season, but not quite as good as Glavine as being second- or third-best.
Cannonball Dick Redding's case has been mortally wounded by the Seamheads' research, IMO.
Sammy Sosa is like Jeff Kent, in that outside the Sillyball Era there is just not enough excellence to attract my attention.
New Guys
Mike Mussina has more Merit than Schilling, but not as much as Glavine.
Grimes 5
Glavine 5
Mussina 4
Schilling 3
Grimes is given the tiebreaker because I've got his 1920 season as of MVP-calibre. Glavine has no such seasons. Especially for pitchers, I favour these kinds of high-impact seasons, which is why Walters is ranked so high on my ballot. For hitters, I am not quite as aggressive in giving an advantage to big seasons, although 'not quite' still means I might be more aggressive than the typical HoM voter, as my voting for Rice shows.
For me, the interesting debate between here and the final ballot is whether Willis really is ahead of Glavine. Last year I was UP on Willis, but this year I'm down. Glavine is best positioned to take advantage of that.
FTFY
And "top 3 finish" for All-Star consideration doesn't even make sense in an era with a 5 man pitching rotation. That's like a top 0.6 finish at 1B.
You appear to misunderstand my conception of an All-Star, which is the pitchers who will pitch through a single game, not the pitchers who make up a rotation. A really good season for a relief pitcher theoretically might push aside a starter.
I would agree with DL from MN in that without making adjustments for the vastly different usages of pitchers in the modern era and the substantial increase in the competition, scaling those numbers over time would be fairer to all and sundry.
I've thought about this a lot over the years, and once on the ballot I prefer evaluating players largely in relation to their peers. The fundamental questions to me, drawing on the Keltner list, are
Grimes, at either end of what I have identified as his prime (1920-1929), fits #3 better than Glavine.
Walters
Willis
Glavine
Grimes
Mussina
Schilling
Grimes has some duff seasons in between his better ones during his prime. Therefore, I ought to give Glavine a bit more credit for not being nearly so bad in comparison. But if I do that, the same applies to Willis. At the moment, I see Willis and Glavine as roughly equal in terms of Merit, and the same for Grimes and Mussina.
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