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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Monday, December 22, 20142015 Election Results - Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez & Curt Schilling elected to the Hall of Merit!Congratulations to the Class of 2015! Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling have been elected to the Hall of Merit. The election was dominated by pitchers. In addition to the top 3, Mike Mussina was a strong 4th, followed closely by John Smoltz. Gary Sheffield and Sammy Sosa were 6th and 7th, both with enough support that their eventual election looks inevitable. Moving further into the backlog Kenny Lofton, Buddy Bell, Jeff Kent, Luis Tiant, Ben Taylor and Vic Willis round out the top 10 runner-ups, meaning they will have to evaluated on every ballot, even if they aren’t voted for. Bobby Bonds, Sal Bando and Phil Rizzuto were in the pack right behind that group. Here is the final tally: Rk LY Player Pts Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 n/e Randy Johnson 816 34 34 2 n/e Pedro Martinez 775 34 32 1 1 3 4 Curt Schilling 661 33 22 7 1 3 ******************************************************************************* 4 5 Mike Mussina 552 33 3 19 5 5 1 5 n/e John Smoltz 535 34 3 3 17 5 1 2 2 1 6 n/e Gary Sheffield 496 33 2 4 5 10 5 1 1 2 1 2 7 6 Sammy Sosa 331 28 2 5 4 7 2 4 2 1 1 8 7 Kenny Lofton 203 17 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 9 11 Buddy Bell 188 18 1 4 1 2 1 2 6 1 10 8 Jeff Kent 157 13 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 1 2 11 9 Luis Tiant 149 16 1 1 2 1 1 2 5 3 12 13 Ben Taylor 117 11 4 1 1 1 3 1 13 14 Vic Willis 116 13 1 1 4 2 2 1 2 ******************************************************************************* 14 10 Bobby Bonds 109 10 1 1 3 1 3 1 15 17 Sal Bando 96 10 3 2 3 1 1 16 12 Phil Rizzuto 90 8 1 3 2 2 17 21 Dick Redding 68 5 1 1 2 1 18 16 Gavy Cravath 67 7 1 1 1 1 2 1 19 22 Hilton Smith 65 6 1 2 2 1 20 18 Don Newcombe 63 7 1 1 1 3 1 21T 15 Hugh Duffy 61 6 1 1 1 1 1 1 21T 23T Bert Campaneris 61 6 1 2 1 1 1 23 23T Tommy Bridges 59 5 3 1 1 24 n/e Brian Giles 58 6 1 1 1 1 2 25 29T Jim McCormick 58 5 1 1 1 1 1 26 32 Ed Williamson 56 5 1 1 1 1 1 27 20 Bus Clarkson 53 5 1 1 1 1 1 28 19 Bucky Walters 51 5 1 2 1 1 29 29T Bob Johnson 48 5 1 1 1 1 1 30 33 Tommy John 44 4 1 1 1 1 31 25 Urban Shocker 43 4 1 2 1 32 45 Kevin Appier 40 5 1 2 1 1 33 26 Fred McGriff 37 4 1 2 1 34 27 Tommy Leach 35 4 1 1 1 1 35 51 Wally Schang 33 3 1 1 1 36 31 Mickey Welch 30 4 1 2 1 37 34 Burleigh Grimes 30 3 1 1 1 38 42 Addie Joss 28 2 1 1 39 36T Bob Elliott 26 3 1 1 1 40T 43T Luke Easter 24 2 1 1 40T 52T Lou Brock 24 2 1 1 42 35 Thurman Munson 23 2 1 1 43 43T Dolf Luque 21 2 1 1 44 28 Kirby Puckett 20 2 1 1 45 36T John Olerud 19 3 1 2 46T 46 Tommy Bond 19 2 1 1 46T 58 Dale Murphy 19 2 1 1 48 36T Vern Stephens 18 2 1 1 49T 57 Frank Chance 17 2 1 1 49T n/e Nomar Garciaparra 17 2 1 1 51 52T Dwight Gooden 15 2 1 1 52T 48T Babe Adams 15 1 1 52T 54 Dizzy Dean 15 1 1 54 60T Ed Cicotte 14 1 1 55T 60T Jack Quinn 13 1 1 55T -- Carlos Morán 13 1 1 57T 40 Orel Hershiser 12 1 1 57T 41 Tony Perez 12 1 1 57T 55T Lee Smith 12 1 1 57T 63 Ernie Lombardi 12 1 1 57T -- Jose Cruz 12 1 1 62T 48T Luis Gonzalez 11 1 1 62T 64 Willie Davis 11 1 1 64T 50 Tony Mullane 10 1 1 64T -- Bobby Veach 10 1 1 64T -- Tony Phillips 10 1 1 67T -- George Uhle 9 1 1 67T -- Ron Cey 9 1 1 69T 65T Frank Tanana 8 1 1 69T -- Perucho Cepeda 8 1 1 69T -- Tony Pena 8 1 1 72T 55T Jim Rice 7 1 1 72T 70T Dave Bancroft 7 1 1 72T 70T Elston Howard 7 1 1 72T 70T Carl Mays 7 1 1 72T n/e Carlos Delgado 7 1 1 72T -- Mike Scioscia 7 1 1 72T -- Cesar Cedeno 7 1 1 79T 65T Lefty Gomez 6 1 1 79T 75T Dave Parker 6 1 1 79T -- Joe Tinker 6 1 1 79T -- Gene Tenace 6 1 1 Dropped Out: Albert Belle (39), Johnny Pesky (47), Pie Traynor (59), Dave Concepcion (62), George Van Haltren (65T), Luis Aparicio (68T), Orlando Cepeda (68T), Art Fletcher (70T), Lance Parrish (70T), Norm Cash (75T), Al Rosen (77T), Sam Leever (77T), Roy White (77T), Wilbur Cooper (77T), LeRoy Matlock (77T). JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head
Posted: December 22, 2014 at 09:19 PM | 34 comment(s)
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1. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: December 22, 2014 at 11:13 PM (#4867255)It's also fairly clear that Johnson gets a Diamondbacks hat. Even though he threw more innings for Seattle, he had more WAR and much more WAA while pitching in the desert.
As much as I'd like him to be Montreal, Pedro very clearly goes in with the B :-)
With a diagonally dominant ballot matrix through the first six rows, this was a very high-consensus election. In fact, I have the average consensus score of +20.3 as the second highest ever, behind only 1934 at +21.9.
The highest possible consensus score would have been +31; the highest actual scores at +27 were Chris Cobb and Micheal J. Binkley's. 22 of the 34 voters were at +20 or higher, and many of the others were at +19 or +18.
Here are the bottom 5:
+16: Cespedes, Savant (James Newburg)
+15: John Murphy
+14: bjhanke
+10: karlmagnus
-6: JMD (daryn?) - got here by omitting Schilling and Mussina.
A number of long-time favorite candidates saw significant drops in support. (With the same number of voters, we can read ballot totals at face value, although in fairness, with a lot of votes going to new eligibles at the top, most down-ballot candidates lost some support.)
Bonds went from 154 to 109
Rizzuto went from 132 to 90
Duffy went from 112 to 61
Delgado went from 50 to 7
Belle went from 34 to 0
Bell increased his support from 139 to 188.
Other with at least some increase in support: Giles, McCormick, Appier.
Any candidate appearing on as many ballots as Mussina, Smoltz, Sheffield, and Sosa is basically a lock to be elected as soon as a space opens.
Fixed. Yet another example of the awesomeness that is Rob Wood :-)
Also want to give big thanks to rwagman, OCF, Patrick W, RonW and DL in MN for all of their help this year.
If I had voted early, I could imagine I was setting the trend: voting late, I'm more likely following it . . .
Unrelatedly, the work-around I have found for not getting a comment window after logging in is to click through to the beta version of the site and then, from there, click back to the classic version. So far that method has worked for me every time. I have no idea if that will work for other users, platforms, or browsers, but it worked for me.
(I thought the results thread might be a good place to put that note where many eyes were likely to see it.)
As the first voter in the first ballot in '1898' (actually 2003), and in every ballot since, I must pay homage to founder Joe Dimino, indispensable right-hand man John Murphy, and the even more undersung (unless someone can fix that) subsequent compilers.
At my best, I've been a good party guest who adds to the conversation and brings enough beer, wine and/or desserts to justify his return next year. Others, including those who keep track of all-time "HOM pts" that I update but need correcting from, also deserve huzzahs.
"Standing on the shoulders of giants" is fair, but Stephen Jay Gould complicated that expression...
There's also some graphs showing the % of total AB/IP by year, and comparisons of the 2 leagues. Check out the League IP comparison in 1968! (For some reason I hadn't included that graph before.)
It was a lot of work slogging through dozens of player profiles to try to come to a decision on whom to vote for, but it also was a lot of fun!
Dumb question - what is "dropped out" from the ballot - if you are a player that didn't get elected this year, don't you just re-join the list of candidates for next year?
If you guys could share any ideas on how to make the process easier for others like you to join (while still keeping the electorate standards as high as possible), that would be very helpful to us as a group.
---
* Among the top 35 voters all-time in total ballots submitted (over 75 ballots), 34 of these turned in a ballot in 2007 & 33 submitted in 2008. Among these same 35, only 17 submitted a ballot this year, down from 19 last year. Among all other voters (having submitted 1 to 75 ballots over the life of the HOM), 14 voted in 2007, 17 voted in 2008, 15 voted in 2014, and 17 voted this year.
As a group, the younger voters are treading water (i.e. we have added 12 new voters since 2009, enough to offset the lost votes from those who weren't here in 1925), but we have lost half of the long-time voters since we left the 2-3 week cycle. Staring at a fairly uneventful slate of ballots over the next 5 years (only in terms of uncertainty of results, not on the merit of the players), I fear this trend continuing or worsening.
In other words: it might be a good idea for someone to head up a PR Committee for the HOM. Spread the word, recruit at SABR meetings, etc.
Thank you, Dan, though I really didn't help start this at all. :-) Though I knew of the HoM when Joe originally brought it up circa 2002, I had nothing to do with the initial setup. In fact, I almost missed the first election because I found out that the HoM was up and running late in that process. Though I was a prolific post among the voters right from the start, I don't think it was until the 1920's before I started handling the day-t-day reins of this institution.
Having said that, my thanks to Joe for conceiving all of this, as well as for everybody handling the electoral responsibilities and plaque room now.
Agreed. I believe this will be the most fun era that we have worked on so far. Thanks for creating this, Dan!
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, and Happy Holidays to everyone!
I had them side-by-side on my last two ballots myself.
ronw or RickA likely will fix the occasional mistakes, and thanks for that
Cravath passed Mendez for 18th
Walters passed Roush for 21st
Williamson passed Cool Papa Bell for 46th and with Schang were the only top 50 members who got more pts than last year
not sure if Sosa made top 50 yet
TOP 50, ALL-TIME, unofficial (pts this year)
DUFFY...... 27890.5 (61)
VAN HALTREN 26923.5 (x)
Beckley.... 25856
Browning... 24502.5
WELCH...... 18811 (30)
REDDING.... 18614 (68)
Childs..... 18484
Griffith... 17924
Waddell.... 17596
Jennings... 16976
LEACH...... 16011 (35)
ChaJones....15875
Bresnahan.. 14965
Sisler..... 13892
Pike....... 13399
Sewell..... 12769
RYAN....... 12663.5 (x)
CRAVATH.....12569 (67)
Mendez..... 12555
Thompson... 12349
WALTERS.....12019 (51)
Roush...... 12005
Bennett.... 11503
Moore...... 10904
Rixey...... 10789
Caruthers.. 10704
Beckwith.... 9896
GRIMES.......9876 (30)
DOYLE....... 9816 (x)
BJOHNSON.....9777 (48)
HStovey......9576
Mackey.......8930
AOms.........8385
Start........8378.5
McGinnity....8232
McGraw.......8145
DPearce......8073
McVey........7985.5
FGrant.......7969.5
BMONROE......7947 (x)
Kiner........7746
Suttles......7690
NFox.........7587
Trouppe......7494
WFerrell.....7259
WILLIAMSON...7009 (56)
CPBell.......6968
SCHANG.......6954 (33)
WILLIS.......6748 (116)
Galvin.......6585
Others in active top 50 (X if no votes this year):
DDean 5992, Elliott 5288, Rizzuto 5279, Bridges 5225, BTaylor 5054, Joss 4898, TPerez 4385, Tiant 4303, FChance 3898, Traynor 3848X, CMays 3793, NCash 3786X, OCepeda 3465X, McCormick 3409, Cicotte 3343, SRice 3301X, BoBonds 3278, LBrock 3222, EHoward 2938, Singleton 2723X, Tiernan 2709X, BClarkson 2729, VStephens 2656, FJones 2636X, Klein 2601X, Puckett 2569, Veach 2398, Mullane 2397, Staub 2396X, GJBurns 2388X, Dunlap 2298X, Lombardi 2278, Concepcion 2149X, Bancroft 2122, Newcombe 2001
Thanks for the explanation! I was kind of surprised at the list of players who "dropped out" this year - I thought some of them would get at least one vote!
In fact, one of the things that makes this so challenging is, let's face it - the super-dominant players from the past have probably already been elected. So the players remaining on the ballot are all really good players, but at a slightly lower level, and therefore all pretty comparable to each other. Which makes it really difficult to decide how to rank them! I mean, would you rather have Tommy John or Tommy Bridges on the mound? Hilton Smith or Dick Redding? Kevin Appier or Jim McCormick? Are you kidding? As a manager, I would want a whole rotation full of these guys and watch the pennants roll in!
It is gone.
I don't have the heart to rebuild it and it was that spreadsheet that made this fun for me.
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?122540-1980s-LEAGUE-DRAFT-AND-ROSTERS-ETC
The 127 to 123 ERA+ difference grows when you factor in unearned runs. IIRC Moose gave up 0.25 UER per 9 innings, Schilling 0.19, so it's like a 130 ERA+ to 123 ERA+ difference with that factored in. Moose pitched more innings, but only about 9% more. Schilling finished with 54.1 WAA to Mussina's 48.6 which I think is a fair assessment of the value difference the better rate stats and fewer UERs provided over the extra regular season innings.
Moose was very good in the post season (3.42 ERA over 139 IP), but Schilling has a strong claim to best post season pitcher ever, 2.23 ERA over 133 IP, the gaudy 12-1 win/loss record that would have been even gaudier with a decent bullpens on his first two teams.
But beyond that Schilling probably has the most memorable moments of any post season starter of our generation. In 1993 with Phillies he left with the lead in 3 straight starts and bullpen blew all three leads (though Mitch Williams converted 2 into his wins), so Curt says "enough of that" and bulldogs a 9 inning shutout in his 4th start to keep the Phillies alive for game 6 and send the series back to Toronto. I wasn't a fan of either team but even I remember that series standing out as one of the most bizarre and exciting in memory.
In 2001 with DBacks Schilling threw 48 playoff innings, the record before until Bumgarner threw 52 last year. No knock on Bumgarner, but Curt did it coming off throwing 256 regular season innings, while Madison threw only 217 and also got a bonus wildcard start. Schillings three World Series starts vs. Yankees in 2001 all went 7 innings, giving up only 1, 1, and 2 runs, losing the 2nd on a Byun-Young Kim HR (sorry Tino, it was a gift), and turning over game 7 to Randy Johnson to close. Again, I was living in the Pacific Northwest, no dog in this hunt, but remember all of it.
In 2004 he was part of maybe the most famous championship series ever, can't exactly remember his role, I think he may have been injured. I was of course rooting hard for the less evil team.
I know this is Hall of Merit, not Fame, but I think it's impossible to forget those moments and it does bias us into seeing players in a more heroic light. Moose's post season moments were less memorable and that helps us forget how dominant he really was early in his career. The real answer of course is that Schilling deserves to go in first, on merit, but they are both clearly HOM worthy to me.
Mussina has the worst postseason luck of a guy I can remember.
In 1997, he dominated the ALCS, allowing one run and four hits in two starts, striking out 25. The Orioles, naturally, lost both games, which probably cost him ALCS MIVP.
In 2001, it was he who outpitched Barry Zito in Game 3 of the ALDS, winning 1-0 and keeping the Yanks from elimination. But all most people remember from that game is the Jeter Flip.
In 2003, he kept the wheels from falling off in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS, coming on in relief to pitch out of a 1st-and-3rd none-out jam Clemens put him in, and throwing three shutout innings with the Yankees down 4-0. Most fans remember Rivera's three innings and boone's home run, but neither happen without Mussina's heroics. He was lined up to start Game 7 of the Series after beating Josh Beckett in Game 3, but the Yankees lost the next three games.
He wasn't a great postseason performer, but his best moments rarely occurred in wins, and when they did, they were overshadowed.
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