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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Thursday, January 09, 20202020 Hall of Merit Election Results: Jeter, Tiant, Jones and HeltonCongratulations to our new members of the Hall of Merit - Derek Jeter, Luis Tiant, Andruw Jones and Todd Helton. RK LY Player PTS Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 n/e Derek Jeter 658 30 22 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 4 Luis Tiant 370 25 2 4 3 1 2 2 1 3 2 1 3 1 3 7 Andruw Jones 348 21 2 4 4 2 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 4 5 Todd Helton 330 22 2 1 3 3 1 3 1 1 2 2 2 1 5 6 Kenny Lofton 323 20 1 5 2 1 4 2 1 1 1 1 1 6 10 Johan Santana 246 19 2 1 1 2 1 4 2 1 2 2 1 7 12 Sammy Sosa 231 18 1 1 2 1 3 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 8 9 Jeff Kent 231 14 3 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 9 13 Lance Berkman 216 13 1 4 1 2 3 1 1 10 n/e Bobby Abreu 200 15 1 1 1 2 1 3 2 1 1 2 11 17 Buddy Bell 189 12 1 1 3 1 1 2 1 1 1 12 11 Wally Schang 176 12 2 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 13 20 Bobby Bonds 155 13 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 14 21 Sal Bando 146 10 1 2 1 3 1 1 1 15 18 Vic Willis 136 11 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 2 16 16 Bob Johnson 121 11 2 3 2 1 2 1 17 8 Ben Taylor 115 10 1 2 1 1 1 3 1 18 24 Andy Pettitte 109 9 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 19 23 Tommy John 98 8 1 1 1 1 1 3 20 22 Don Newcombe 95 8 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 21 19 Jorge Posada 87 6 1 2 1 1 1 22 30T Urban Shocker 85 7 1 1 1 2 2 23 15 Phil Rizzuto 84 7 1 1 1 1 2 1 24 14 Thurman Munson 81 6 1 2 1 2 25 n/e Jason Giambi 73 6 1 1 3 1 26 26 Tommy Bridges 64 5 1 1 1 1 1 27 58T Hugh Duffy 64 3 1 2 28 33 Kevin Appier 61 5 1 1 2 1 29 30T Bert Campaneris 57 7 1 2 1 2 1 30 28 Tommy Leach 56 5 1 1 1 1 1 31 46T Roy Oswalt 56 4 1 1 1 1 32 64T Dizzy Dean 54 3 1 1 1 33 42T Tommy Bond 48 3 2 1 34 38 Vern Stephens 36 3 1 1 1 35 25 Art Fletcher 35 3 1 1 1 36T 27 Gavvy Cravath 34 3 1 1 1 36T 40 Fred McGriff 34 3 1 1 1 38 36 Eddie Cicotte 34 2 1 1 39T 32 Joe Tinker 33 3 1 1 1 39T 29 Bucky Walters 33 3 1 1 1 41 35 Bus Clarkson 31 2 1 1 42 52T Hilton Smith 30 2 1 1 43 76T Brian Giles 29 3 1 1 1 44T 44 Luke Easter 29 2 1 1 44T 42T Addie Joss 29 2 1 1 46 50T Ernie Lombardi 28 2 1 1 47 39 Mickey Welch 26 3 1 2 48 34 Bobby Veach 26 2 1 1 49 49 Babe Adams 24 2 0 1 1 50 76T Luis Aparicio 23 2 1 1 51 41 Jim McCormick 23 1 1 52 -- Tony Perez 22 2 1 1 53T 46T Dwight Gooden 22 1 1 53T 37 Dolf Luque 22 1 1 55 -- Lou Brock 21 1 1 56 76T Dale Murphy 17 2 1 1 57T -- Charlie Buffinton 16 1 1 57T -- Elston Howard 16 1 1 59 52T Nomar Garciaparra 15 1 1 60T 56T Mickey Lolich 14 1 1 60T 58T Tony Mullane 14 1 1 62 48 Bob Elliott 13 1 1 63T 68T Kiki Cuyler 12 1 1 63T 73T Luis Gonzalez 12 1 1 63T -- Al Rosen 12 1 1 63T 56T Lee Smith 12 1 1 67T -- Darryl Strawberry 11 1 1 67T -- Javier Vazquez 11 1 1 67T 58T Billy Wagner 11 1 1 70T 71T Dave Bancroft 10 1 1 70T 58T Frank Chance 10 1 1 70T -- Lance Parrish 10 1 1 70T -- Bernie Williams 10 1 1 74T 45 Johnny Evers 9 1 1 74T 58T Chuck Finley 9 1 1 74T -- Ron Guidry 9 1 1 74T 64T Harry Hooper 9 1 1 74T 71T Hurley McNair 9 1 1 74T -- Jim Whitney 9 1 1 80T n/e Cliff Lee 8 1 1 80T -- Jim Sundberg 8 1 1 80T 50T Frank Tanana 8 1 1 83T 52T Tommy Henrich 7 1 1 83T -- Kirby Puckett 7 1 1 83T -- Ned Williamson 7 1 1 86T 68T Orel Hershiser 6 1 1 86T 55 John Olerud 6 1 1 86T 80 Robin Ventura 6 1 1 Dropped Out: Sam Bankhead(76T), Fred Dunlap(64T), Silvio Garcia(73T), Heavy Johnson(68T), Carlos Moran(58T), Tony Phillips(73T), Jack Quinn(64T). Ballots Cast: 30 |
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1. DL from MN Posted: January 09, 2020 at 10:18 PM (#5914396)With Tim Hudson and Mark Buehrle as the strongest newbies, we have a year to do our earnest homework on the backlog.
And special thanks to the HOM admin team including DL and the ballot counters.
P.S. If we are still doing plaques, someone should probably volunteer to write the plaques for the 2020 HOM electees.
Abreu looks like he'll join the frontlog. Giambi's showing isn't too bad, but he was destined to be a polarizing candidate. Glad that Cliff Lee got a vote - keeps him from joining the not votes team.
RK LY Player PTS Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
1 n/e Derek Jeter 658 30 22 2 1 1 1 1 1 1
2 4 Luis Tiant 370 25 2 4 3 1 2 2 1 3 2 1 3 1
3 7 Andruw Jones 348 21 2 4 4 2 1 1 2 1 2 1 1
4 5 Todd Helton 330 22 2 1 3 3 1 3 1 1 2 2 2 1
5 6 Kenny Lofton 323 20 1 5 2 1 4 2 1 1 1 1 1
6 10 Johan Santana 246 19 2 1 1 2 1 4 2 1 2 2 1
7 12 Sammy Sosa 231 18 1 1 2 1 3 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1
8 9 Jeff Kent 231 14 3 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 1
9 13 Lance Berkman 216 13 1 4 1 2 3 1 1
10 n/e Bobby Abreu 200 15 1 1 1 2 1 3 2 1 1 2
11 17 Buddy Bell 189 12 1 1 3 1 1 2 1 1 1
12 11 Wally Schang 176 12 2 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 1
13 20 Bobby Bonds 155 13 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 1
14 21 Sal Bando 146 10 1 2 1 3 1 1 1
15 18 Vic Willis 136 11 1 1 1 1 1 3 1 2
16 16 Bob Johnson 121 11 2 3 2 1 2 1
17 8 Ben Taylor 115 10 1 2 1 1 1 3 1
18 24 Andy Pettitte 109 9 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2
19 23 Tommy John 98 8 1 1 1 1 1 3
20 22 Don Newcombe 95 8 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
21 19 Jorge Posada 87 6 1 2 1 1 1
22 30T Urban Shocker 85 7 1 1 1 2 2
23 15 Phil Rizzuto 84 7 1 1 1 1 2 1
24 14 Thurman Munson 81 6 1 2 1 2
25 n/e Jason Giambi 73 6 1 1 3 1
26 26 Tommy Bridges 64 5 1 1 1 1 1
27 58T Hugh Duffy 64 3 1 2
28 33 Kevin Appier 61 5 1 1 2 1
29 30T Bert Campaneris 57 7 1 2 1 2 1
30 28 Tommy Leach 56 5 1 1 1 1 1
31 46T Roy Oswalt 56 4 1 1 1 1
32 64T Dizzy Dean 54 3 1 1 1
33 42T Tommy Bond 48 3 2 1
34 38 Vern Stephens 36 3 1 1 1
35 25 Art Fletcher 35 3 1 1 1
36T 27 Gavvy Cravath 34 3 1 1 1
36T 40 Fred McGriff 34 3 1 1 1
38 36 Eddie Cicotte 34 2 1 1
39T 32 Joe Tinker 33 3 1 1 1
39T 29 Bucky Walters 33 3 1 1 1
41 35 Bus Clarkson 31 2 1 1
42 52T Hilton Smith 30 2 1 1
43 76T Brian Giles 29 3 1 1 1
44T 44 Luke Easter 29 2 1 1
44T 42T Addie Joss 29 2 1 1
46 50T Ernie Lombardi 28 2 1 1
47 39 Mickey Welch 26 3 1 2
48 34 Bobby Veach 26 2 1 1
49 49 Babe Adams 24 2 0 1 1
50 76T Luis Aparicio 23 2 1 1
51 41 Jim McCormick 23 1 1
52 -- Tony Perez 22 2 1 1
53T 46T Dwight Gooden 22 1 1
53T 37 Dolf Luque 22 1 1
55 -- Lou Brock 21 1 1
56 76T Dale Murphy 17 2 1 1
57T -- Charlie Buffinton 16 1 1
57T -- Elston Howard 16 1 1
59 52T Nomar Garciaparra 15 1 1
60T 56T Mickey Lolich 14 1 1
60T 58T Tony Mullane 14 1 1
62 48 Bob Elliott 13 1 1
63T 68T Kiki Cuyler 12 1 1
63T 73T Luis Gonzalez 12 1 1
63T -- Al Rosen 12 1 1
63T 56T Lee Smith 12 1 1
67T -- Darryl Strawberry 11 1 1
67T -- Javier Vazquez 11 1 1
67T 58T Billy Wagner 11 1 1
70T 71T Dave Bancroft 10 1 1
70T 58T Frank Chance 10 1 1
70T -- Lance Parrish 10 1 1
70T -- Bernie Williams 10 1 1
74T 45 Johnny Evers 9 1 1
74T 58T Chuck Finley 9 1 1
74T -- Ron Guidry 9 1 1
74T 64T Harry Hooper 9 1 1
74T 71T Hurley McNair 9 1 1
74T -- Jim Whitney 9 1 1
80T n/e Cliff Lee 8 1 1
80T -- Jim Sundberg 8 1 1
80T 50T Frank Tanana 8 1 1
83T 52T Tommy Henrich 7 1 1
83T -- Kirby Puckett 7 1 1
83T -- Ned Williamson 7 1 1
86T 68T Orel Hershiser 6 1 1
86T 55 John Olerud 6 1 1
86T 80 Robin Ventura 6 1 1
Thanks to everyone who was able to vote this time around! It really made a difference in an exciting horse race.
One new player who was an obvious pick, one player I have been supporting for years and two guys I would probably never vote for. I think Andruw Jones might be the worst player we've ever elected. I was kind of shocked when he slid in behind Nellie Fox and Willard Brown on my elected player rankings.
A) That says amazingly good things about the HOM
B) We've got some real clinkers: Eppa Rixey, Earl Averill, Sam Thompson, Dickey Pearce, Ezra Sutton, Stan Hack, Lip Pike, Al Spalding. One might quibble with a name on this list, but it's hard to quibble with all of them.
Now if you had said Edd Roush, then I would agree with you. The only guys I would outright kick out of the HoM are Roush, Willard Brown, and Nellie Fox.
My list of HoM who are unlikely to ever make PHoM (even in drought of several elections) in reverse order
Rollie Fingers
Lip Pike
Andruw Jones
Pete Browning
Willard Brown
George Sisler (career just too short, I understand why peak voters like him)
Nellie Fox
Joe McGinnity
Bob Lemon
Edd Roush
Bill Terry
Ralph Kiner
Todd Helton
I got a text from Joe D this morning
"My vote would not have mattered whew. I would never have voted Lofton over Helton."
He followed up with a text saying he has cooled on both Lofton and Andruw, due to his perception that the fielding numbers are "shaky"
Sorry for being completely AWOL this year everyone. Really appreciate you guys keeping the machine going, and 30 ballots is a great number!
Also, I think the case for a bunch of the players mentioned above has been a little forgotten. Sutton was a great candidate, for example, but the case is not obvious.
Sutton was a great candidate when we only had Win Shares. Other, more modern, systems have a really different opinion.
---
My bottom ten HoMers
Nellie Fox
Edd Roush
Willard Brown
Joe McGinnity
Pete Browning
Dave Stieb
Bob Lemon
Clark Griffith
Will Clark
Lip Pike
Technically my system spits out Bob Caruthers and Dave Winfield with that bunch, but I don't consider either of those two mistakes.
(The 1859 all-professional cricket tour to Canada and the United States was the first international cricket tour, before any to Australia -- the Duke of Dorset's 1789 tour to France was abortive -- the Duke, who was Ambassador to France, met his team at Dover before they embarked, having fled the Revolution. Harry Wright was the biggest name among the 1859 team's opponents, and was regarded as a big star. George Wright played in those matches, but didn't do much. There was another tour in 1872, by an all-amateur team including the young W.G. Grace, which noted sadly that U.S. cricket had regressed -- Harry and George both played against that one.)
As far as the HOM floor, of course every voter has thoughts on how they value players which will differ from other voters. Rollie Fingers, Bob Caruthers, Ray Brown, Willard Brown, Nellie Fox are the only ones I would be comfortable saying are outright mistakes, though I personally think several others (maybe a dozen more) are as well. Even in that list Caruthers had/has very strident defenders.
The HOM has done a very good job of avoiding *clear* mistakes.
Except for Fingers. But I might be in the minority on that.
I'm not making him out to be the equivalent of Gossage or Rivera, but I do have him just above my in-out line.
Yeah, if Ringers doesn't belong, than I'm not sure any fireman/closer belongs then.
Yes Rollie Ringers and Fingo Starr. ;-)
I have never suggested we should throw out players or that someone doesn't belong. We do a pretty good job selecting players. Hell, I think nearly everyone on the list is in the Hall of Fame. Someone has to be the worst though.
Batting order:
Lou Brock - LF
Frank Chance - 1B
Nomar Garciaparra - SS
Darryl Strawberry - RF
Kirby Puckett - CF
Al Rosen - 3B
Elston Howard - C
Johnny Evers - 2B
Pitcher's spot
Bench:
Jim Sundberg - C
Dave Bancroft - SS
Ned Williamson - 3B
Bob Elliott - corner IF
Bernie Williams, Harry Hooper, Hurley McNair - reserve OF
Rotation:
Dwight Gooden
Dolf Luque
Mickey Lolich
Jim McCormick
Orel Hershisher
Bullpen:
Frank Tanana
Ron Guidry
Lee Smith
Billy Wagner
Utility pitcher/fun clubhouse guy:
Tony Mullane
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