BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: Most Meritorious Player: 1964 Results

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Friday, September 09, 2011

Most Meritorious Player: 1964 Results

Congratulations to Willie Mays, who was 1964’s Most Meritorious Player by a substantial majority.

                  1     2     3     4     5     6     7     8     9     10     Pts
Willie Mays       11    2                                                      193
Dick Allen         2    6     3     2                                          177
Ron Santo               3     5     3     1                                    154
Dean Chance             1     5     2     1     2     2                        152
Brooks Robinson                     3     4     2           2     1      1     129
Frank Robinson                            2     4     2     4     1            119
Mickey Mantle                       2     2     1           1     2      1      84
Hank Aaron                                1     1     2     1     3      1      74
Elston Howard                                         3     2     2      1      63
Don Drysdale            1                 1     2     1                         54
Jim Fregosi                               1     1     2           1      1      53
Boog Powell                                                 2            3      34
Sandy Koufax                        1                             1      2      30
Denis Menke                                                       2             14
Tony Oliva                                                               2      12
Ron Hansen                                            1                          9
Bob Allison                                                1                     8
Dick Radatz                                                              1       6

Number of ballots cast: 13

Mays’ victory was never in doubt. The real excitement in this election came in the battle for second and third place, as Dick Allen overcame early support for Ron Santo to take second place. Santo even came close to falling into fourth place as Dean Chance, like Allen, steadily gathered support as more ballots were cast.

Mr Dashwood Posted: September 09, 2011 at 12:16 AM | 11 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: September 09, 2011 at 11:47 AM (#3920075)

Whoops, I didn't get to vote. Very surprised to see Mays so far ahead of Santo. They were both terrific fielders--is an 8-point OPS+ gap bigger than the CF-3B difference? I guess it's close, especially with Mays's baserunning...

2. DL from MN Posted: September 09, 2011 at 01:27 PM (#3920118)

I had Santo clearly ahead of Allen and just behind Mays on my list. Still, beats the MVP voting results of that year.

3. lieiam Posted: September 09, 2011 at 03:13 PM (#3920206)

One reason Santo barely held off Chance (by the way, I had Chance 3rd and Santo 4th) is that Santo didn't make the top 10 on a ballot.

Dick Allen had the highest numbers in Win Shares and WSAB and none of the various WAR and WARP systems that I use. Just thought that was interesting.

And, on yet another unrelated comment, Roberto Clemente is the highest player on my list (15th) who didn't receive a single top 10 vote.

4. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 09, 2011 at 06:03 PM (#3920363)

And, on yet another unrelated comment, Roberto Clemente is the highest player on my list (15th) who didn't receive a single top 10 vote.

Same here, except I had him at #11.

5. sunnyday2 Posted: September 12, 2011 at 05:03 PM (#3922682)

Re. the 'real" MVPs--Brooksie wasn't that bad, only Chance is ahead of him here. There wasn't as strong of an anti-pitcher bias for MVP in those days as there seems to be today.

Boyer, OTOH, was a pretty bad choice considering there were so many great ones available. I tend to use my recollections of how players were thought of at the time in leavening my ballot a little bit, and even I only had Boyer #12. The BBWAA not only had Boyer on top, it had Callison and Bill White next, then Frank Robby and Torre and only then Mays, Allen and Santo. Brain death had already set in. If Allen or Santo had won the MVP award, it could have altered HoF voting later on--more likely in Santo's case than Allen's, I suppose. But plausible in both cases. But considering they were #8 and #9, it's a pipe dream. Wasn't gonna happen.

Still, I don't think baseball fans regarded this as a particularly terrible choice at the time. Skepticism of BBWAA selections had not really set in which means that the implied eval of Santo and Allen (they're no Brooksie and Boyer) was also accepted fairly readily.

It didn't necessarily go the other way, however, as Boyer, Callison, Ellie Howard, Bill White, Oliva and Torre, all of whom finished ahead of Chance, Santo and Allen, didn't gain much traction for the HoF as a result. If you wanted to make the HoF, it was better to be in the 2nd 10.

I suppose the anti-Moneyballers would look at this list and note Denis Menke and Ron Hansen and roll their eyes. Hansen in particular was a hell of a player for a few years. Ditto Fregosi, of course, though he's not nearly as far below the radar.

6. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: September 12, 2011 at 05:23 PM (#3922709)

One reason Santo barely held off Chance (by the way, I had Chance 3rd and Santo 4th) is that Santo didn't make the top 10 on a ballot.

That was me I had Santo at 11
I basically work off of BBREF WAR except I move the baseline up from replacement level, that moved a couple of guys (barely) ahead of him from where WAR has him (7th)...

7. DanG Posted: September 12, 2011 at 06:50 PM (#3922822)

I believe that 1964 was a watershed year in the evolution of the third base position. With the RBI crowns of Robinson and Boyer, the ROY for Allen, ROY runnerup Hart, and the emergence of Santo as an elite player, the image of the position was changing rapidly.

Before 1964, there were usually a handful of 3B who could really hit; after that, the glovemen became increasingly rare at 3B. Everyone wanted a big bat at the hot corner.

OPS+ 1954-63, 550 G at 3B

Rk            Player OPS+   PA   Age  HR RBI
1      Eddie Mathews  153 6526 22-31 350 973
2          Ken Boyer  120 5738 24-32 218 807
3         Eddie Yost  111 4570 27-35  84 356
4          Ron Santo  106 2403 20-23  74 309
5       Willie Jones  100 3469 28-35  85 405
6           Don Hoak   98 4939 26-35  89 498
7    Brooks Robinson   98 3765 18-26  65 374
8        Gene Freese   97 3185 21-29 102 370
9         Andy Carey   96 3081 22-30  60 341
10     Frank Malzone   95 4717 25-33 115 626
11     Jim Davenport   94 2962 24-29  54 276
12       Clete Boyer   82 2587 18-26  56 236
13    Bubba Phillips   78 3465 27-35  59 350 

OPS+ 1964-73, 600 G at 3B

Rk              Player OPS+   PA   Age  HR RBI
1           Dick Allen  165 5744 22-31 287 887
2            Ron Santo  136 6576 24-33 263 981
3           Tony Perez  132 5219 22-31 210 814
4            Sal Bando  131 4185 22-29 128 531
5        Richie Hebner  131 2510 20-25  80 306
6         Jim Ray Hart  128 4189 22-31 170 576
7          Bill Melton  119 2834 22-27 118 402
8           Bob Bailey  113 5109 21-30 140 576
9      Brooks Robinson  113 6572 27-36 186 856
10       Graig Nettles  107 2935 22-28 105 333
11        Ken McMullen  106 4982 22-31 136 510
12          Doug Rader  104 3624 22-28  99 474
13             Joe Foy  104 2937 23-28  58 291
14          Ed Charles  102 2626 31-36  54 268
15         Paul Schaal  100 3923 21-30  54 299
16           Max Alvis   94 3271 26-32  89 303
17         Clete Boyer   90 3778 27-34 106 418
18      Bob Aspromonte   87 3570 26-33  40 341
19            Don Wert   86 4063 25-32  70 341
20   Aurelio Rodriguez   82 3521 19-25  65 309 

8. sunnyday2 Posted: September 14, 2011 at 04:24 PM (#3924741)

But unless your name is Brooksie, ya still gotta hit like a corner OF to get HoF consideration. That didn't change.

9. DL from MN Posted: September 21, 2011 at 03:01 PM (#3931864)

hot topics

10. Alex King Posted: October 14, 2011 at 07:39 AM (#3963107)

Hello MMPers! I'm really sorry about my sudden disappearance for the past two months--my life got really hectic all of a sudden, and I just didn't have any time to participate in the MMP project. I've calculated MMP shares for 1964 and 1965, and read through the 1966 discussion (I'm hoping to have a prelim ballot out soon). Here are 1964's MMP shares:

Name PTS Max possible MMP Shares
Willie Mays 210 210 1.00
Sandy Koufax 194 210 0.92
Juan Marichal 174 210 0.83
Ron Santo 140 210 0.67
Zoilo Versalles 137 210 0.65
Billy Williams 122 210 0.58
Hank Aaron 106 210 0.50
Jimmy Winn 88 210 0.42
Tony Oliva 70 210 0.33
Sam McDowell 57 210 0.27
Dick Allen 40 210 0.19
Jim Maloney 39 210 0.19
Jim Bunning 37 210 0.18
Willie McCovey 17 210 0.08
Don Buford 13 210 0.06
Bob Gibson 8 210 0.04
Stu Miller 6 210 0.03
Carl Yastrzemski 6 210 0.03
Mel Stottlemyre 6 210 0.03

11. DL from MN Posted: October 14, 2011 at 01:51 PM (#3963231)

BTW - I'm not going to have time to create plaques.

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Most Meritorious Player: 1964 Results

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