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Hall of Merit— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best
Sunday, May 06, 2007
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Most Meritorious Player: 1899 Discussion (7 - 3:39am, May 16)Last: bjhanke2023 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (160 - 1:54pm, May 11)Last:  DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1898 Results (4 - 3:22pm, May 06)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1898 Ballot (8 - 10:07am, May 05)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1898 Discussion (7 - 1:08am, May 02)Last: Harmon RipkowskiMost Meritorious Player: 1897 Results (2 - 4:29pm, Apr 06)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1897 Ballot (11 - 4:15pm, Apr 06)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1896 Ballot (10 - 8:29pm, Apr 05)Last: Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handleHeavy Johnson (74 - 1:38pm, Mar 22)Last: Dr. ChaleekoMost Meritorious Player: 1897 Discussion (6 - 5:34pm, Mar 17)Last: HAWKMost Meritorious Player: 1896 Results (2 - 1:51pm, Mar 03)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1896 Discussion (11 - 5:37pm, Mar 01)Last: DL from MNHall of Merit Book Club (4 - 1:57pm, Feb 14)Last: Kiko SakataHurley McNair and Bill Pettus (4 - 11:44am, Feb 11)Last: Chris CobbMost Meritorious Player: 1895 Results (3 - 4:29pm, Feb 02)Last: DL from MN
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 06, 2007 at 06:04 PM (#2355954)There's a whole generation of people, probably me included, who remember Fisk more for his getting in the face of Deion Sanders than for his WS homer. Not in the sense of not knowing about it (not seeing it ad naseum throughout the years), but in the sense that his career was so long that a person who started following baseball in the 1980s had a different sense of Fisk than someone from a previous generation of fans.
I read his old books eons ago. I remember him writing about Fisk's 1985 season. How a guy, nicknamed Pudge as a young'un had remade his body by working out, and at age 37 had maybe the best year of his career, coming in second in homers with 37. All while playing the most physichally demanding position in baseball. In light of recent baseball news, I've always wondered if he was an early 'roider.
Great player for an absurdly long time. Many people have played in four decades. How many, while in their fourth decade, got selected to an ASG? Fisk did in '91. He was older than several players in the old timers game that year.
Between Baines & Thomas, he was briefly the Sox all-time home run leader.
Ted Williams
Early Wynn
Carlton Fisk
Nobody does an analysis of character like Boswell; his 5+ year running fued with the Orioles owner Peter Angelos has spawned some of the best reading since the Steinbrenner-Martin brouhahas of the 1980's.
Wrong 4th decade. He's not talking about 40 year olds, but players in their 4th calendar decade, as in 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's.
Nevermind.
One of these players is not like the other.
Why the animosity towards Bench?
No drips, no runs, no errors.
Hoiles was a better hitter than I remember. If you triple the length of his career and rearrange his PA's to improve his in season durability, he'd be a great HOM candidate.
(Of course, that's a big adjustment :-))
1. Berra 303
2. Bench 286
3. Carter 277
4. Fisk 250--all she wrote
5. Hartnett 245
6. Campy 245
7. Dickey 244
8. Cochrane 232
9. Ewing 196
10. Munson 181
Munson was better than Fisk during the period Thurman was active, but it's a rout overall. An obvious HoMer. 250 isn't inner circle at other positions but at catcher, well, look he's ahead of.
Depends largely on your definition of better.
Munson played more while Fisk had better rates.
(Following is reprinted from the Munson thread.)
Fisk was 6 months younger than Munson.
If we also end Fisk's career after 1979,
then we get the following snapshots.
Win Shares: Munson 206 - Fisk 164
Games: Munson 1423 - Fisk 947
WS/162G: Munson 23.5 - Fisk 28.1
FWS: Munson 62.3 - Fisk 45.2
FWS/162G: Munson 7.1 - Fisk 7.7
Munson's edge lay in his ability to stay on the field, to avoid the injuries that plagued the younger Fisk. That edge also might have shortened his career, if the plane crash hadn't ended it prematurely.
WARP comes to the same conclusion, though it rates Fisk and Munson as even defensively (107) through 1979. While Munson hit for the higher average, Fisk was the better hitter, due to his extra walks and his slugging.
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