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Hall of Merit— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best
Sunday, March 20, 2005
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: March 20, 2005 at 11:24 PM (#1208744)I doubt the average fan knows anything about him, but the serious fan can't come away with great respect for his achievements (though his offensive numbers overrate him somewhat with certain groups).
If he had been been eligible in '47, I would have had him at #3 (behind Grove and Hartnett). That's not an insult to him in anyway.
In other word, I'm saying he has enough offense to make the HoM had he been a corner outfielder. I see him as being well ahead of Frisch.
Among second basemen in history, we have a top group of Collins, Hornsby, Lajoie, and presumably Morgan. We have the Frisch/Sandberg/Alomar cluster (which has several other members). I have Gehringer as maybe not quite Lajoie but well above that other cluster.
I once heard as a family story that a relative-by-mariage of mine (the wife of an uncle) was somehow related to Gehringer. Having never tracked that down, I can't vouch for it.
WARP-3 126.6 Gehringer
BP sees Alomar as the better hitter, Gehringer as the better fielder, though the differences are not large. Gehringer stands out much more in his own time (WARP-1, probably Win Shares) due to the overall weaker level of competition pre-integration. (Not to mention Alomar playing in the DH league which splits the offensive Win Shares 9 ways instead of 8.)
Gehringer has a better (more well-defined peak) from 1933-37, corresponding to the Tiger's run as a contender (Champ 1935; WS 34, 40, 2nd place 36, 37). Alomar had great seasons interspersed with mediocre ones, and played on a number of playoff teams (Champ 1992, 93; CS 91, 96, 97; DS 99, 2001) corresponding with his great seasons in 93, 96, 99, 2001.
They both seem like easy choices to me.
I don't think he was ever mediocre until 2002 when his back and legs began to fail him. I think I read where he claims his eyesight has begun to fail him to the degree he can no longer see good enough to hit ML pitching.
Too bad.
I thought Roberto certainly a better all around 2B-man than anyone else during the 1990's from a pure talent perspective although Biggio certainly rivals Roberto as a hitter.
For peak, I see Charlie as maybe the #6 to 8 2B. But for career, a clear #5.
Eddie Collins
Rogers Hornsby
Joe Morgan
Nap Lajoie
Charlie Gehringer
Roberto Alomar
Jackie Robinson
Ryne Sandberg
Craig Biggio
Bobby Grich
Ross Barnes
Rod Carew
In retrospect, mediocre was a little harsh when characterizing borderline all-star seasons. OTOH, they weren't close to his best, which were truly great.
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