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Hall of Merit— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best
Sunday, March 11, 2007
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: March 11, 2007 at 04:52 PM (#2310249)I agree with you about Sutter, but Gossage?
aproximtlly 800 inninings
But Gossage had a better moustache.
Ogilvie, about whom Dan wrote some verse.
Cooper, who seemed to get on base every other at bat.
Yount, who would golf that sinker into right-centerfield.
Gorman, who would crouch down at the plate and punch at the ball instead of his usual hammer toss swing.
Great pitcher. But the Crew whacked him around pretty good.
That's nothing -- I forgot for a minute that Kansas City was still in the majors...
t
I think it's tough to give that honor to anyone besides Dave Stieb. Stieb has a pretty strong case for deserving four consecutive Cy Youngs from 1982 to 1985.
The difference between Gossage and Quiz isn't so much the innings, but the dominance. In Gossage's prime of 1000 innings, he had an ERA+ of 185. Quiz' career lasted that long, and he had an ERA+ of 146. The ERA+, if anything, understates the difference due to Quiz' underperformance with regard to inherited runners.
Quiz was every bit as good as Sutter, though.
I played a simulation some time ago where one owner had Quiz in some of his prime years. Great ERA, but in that sim, I saw it coming how his high H/9 would allow lots of inherited runners to score; which they did.
:-!
I can picture Stormin' Gorman in both atbats, and I can't picture Chet Lemon anyhow.
They'd see the hope of a double play and NOT see how dangerous it is to let someone hit the ball, basically.
I hope no one ignores inherited-runner data in evaluating Quiz vs Rollie "strand-em" Fingers!
I looked up his record against the Brewers, and it was interesting to say the least. From 1979 to 1981, his first three years in the league, Quiz gave up 16 runs in 13.7 innings against the Brewers, a cool 10.54 ERA. Against the rest of the league it was 2.24. Small sample size, but pretty remarkable. After '81, things became more normal.- his ERA against the Brew Crew was 3.65 in '82, and 3.07 from '83 to '86.
Forty-five degrees of arm angle?
Right you are.
In 262 PAs (45 games), the Brew Crew smacked around Quiz to a line of 311/341/484/825. Of the 13 AL teams he faced, 5.31 ERA against Milwaukee is the highest.
- Samuel Clemens' Notebook, 1885
Sutter was leveraged way more, making his innings much more valuable. And Quisenberry wasn't just bad with inherited runners, he was awful. The second worst of 60-some closers I've looked it.
That's enough to drop Quis to about 15th (from memory) and leave Sutter 5th among the closers I've worked through. I still think Sutter should be out, his increased leverage is the only thing that gives him the bump to be close, IMO. Quis wasn't too underleveraged (he was underleveraged a little), it was more like Sutter was overleveraged.
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