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Hall of Merit— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best
Tuesday, April 05, 2005
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 05, 2005 at 06:11 PM (#1233648)Joe Sewell, who is Bartell's 9th-best comp, is #10 on my ballot. Bancroft would be about #30 (the difference, IMO, is not that great, but my ballot is tightly bunched), and Bartell would rank a spot above or a spot below Bancroft.
Looking at contemporaries, Appling, Vaughn, and Cronin were clearly better. Bartell was never more than 4th best in MLB, save for his age 28-29 peak.
Bartell served in WWII but it was at the tail end of his career so I'm not sure how much credit he deserves. I like the Bancroft comparison but WARP has Bartell as the better fielder _and_ the better hitter. I have Bancroft at #45 and Sewell at #15. I think you have to slot Bartell somewhere in between but I think I'm the only voter mentioning Bartell.
Bartell also batted .294/.360/.426 in 68 World Series AB. He was arguably the MVP of the 1936 WS except that the Giants lost it to the Yankees.
That's really not that impressive considering the context.
Perhaps a bit better than that. Its a bit difficult to nail down the context for these games. In 1936-7, the NL was considerably lower scoring than the AL. What would be the context for the playoffs?
His 1936 WS was indeed a great one. Powell perhaps hit a bit better, but he didn't play SS.
No, it wasn't. The NL and the AL were very, very different run environments in the 1930s, moreso that at any other point in history, even after the imposition of the DH in the AL.
The highest league BA in the NL from 1931-39 was .278; highest OBP .335; highest SLG .396. And in 1940, Bartell's year in the AL in which he went to the WS, the league was at .271/.342/.407.
As I speculated
here and here, the huge difference in run production between the leagues was very likely due to different ball specs for each league. I suppose the home team supplied the ball in WS games, so that would mean that WS games in NL parks were in the low-scoring environment, and WS games in AL parks were in the high-scoring environment.
Why Rowdy Richard and not Beauty Bancroft?
Why Rowdy Richard and not Scooter Rizzuto?
Why Rowdy Richard and not Joe Sewell?
Why Rowdy Richard and not Germany Long?
Why Rowdy Richard and not Junior Stephens?
Why Rowdy Richard and not Johnny Pesky?
Why Rowdy Richard and not Cecil Travis?
Why Rowdy Richard and not Bus Clarkson?
Why Rowdy Richard and not Jim Fregosi? (Is he up next year? or this?)
Why Rowdy Richard and not Eddie Joost, Ed McKean, Joe Tinker, Maury Wills, Dick Lundy, Rabbit Maranville, Hank Thompson, Tom Daly, Artie Fletcher, Silvio Garcia, and Donie Bush?
I don't oppose Bartell. I just think we'd have to answer to these other guys if we selected him.
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28. Dave Bancroft 269/31-27-26/115/22.8
37. Dick Bartell 252/28-24-21/106/20.2
Tinker and Long among those in between.
OPS+
Bancroft 98/122-22-19-10-9-9-4-and 4 additional years >100 games but <100 OPS+/about 8000 PA
Bartell 96/124-9-2-1-and 7 years >100 games but <100 OPS+/about 8400 PA
Raw Fielding
Bancroft 1873 G at SS/.944/4623 PO/6561 A/660 E/1017 DP
Bartell 1679 G at SS/.953/3872 PO/5590 A/471 E/1072 DP
Bartell's rookie year was 1928, Bancroft's final year was 1930. I would guess Bancroft's .944 was as good or better vs. league and he certainly fielded a lot more chances. Whether that was typical of the league (and I'm sure it was) it still has a lot of value ("it" being 1750 additional chances).
WS Fielding
So Bancroft accumulated 105 fielding WS and Bartell 96. Bancroft is an A and Bartell at B+.
Small differences, yes, but not a one to rate Bartell over Bancroft that I can see. Anybody who likes either one of them ought to at least give consideration to Dick Lundy.
Sewell and Lundy are the highest shortstops on my list. I don't see them making my ballot in the near future, however.
I forgot that Moore was on my ballot, so those two are behind him.
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