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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Monday, April 13, 2009Election Results: Johnson and Young are #1 and #2 on Every Ballot Among the Hurlers From 1893-1923!No surprise here - legendary Washington Senator Walter Johnson unanimously claimed the top spot in this special Hall of Merit election. Right behind him, all-time career wins leader Cy Young found himself in the second position on every ballot and with 94% of all possible points. Contemporaries Pete Alexander and Smokey Joe Williams garned at least 80% of the points with their fine 89% and 80%. Rounding out the top-tier pitchers were Christy Mathewson (78%), Kid Nichols (78%) and Eddie Plank (75%) Thanks to OCF for his help with the tally!. RK LY Player PTS Bal 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 n/e Walter Johnson 342 19 19 2 n/e Cy Young 323 19 19 3 n/e Pete Alexander 303 19 18 1 4 n/e Smokey Joe Williams 274 19 1 10 4 4 5 n/e Christy Mathewson 267 19 5 10 4 6 n/e Kid Nichols 258 19 3 5 11 7 n/e Eddie Plank 209 19 12 2 2 2 1 8 n/e Ed Walsh 192 19 5 8 2 1 1 1 1 9 n/e Amos Rusie 183 19 2 4 4 6 2 1 10 n/e Mordecai Brown 139 19 3 3 2 4 1 2 2 1 1 11 n/e Stan Coveleski 123 19 1 3 1 2 2 2 4 1 1 2 12 n/e Joe McGinnity 110 19 2 1 3 5 2 1 1 4 13 n/e Rube Waddell 106 19 2 3 3 1 4 1 2 2 1 14 n/e Rube Foster 100 19 1 1 4 6 1 3 3 15 n/e José Méndez 84 19 1 3 1 2 3 1 4 4 16 n/e Red Faber 81 19 1 1 4 3 3 3 2 2 17 n/e Clark Griffith 79 19 1 2 2 3 4 3 1 3 18 n/e Eppa Rixey 76 19 1 2 1 1 4 3 3 4 Ballots Cast: 19
John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy
Posted: April 13, 2009 at 06:59 PM | 12 comment(s)
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1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 14, 2009 at 02:01 AM (#3137060)Here is my version with both the average placement and the standard deviation of placement for each candidate. The first number after each name is the average placement and the second number is the standard deviation.
1. Johnson . 1.00 0.00
2. Young . . 2.00 0.00
3. Alexander 3.05 0.22
4. Williams . 4.58 0.87
5. Mathewson 4.95 0.69
6. Nichols . 5.42 0.75
7. Plank . . 8.00 1.75
8. Walsh . . 8.89 2.49
9. Rusie . . 9.37 1.60
10. Brown . . 11.68 3.13
11. Coveleski 12.53 2.68
12. McGinnity 13.21 3.05
13. Waddell . 13.42 2.58
14. Foster . 13.74 2.12
15. Mendez . 14.58 3.12
16. Faber . . 14.74 1.94
17. Griffith 14.84 2.03
18. Rixie . . 15.00 2.90
Comments:
1. The election was disjoint between the top 6 and the bottom 12; these two groups did not mix.
2. Consensus scores on my -100 to 100 scale ranged from 79 to 87. The total agreement on the 6 vs. 12 split, and the substantial agreement within the top six, insured that that score would be high. I'm not going to bother breaking it out by individuals.
3. McGinnity and Brown did as much to define factions within the electorate as any candidates. Count me in the McGinnity high, Brown low faction
Here's a question for my fellow voters: Looking back to the first group we voted on, would you put Clarkson above or below this line that's somewhere between Nichols and Plank? How about anyone else (Radbourn/Keefe/Spaldng)?
Offhand, I would place Clarkson and most likely Spalding above the line, OCF. Possibly Keefe, too. It's difficult question, however, since pitching changed a lot by 1900 in regard to durability.
Some voters mentioned a big gap rather than a clean line. For them (and me) it makes a big difference whether your line is just below Nichols or just above Plank.
My guess is that John Murphy means a line just above Plank; he would put rank one to three of group one above Plank. My other guess is that a majority of voters would put at least one of group one inside that gap.
I think there is a case for placing Clarkson above the upper line but I think I would come down on the side of adding none of them to the "big six" in that sense.
6-7 big candidates from this group, I suppose 1-3 from the first group, etc.
I guess we could go more than 15 slots deep, but already it's obvious that the 25th- or 30th-ranked guy is not someone we're doing cartwheels over (while agreeing that most of us may agree that most of them belong in a reasonably-sized Hall).
Hall of Fame Purgatory in the Hall of Fame forum at Baseball-Fever. The project will identify and prioritize the eligible players who should be elected to the Hall of Fame.
Proponents of Joss - and he does have supporters - have always cited his ERA+, which is the highest of any eligible non-elected candidate (other than perhaps some ultra-short-career joke cases). Detractors have noted that even when healthy, he wasn't a workhorse by the standards of his time and, well, that is a pretty short career. Most of us strongly resist doing any "what if he'd stayed healthy" extrapolation; one or two of us do tread in that direction. We don't speak with unanimity, but the Joss supporters haven't been winning this particular argument with the rest of us.
Especially since Joss had a bum arm at the time he died anyway.
Several candidates who are as bad off as Joss is now in the voting, or worse, eventually won over enough of the electorate to get enshrined. It's not impossible.
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