Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

You are here > Home > Hall of Merit > Discussion
Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Sunday, October 15, 2006

Gaylord Perry

Eligible in 1989.

John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 15, 2006 at 07:06 PM | 14 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Related News:

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 15, 2006 at 07:09 PM (#2212561)
I expectorate him going into the HoM fairly quickly.

BTW, Perry is the second person that I remember with his first name (Gaylord the buzzard from Broom Hilda was the first :-)
   2. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: October 15, 2006 at 07:45 PM (#2212595)
Don't remember any first name Gaylords. The first last name Gaylord that comes to mind was Olympic Gymnast (I think) Mitch Gaylord.

So just double checking here, no one's worried about the spitter, right?
   3. DavidFoss Posted: October 15, 2006 at 08:19 PM (#2212633)
The SABR Bio (see bb-ref page for link) is quite thorough for GPerry. Much discussion of the spitter, too.
   4. sunnyday2 Posted: October 15, 2006 at 08:20 PM (#2212634)
I went to elementary school with a Gaylord. He was neither.
   5. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: October 15, 2006 at 09:48 PM (#2212682)
I went to elementary school with a Gaylord. He was neither.

But at least when he was a student, "gay" had a different connotation than it does now. He would have been roasted on my playground, that's for sure, since "gaylord" was thrown around as a derogatory term when I was a kid.
   6. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: October 15, 2006 at 10:02 PM (#2212690)
"gaylord" was thrown around as a derogatory term when I was a kid.

Ditto. In fact, I was only dimly aware of Perry and often snickered at his name. 7-10 years old isn't exactly an age where you can distinguish between what's appropriate and what's not....
   7. CraigK Posted: October 15, 2006 at 11:13 PM (#2212737)
Hey, be glad that nobody here knew someone with a name like this one.

   8. Dag Nabbit: Sockless Psychopath Posted: October 16, 2006 at 03:52 AM (#2213531)
He had the worst run support of any 300 game winner in baseball history. I think. Nolan Ryan might've been a little worse, but I'm pretty sure Perry had him topped, er, bottomed.

While playing alongside Juan Marichal from 1964-71 (excluding Perry's token starting years) the difference in the run support they received was incredible. The Giants hit about 20% better than league average for Marichal and 3-5% UNDER league average for Perry. The frick? Reverse their run support and it's a 15-20 win difference for both of them.

He went 24-16 for a last place team in 1972 despite playing in a slightly strike-shortened year. His RSI for that year was in the 80s. He still doesn't get to 30 with an RSI W/L adjustment, but I think he's closer than Steve Carlton for that year.

I came away really impressed with him. He's probably the most underrated 300 game winner of all-time.
   9. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: October 16, 2006 at 01:19 PM (#2213652)
apropos of nothing in particular--Gaylord was one of the best bunters ever saw; ALWAYS got he ball down when a sac was called for
   10. Dr. Chaleeko Posted: October 16, 2006 at 01:52 PM (#2213675)
Per the SBE, Gaylord had 113 sacs from 1962-1983. 113 ranks him 17th in that era (tied with Bill Russell), however, among pitchers it's sixth after Sutton (130), P Niekro (129), J Niekro (126), Seaver (121), and Hooton (114). However, it's worth noting that he pitched a lot in the AL during that span. So let's see as a % of PAs. I'll use total career SACs and PAs here:

Hooton   117  913 12.8
J Niekro 147 1165 12.6%
Perry    113 1220  9.3%
Sutton   136 1559  8.7%
Seaver   121 1552  7.8%
P Niekro 129 1707  7.6%

a couple others from Gaylord's era who rank among the top 20 SACers for the Perry era:

B Forsch 115 1041 11.0%
Ruthven   82  773 10.6%
Rogers   101 1045 10.0%
Koosman  100 1052  9.5%
Reuschel 135 1504  9.0%
John      93 1031  9.0%
Lonborg   78  902  8.6%
Lolich    85 1017  8.4%
Reuss     99 1195  8.3%
Carlton   94 1877  5.0%
Gibson    72 1489  4.8%

and, finally, a nod to today'
s SAC masterTom Glavinesecond-highest career SACs among active players82nd all time, and more SACs than any pitcher in historyIn factall of the top 10 pitchers in SACing are from 1950 onward (Friend being the earliest).

Glavine  201 1545 13.0
   11. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: October 18, 2006 at 08:12 AM (#2216320)
I get Perry and Ruffing as pretty similar, with a slight edge to Perry on peak. Basically the same guy in terms of value, after adjusting for era. Perry was somewhat better as a pitcher, but Ruffing's hitting makes up the difference.

That 1972 really was a great season.
   12. OCF Posted: October 21, 2006 at 03:38 AM (#2220037)
RA+ Pythpat equivalent record: 337-258. He had a very high number of IP per decision: 9.24. This gives him more equivalent decisions than actual decisions. I have Bob Gibson at 265-166. That makes the difference between Gibson and Perry 72-92, which isn't much but might potentially be counted as a slight postive for Perry. Gibson had a bigger peak (or in my system, more from "big years" scores), but Perry's got a good peak. I have his 1972 season as an equivalent 27-11, with 1974 at 24-12. Both of those are very big years indeed. He also has years of equivalent 22-14, 20-13, 22-17, 21-16, 17-11, 15-8.

Actually, I never offense-adjusted Gibson; that would put him a little further in front of Perry. Apart from the sacrifices, Perry hit like a pitcher and then moved to the AL.

Joe mentions Ruffing; after adjusting for his own hitting, I have Ruffing at 282-201, making for a difference of 55-57. This time the difference is clearly in Perry's favor, expect for the possible era adjustment: that pitchers in Perry's time pitched more innings than those in Ruffing's time. Ruffing has a peak as well - it's not a big difference there.
   13. Paul Wendt Posted: October 21, 2006 at 04:30 AM (#2220057)
Perry is Ruffing? Ruffing is Perry?
color me astonished
Did you upgrade Ruffing after your big study, Joe, or always rate him highly?

To the point of the day, Perry is a first ballot HOMer.
   14. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: October 21, 2006 at 05:39 AM (#2220082)
I had Ruffing low early Paul. But then I saw the light. I don't know if that was before or after he was elected. IIRC I had Ruffing pretty high before he went in, but that was before I started the big study. If I had done the study first, I'm sure I'dve had him #1 most of the way, barring years with no-brainers.

Funny you mention Gibson OCF - I have Gibson #10 and Perry #11, pending Seaver, Palmer, Blyleven and the modern (1980s and beyond) crew . . .

Gibson scores at 1.205 Pennants Added, Perry 1.157. It's a clear win for Gibson, even though they are 10/11.

That's as much distance as Bucky Walters (#39) has between Wilbur Cooper (#61), for example.

Gibson was also a much better hitter, which causes some of that gap (maybe most of it even). And Gibson had the better peak. And it took Perry nearly 1500 more translated IP to get there.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.



<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF


Thanks to
Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt!
for his generous support.


You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.


Page rendered in 0.1839 seconds
41 querie(s) executed