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1. DL from MN
Posted: January 11, 2016 at 11:30 AM (#5131035)
I saw a comment that Rodriguez was the "Best Defensive Catcher ever". That seems worthy of in-depth discussion here.
2. bbmck
Posted: January 11, 2016 at 12:29 PM (#5131090)
500+ G at C, min 1 Rfield per 12.5 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PA Charlie Bennett 142.0 1062 1878 1893 23-38 4310 Doc Bushong 54.0 672 1875 1890 18-33 2527 Bill Holbert 51.0 623 1876 1888 21-33 2396
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 12.51-15 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PA Yadier Molina 113.0 1464 2004 2015 21-32 5576 Charlie OBrien 58.0 800 1985 2000 25-40 2560 Jeff Mathis 46.0 666 2005 2015 22-32 2141
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 15.01-17.5 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PA Ivan Rodriguez 146.0 2543 1991 2011 19-39 10270 Jim Sundberg 114.1 1962 1974 1989 23-38 6899 Charles Johnson 73.0 1188 1994 2005 22-33 4386 Ron Karkovice 62.3 939 1986 1997 22-33 2948
Player Rfield G From To Age PA Buck Ewing 74.0 1315 1880 1897 20-37 5772 Steve Yeager 70.0 1269 1972 1986 23-37 4015 Tom Pagnozzi 50.1 927 1987 1998 24-35 3142 Mike LaValliere 46.1 879 1984 1995 23-34 2871 Mike Ryan 32.0 636 1964 1974 22-32 2099
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 20.01-22.5 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PA Gary Carter 112.1 2295 1974 1992 20-38 9019 Bob Boone 105.3 2264 1972 1990 24-42 8148 Del Crandall 70.8 1573 1949 1966 19-36 5583 Russell Martin 59.0 1292 2006 2015 23-32 5147
Player Rfield G From To Age PA Brad Ausmus 79.8 1971 1993 2010 24-41 7102 Rick Dempsey 71.4 1766 1969 1992 19-42 5407 Butch Wynegar 53.9 1301 1976 1988 20-32 5067 Jack Clements 49.0 1160 1884 1900 19-35 4721
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 25.01-27.5 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PA Chief Zimmer 47.0 1280 1884 1903 23-42 5078 Randy Hundley 42.0 1061 1964 1977 22-35 3801 Jason LaRue 36.5 922 1999 2010 25-36 3103 Morgan Murphy 21.0 568 1890 1901 23-34 2170
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 27.51-30 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PA Johnny Bench 72.3 2158 1967 1983 19-35 8674 Jody Davis 38.1 1082 1981 1990 24-33 3984 Carlos Ruiz 34.0 1021 2006 2015 27-36 3691 John Stearns 29.3 810 1974 1984 22-32 3083
68 debut since 1990 with 500+ G at C, the 20 with 1000+ G at C:
Player Rfield G From To Age PA Dan Wilson 33.4 1299 1992 2005 23-36 4616 Mike Matheny 30.7 1305 1994 2006 23-35 4287 Jason Kendall 16.5 2085 1996 2010 22-36 8702 Bengie Molina 15.0 1362 1998 2010 23-35 5159 Kurt Suzuki 11.0 1102 2007 2015 23-31 4249
Gregg Zaun -1.0 1232 1995 2010 24-39 4042 John Flaherty -1.0 1047 1992 2005 24-37 3640 Ramon Hernandez -1.2 1526 1999 2013 23-37 5701 Jason Varitek -6.0 1546 1997 2011 25-39 5839 Miguel Olivo -7.0 1124 2002 2014 23-35 3993
Catcher data looks at stolen bases allowed, caught stealing, errors, pickoffs, passed balls, and wild pitches. I split the data by pitcher handedness (otherwise a catcher will look better if he catches more lefthanders than normal.) Once again, everything is compared to league averages and converted to runs.
Uh, I can see "edit" and "close" options under everyone's posts. Is that just me?
edit: Wait, they're gone now. Probably a momentary glitch.
8. DL from MN
Posted: January 11, 2016 at 01:45 PM (#5131177)
The game calling stats LOVE Carlton Fisk.
9. bbmck
Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:01 PM (#5131188)
Total Zone through 2002, DRS since then.
10. BDC
Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:10 PM (#5131200)
The knock on Rodriguez' game calling was he called a lot of fastballs with guys on base to make it easier to manage the running game
As I was saying in some other thread recently, it's a meme but I'm not sure how well it's sourced. The one guy I heard of knocking Rodriguez for his pitch-calling was Bobby Witt, in his youth (and Pudge's extreme youth), but even those quotes are hard to track down. Surviving direct quotes from Witt are full of praise. Maybe someone else can find the source of this rumor.
Suffice it to say, from a qualitative and observational viewpoint, Rodriguez's arm and release were otherworldly, and he came into the league at 19 with more self-confidence than most veterans. He also had uncanny bat speed, and when he was hurt mid-season in 2000 he had developed into a fantastic hitter (though really that just means hitting as well as Mike Piazza over just a half season :)
Pudge is a small man, but by his 1999 season, when I was a columnist covering the Rangers regularly, he was built like a Ninja Turtle. He later morphed back into a more human kind of body style. Your guess is as good as anyone's how that happened.
I rarely enter these discussions because I'm not good enough with numbers; just wanted to stress Rodriguez's unique abilities from a "scouting" standpoint because I watched him play so much.
11. bbmck
Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:28 PM (#5131222)
"He's the kind of guy that shuts down a team's game plan," added Bobby Witt, another Rangers righthander. "There's no doubt that he has teams changing their ways. The Hendersons and Raineses, they're still running. But the guys who steal 15, 25 bases, are reluctant."
12. Morty Causa
Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:28 PM (#5131224)
The game calling stats LOVE Carlton Fisk.
They sure do, but many savvy observers back then would nod their head and say this is fully justified. Throughout his career, even when he was as young catcher, he was lauded for his ability to call a game and handle pitchers.
13. DL from MN
Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:29 PM (#5131226)
I always thought there was a grain of truth to the criticism, but it was more trying to come up with a flaw in his game when everything else he did behind the plate was pretty spectacular.
I loved watching him snap-throw to 1B, I wonder how often it actually worked. Can anyone sort out pickoffs at 1B for Rodriguez?
14. bbmck
Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:42 PM (#5131236)
To his prodigious arm, Rodriguez has now added a sense of gamesmanship. "If the pitch is, say, a slider away, I've seen Pudge whip his head around and pretend the ball went to the backstop just to see if he can trick a base runner far enough off the bag to throw him out," Rangers pitcher Bobby Witt says."Sometimes you can see Pudge smiling about it behind his mask."
15. bbmck
Posted: January 11, 2016 at 02:56 PM (#5131255)
The one guy I heard of knocking Rodriguez for his pitch-calling was Bobby Witt
IIRC, Todd Stottlemyre went public with some pretty pointed comments about pitching to Rodriguez after Stott left Texas. Can't find anything specific in a quick Google search right now though.
17. toratoratora
Posted: January 11, 2016 at 05:50 PM (#5131464)
They sure do, but many savvy observers back then would nod their head and say this is fully justified. Throughout his career, even when he was as young catcher, he was lauded for his ability to call a game and handle pitchers.
...very very slowly.
Fisk could call a game but the thing I remember most about him was how long he took
18. Howie Menckel
Posted: January 22, 2016 at 08:47 PM (#5140518)
"I rarely enter these discussions because I'm not good enough with numbers; just wanted to stress Rodriguez's unique abilities from a "scouting" standpoint because I watched him play so much."
thanks for the comments, BDC. I think you'll find such comments are welcomed as part of a "toolkit" imo.
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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. DL from MN Posted: January 11, 2016 at 11:30 AM (#5131035)Player Rfield G From To Age PACharlie Bennett 142.0 1062 1878 1893 23-38 4310
Doc Bushong 54.0 672 1875 1890 18-33 2527
Bill Holbert 51.0 623 1876 1888 21-33 2396
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 12.51-15 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PAYadier Molina 113.0 1464 2004 2015 21-32 5576
Charlie OBrien 58.0 800 1985 2000 25-40 2560
Jeff Mathis 46.0 666 2005 2015 22-32 2141
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 15.01-17.5 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PA
Ivan Rodriguez 146.0 2543 1991 2011 19-39 10270
Jim Sundberg 114.1 1962 1974 1989 23-38 6899
Charles Johnson 73.0 1188 1994 2005 22-33 4386
Ron Karkovice 62.3 939 1986 1997 22-33 2948
Clay Dalrymple 62.0 1079 1960 1971 23-34 3532
Silver Flint 44.0 760 1875 1889 19-33 2968
Rick Wilkins 42.1 720 1991 2001 24-34 2435
Salvador Perez 34.0 545 2011 2015 21-25 2148
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 17.51-20 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PABuck Ewing 74.0 1315 1880 1897 20-37 5772
Steve Yeager 70.0 1269 1972 1986 23-37 4015
Tom Pagnozzi 50.1 927 1987 1998 24-35 3142
Mike LaValliere 46.1 879 1984 1995 23-34 2871
Mike Ryan 32.0 636 1964 1974 22-32 2099
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 20.01-22.5 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PA
Gary Carter 112.1 2295 1974 1992 20-38 9019
Bob Boone 105.3 2264 1972 1990 24-42 8148
Del Crandall 70.8 1573 1949 1966 19-36 5583
Russell Martin 59.0 1292 2006 2015 23-32 5147
Kirt Manwaring 47.0 1008 1987 1999 21-33 3338
Pop Snyder 44.0 930 1873 1891 18-36 3736
Charlie Ganzel 39.0 787 1884 1897 22-35 3184
Jocko Milligan 37.0 772 1884 1893 22-31 3210
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 22.51-25 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PABrad Ausmus 79.8 1971 1993 2010 24-41 7102
Rick Dempsey 71.4 1766 1969 1992 19-42 5407
Butch Wynegar 53.9 1301 1976 1988 20-32 5067
Jack Clements 49.0 1160 1884 1900 19-35 4721
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 25.01-27.5 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PAChief Zimmer 47.0 1280 1884 1903 23-42 5078
Randy Hundley 42.0 1061 1964 1977 22-35 3801
Jason LaRue 36.5 922 1999 2010 25-36 3103
Morgan Murphy 21.0 568 1890 1901 23-34 2170
500+ G at C, 1 Rfield per 27.51-30 games:
Player Rfield G From To Age PAJohnny Bench 72.3 2158 1967 1983 19-35 8674
Jody Davis 38.1 1082 1981 1990 24-33 3984
Carlos Ruiz 34.0 1021 2006 2015 27-36 3691
John Stearns 29.3 810 1974 1984 22-32 3083
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/11/2016.
306 more players with 500+ G at C, 99 more players with 1000+ G at C, including 12 of the 15 in the HoF:
Player Rfield G From To Age PA
Ray Schalk 46.0 1763 1912 1929 19-36 6237
Yogi Berra 29.8 2120 1946 1965 21-40 8359
Carlton Fisk 27.2 2499 1969 1993 21-45 9853
Bill Dickey 20.0 1789 1928 1946 21-39 7065
Roy Campanella 17.0 1215 1948 1957 26-35 4815
Gabby Hartnett 12.0 1991 1922 1941 21-40 7297
Mickey Cochrane -2.0 1482 1925 1937 22-34 6207
Rick Ferrell -3.0 1884 1929 1947 23-41 7077
Roger Bresnahan -15.0 1446 1897 1915 18-36 5373
Ernie Lombardi -21.0 1852 1931 1947 23-39 6351
King Kelly -44.0 1455 1878 1893 20-35 6455
Mike Piazza -63.1 1912 1992 2007 23-38 7745
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/11/2016.
68 debut since 1990 with 500+ G at C, the 20 with 1000+ G at C:
Player Rfield G From To Age PA
Dan Wilson 33.4 1299 1992 2005 23-36 4616
Mike Matheny 30.7 1305 1994 2006 23-35 4287
Jason Kendall 16.5 2085 1996 2010 22-36 8702
Bengie Molina 15.0 1362 1998 2010 23-35 5159
Kurt Suzuki 11.0 1102 2007 2015 23-31 4249
Gregg Zaun -1.0 1232 1995 2010 24-39 4042
John Flaherty -1.0 1047 1992 2005 24-37 3640
Ramon Hernandez -1.2 1526 1999 2013 23-37 5701
Jason Varitek -6.0 1546 1997 2011 25-39 5839
Miguel Olivo -7.0 1124 2002 2014 23-35 3993
Rod Barajas -7.1 1114 1999 2012 23-36 3784
Brent Mayne -8.2 1279 1990 2004 22-36 4084
Javy Lopez -11.0 1503 1992 2006 21-35 5793
Brian McCann -13.0 1380 2005 2015 21-31 5427
Mike Lieberthal -32.0 1212 1994 2007 22-35 4695
A.J. Pierzynski -43.0 1978 1998 2015 21-38 7556
Todd Hundley -49.6 1225 1990 2003 21-34 4305
Jorge Posada -59.9 1829 1995 2011 23-39 7150
John Buck -60.0 1090 2004 2014 23-33 4009
Mike Piazza -63.1 1912 1992 2007 23-38 7745
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 1/11/2016.
These Game Calling stats (from ARom IIRC) certainly don't support that.
http://www.baseballprojection.com/special/catcher_gcall.htm
edit: Wait, they're gone now. Probably a momentary glitch.
As I was saying in some other thread recently, it's a meme but I'm not sure how well it's sourced. The one guy I heard of knocking Rodriguez for his pitch-calling was Bobby Witt, in his youth (and Pudge's extreme youth), but even those quotes are hard to track down. Surviving direct quotes from Witt are full of praise. Maybe someone else can find the source of this rumor.
Suffice it to say, from a qualitative and observational viewpoint, Rodriguez's arm and release were otherworldly, and he came into the league at 19 with more self-confidence than most veterans. He also had uncanny bat speed, and when he was hurt mid-season in 2000 he had developed into a fantastic hitter (though really that just means hitting as well as Mike Piazza over just a half season :)
Pudge is a small man, but by his 1999 season, when I was a columnist covering the Rangers regularly, he was built like a Ninja Turtle. He later morphed back into a more human kind of body style. Your guess is as good as anyone's how that happened.
I rarely enter these discussions because I'm not good enough with numbers; just wanted to stress Rodriguez's unique abilities from a "scouting" standpoint because I watched him play so much.
"He's the kind of guy that shuts down a team's game plan," added Bobby Witt, another Rangers righthander. "There's no doubt that he has teams changing their ways. The Hendersons and Raineses, they're still running. But the guys who steal 15, 25 bases, are reluctant."
They sure do, but many savvy observers back then would nod their head and say this is fully justified. Throughout his career, even when he was as young catcher, he was lauded for his ability to call a game and handle pitchers.
I loved watching him snap-throw to 1B, I wonder how often it actually worked. Can anyone sort out pickoffs at 1B for Rodriguez?
To his prodigious arm, Rodriguez has now added a sense of gamesmanship. "If the pitch is, say, a slider away, I've seen Pudge whip his head around and pretend the ball went to the backstop just to see if he can trick a base runner far enough off the bag to throw him out," Rangers pitcher Bobby Witt says."Sometimes you can see Pudge smiling about it behind his mask."
1956-2007 Catchers with the Most Pickoffs (Career):
Base PO Catcher1 50 Ivan Rodriguez
2 24 Benito Santiago
3 28 Bob Boone
Any 81 Ivan Rodriguez
IIRC, Todd Stottlemyre went public with some pretty pointed comments about pitching to Rodriguez after Stott left Texas. Can't find anything specific in a quick Google search right now though.
...very very slowly.
Fisk could call a game but the thing I remember most about him was how long he took
"I rarely enter these discussions because I'm not good enough with numbers; just wanted to stress Rodriguez's unique abilities from a "scouting" standpoint because I watched him play so much."
thanks for the comments, BDC. I think you'll find such comments are welcomed as part of a "toolkit" imo.
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