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Hall of Merit— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best
Sunday, November 16, 2008
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2023 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (168 - 1:46pm, Jul 13)Last:  DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: Trophy Case (71 - 6:53pm, Jul 08)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1900 Results (6 - 6:28pm, Jul 08)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1900 Ballot (11 - 4:03pm, Jul 06)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1918 Results (6 - 8:58pm, Jun 29)Last: kennaMost Meritorious Player: 1920 Ballot (25 - 8:55pm, Jun 29)Last: kennaMost Meritorious Player: 1900 Discussion (9 - 1:14am, Jun 29)Last: Harmon RipkowskiHall of Merit Book Club (6 - 12:45pm, Jun 28)Last: progrockfanMost Meritorious Player: 1899 Results (6 - 1:51pm, Jun 22)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1899 Ballot (10 - 9:54am, Jun 22)Last: TomHMost Meritorious Player: 1899 Discussion (9 - 9:04am, May 31)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1898 Results (4 - 3:22pm, May 06)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1898 Ballot (8 - 10:07am, May 05)Last: DL from MNMost Meritorious Player: 1898 Discussion (7 - 1:08am, May 02)Last: Harmon RipkowskiMost Meritorious Player: 1897 Results (2 - 4:29pm, Apr 06)Last: DL from MN
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1. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: November 16, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#3010313):(
I would have guessed that he played almost every day for 15 years, but no, nothing close to that.
(Mine was a remote misconception, for I doubt that I tuned in to a Cubs game after the 1989 playoff, the Will Clark & Mark Grace playoff. Looking at his career record at bb-ref, I suppose that Grace was a career disappointment. He never fulfilled the promise of his 1989 season, not to mention playoff.)
I use Grace when going on one of my periodic anti-Jack Morris rants... because even among teh pro-Morrisites almost no one thinks Grace belongs
Except I think that of the HOM was expanded enough Grace would get in well before Morris...
My first reaction upon seeing that: Really? More than Craig Biggio? I know that Biggio was extremely durable in the 90's, and Biggio usually batted leadoff, giving him plenty of PA. If you add it up, you get 1754 hits for Grace and 1728 for Biggio - so it is Grace, but a margin of 26. What about H+BB? Still Grace, but the margin is down to 7: 2465 to 2458. But then if you make it H+BB+HBP, well you know what would happen. (Grace was hit 23 times in the decade, which is hardly ever; Biggio was hit 157 times). That tilts it to 2615-2488 Biggio.
Cnt Player TOB H BB HBP OBP PA From To
+----+-----------------+----+----+----+---+-----+-----+----+----+
1 Frank Thomas 2681 1564 1076 41 .440 6091 1990 1999
2 Barry Bonds 2669 1478 1146 45 .434 6146 1990 1999
3 Craig Biggio 2605 1728 730 147 .386 6795 1990 1999
4 Rafael Palmeiro 2501 1747 707 47 .375 6681 1990 1999
5 Mark Grace 2488 1754 711 23 .385 6467 1990 1999
6 Jeff Bagwell 2414 1447 885 82 .416 5800 1991 1999
7 Edgar Martinez 2402 1492 854 56 .430 5587 1990 1999
8 Fred McGriff 2382 1573 787 22 .381 6255 1990 1999
9 Tony Phillips 2382 1374 977 31 .392 6103 1990 1999
10 Ken Griffey 2370 1622 703 45 .384 6182 1990 1999
11 Roberto Alomar 2367 1678 658 31 .382 6270 1990 1999
12 Chuck Knoblauch 2318 1533 672 113 .388 5992 1991 1999
13 John Olerud 2311 1431 820 60 .406 5699 1990 1999
14 Rickey Henderson 2242 1213 976 53 .412 5452 1990 1999
15 Paul O'Neill 2230 1524 690 16 .376 5932 1990 1999
16 Jay Bell 2214 1529 641 44 .349 6477 1990 1999
17 Albert Belle 2188 1520 619 49 .376 5817 1990 1999
18 Robin Ventura 2164 1413 734 17 .367 5923 1990 1999
19 Cal Ripken 2161 1589 527 45 .341 6348 1990 1999
20 Brady Anderson 2160 1307 724 129 .373 5836 1990 1999
Not McGriff?
Hey, can we get a 2010 election discussion thread up?
OK, now wasting time with Similarity Scores:
Enos Slaughter's most similar player is Mickey Vernon (881)
Mickey Vernon's most similar player is Mark Grace (904)
Mark Grace's most similar player is Keith Hernandez (912)
Keith Hernandez's most similar player is Wally Joyner (913)
Wally Joyner's most similar player is Hal McRae (933)
That's as far as I can go.
I never liked this comparison. Grace only claims the title by virtue of selective end points. He doesn't lead MLB in hits in any other 10-year stretch (Gwynn beats him in the 1989-98 time frame, and Palmeiro is ahead after).
Morris, in contrast, had the most wins in baseball for six different 10-year stretches, starting with 79-88 and ending in 84-93. It still didn't make him a deserving HoFer, but it wasn't just Graceian in nature.
Alas, I doubt JPFW13 will end his 10-year BTF hiatus to support his original contention.
For a while, this was a standard factoid to point out in HOF arguments (particularly in the Jack Morris years). To the point where we probably weren't giving fair consideration to the point that leading MLB in a major statistical category for 10 years straight is a very good thing. It's not a HOF credential, but it's a strong argument for HOVG.
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