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Sunday, November 16, 2008

Mark Grace

Eligible 2009

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JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: November 16, 2008 at 10:36 PM | 26 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. JoeD has the Imperial March Stuck in His Head Posted: November 16, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#3010313)
The Keith Hernandez of the 1990s? Not quite, but still pretty good.
   2. Chris Cobb Posted: November 17, 2008 at 01:05 AM (#3010381)
More like the Fred Tenney of the 1990s: Tenney is his closest comp in my system.
   3. Qufini Posted: November 17, 2008 at 02:37 AM (#3010427)
I was thinking the white Buck O'Neil.
   4. Cabbage Posted: November 17, 2008 at 05:35 AM (#3010501)
How will his reputation as "Lord of the Slump-Busters" affect his candidacy?
   5. Howie Menckel Posted: November 17, 2008 at 06:01 AM (#3010507)
Damn, I had "post 3" as the first slump-buster reference

:(
   6. Blackadder Posted: November 17, 2008 at 07:46 AM (#3010524)
Though I am sure almost everyone here is aware of it, this seems a good place to recall for posterity's sake that Grace had more hits in the 1990's than any other player. This is one of the more surprising pieces of random silly baseball trivia I can remember learning.
   7. Paul Wendt Posted: November 17, 2008 at 05:07 PM (#3010705)
Grace played 90% of team games nine times, all in the 1990s.
I would have guessed that he played almost every day for 15 years, but no, nothing close to that.
(Mine was a remote misconception, for I doubt that I tuned in to a Cubs game after the 1989 playoff, the Will Clark & Mark Grace playoff. Looking at his career record at bb-ref, I suppose that Grace was a career disappointment. He never fulfilled the promise of his 1989 season, not to mention playoff.)
   8. JPWF13 Posted: November 17, 2008 at 05:56 PM (#3010773)
this seems a good place to recall for posterity's sake that Grace had more hits in the 1990's than any other player. This is one of the more surprising pieces of random silly baseball trivia I can remember learning.


I use Grace when going on one of my periodic anti-Jack Morris rants... because even among teh pro-Morrisites almost no one thinks Grace belongs

Except I think that of the HOM was expanded enough Grace would get in well before Morris...
   9. OCF Posted: November 17, 2008 at 06:02 PM (#3010781)
Grace had more hits in the 1990's than any other player.

My first reaction upon seeing that: Really? More than Craig Biggio? I know that Biggio was extremely durable in the 90's, and Biggio usually batted leadoff, giving him plenty of PA. If you add it up, you get 1754 hits for Grace and 1728 for Biggio - so it is Grace, but a margin of 26. What about H+BB? Still Grace, but the margin is down to 7: 2465 to 2458. But then if you make it H+BB+HBP, well you know what would happen. (Grace was hit 23 times in the decade, which is hardly ever; Biggio was hit 157 times). That tilts it to 2615-2488 Biggio.
   10. DL from MN Posted: November 17, 2008 at 06:24 PM (#3010808)
Barry Bonds 90s BB+H+HBP 2669 (didn't check the math)
   11. DanG Posted: November 17, 2008 at 09:36 PM (#3011078)
Leaders in Times On Base, 1990-99
Cnt Player             TOB   H   BB  HBP  OBP    PA  From  To
+----+-----------------+----+----+----+---+-----+-----+----+----+
    1 Frank Thomas      2681 1564 1076  41  .440  6091 1990 1999 
    2 Barry Bonds       2669 1478 1146  45  .434  6146 1990 1999 
    3 Craig Biggio      2605 1728  730 147  .386  6795 1990 1999 
    4 Rafael Palmeiro   2501 1747  707  47  .375  6681 1990 1999 
    5 Mark Grace        2488 1754  711  23  .385  6467 1990 1999 
    6 Jeff Bagwell      2414 1447  885  82  .416  5800 1991 1999 
    7 Edgar Martinez    2402 1492  854  56  .430  5587 1990 1999 
    8 Fred McGriff      2382 1573  787  22  .381  6255 1990 1999 
    9 Tony Phillips     2382 1374  977  31  .392  6103 1990 1999 
   10 Ken Griffey       2370 1622  703  45  .384  6182 1990 1999 
   11 Roberto Alomar    2367 1678  658  31  .382  6270 1990 1999 
   12 Chuck Knoblauch   2318 1533  672 113  .388  5992 1991 1999 
   13 John Olerud       2311 1431  820  60  .406  5699 1990 1999 
   14 Rickey Henderson  2242 1213  976  53  .412  5452 1990 1999 
   15 Paul O'Neill      2230 1524  690  16  .376  5932 1990 1999 
   16 Jay Bell          2214 1529  641  44  .349  6477 1990 1999 
   17 Albert Belle      2188 1520  619  49  .376  5817 1990 1999 
   18 Robin Ventura     2164 1413  734  17  .367  5923 1990 1999 
   19 Cal Ripken        2161 1589  527  45  .341  6348 1990 1999 
   20 Brady Anderson    2160 1307  724 129  .373  5836 1990 1999 
   12. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 17, 2008 at 09:46 PM (#3011086)
I believe Grace also had the most doubles in the 90s.
   13. DL from MN Posted: November 17, 2008 at 10:27 PM (#3011126)
I'll bet we elect everyone in that top 7 except Grace.
   14. OCF Posted: November 17, 2008 at 10:27 PM (#3011128)
Yikes - so Palmiero had a number of hits in between Grace and Biggio. I forgot all about him. That's a pretty tight cluster.
   15. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: November 17, 2008 at 10:38 PM (#3011138)
Edgar is borderline without minor league credit. DHing really takes a bite out of one's value--just ask the Red Sox, who had to suffer Manny's stone glove in left all these years because Ortiz wouldn't/couldn't handle first base.
   16. DL from MN Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:17 PM (#3011160)
I agree but I'll bet we give Edgar the credit.
   17. Juan V Posted: November 17, 2008 at 11:21 PM (#3011163)
Should we? My guess is that by his time the player market was liquid enough that someone would have noticed him trapped and asked for him. Am I wrong?
   18. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: November 18, 2008 at 01:03 AM (#3011238)
It would be good to get some MLE's once he's eligible.
   19. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: November 18, 2008 at 02:36 AM (#3011285)
Mark Grace is the white Steve Garvey.
   20. Bleed the Freak Posted: November 20, 2008 at 01:56 AM (#3012771)
Something that I'll never forget about Mark Grace...The Cubs would bat the "First Baseman" in the 4 hole, and bat the "Second Baseman" in the 3 hole (Ryne Sandberg!)
   21. DanG Posted: November 20, 2008 at 02:37 PM (#3012952)
I'll bet we elect everyone in that top 7 except Grace.

Not McGriff?

Hey, can we get a 2010 election discussion thread up?
   22. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: November 20, 2008 at 04:58 PM (#3013091)
The Mickey Vernon of the 1990s.

OK, now wasting time with Similarity Scores:

Enos Slaughter's most similar player is Mickey Vernon (881)
Mickey Vernon's most similar player is Mark Grace (904)
Mark Grace's most similar player is Keith Hernandez (912)
Keith Hernandez's most similar player is Wally Joyner (913)
Wally Joyner's most similar player is Hal McRae (933)

That's as far as I can go.
   23. The Honorable Ardo Posted: August 01, 2021 at 11:52 PM (#6032112)
Grace had a 16-year career. In every one of those seasons, he walked more than he struck out. It will take a radical change in the MLB style of play before another hitter comes close.
   24. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:16 PM (#6032284)
Heyyo, 13-year-old discussion comes back. I was like, "Did Grace pull a Minnie Minoso that I didn't notice?"
   25. SoSH U at work Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:47 PM (#6032294)
I use Grace when going on one of my periodic anti-Jack Morris rants... because even among teh pro-Morrisites almost no one thinks Grace belongs


I never liked this comparison. Grace only claims the title by virtue of selective end points. He doesn't lead MLB in hits in any other 10-year stretch (Gwynn beats him in the 1989-98 time frame, and Palmeiro is ahead after).

Morris, in contrast, had the most wins in baseball for six different 10-year stretches, starting with 79-88 and ending in 84-93. It still didn't make him a deserving HoFer, but it wasn't just Graceian in nature.

Alas, I doubt JPFW13 will end his 10-year BTF hiatus to support his original contention.
   26. Zach Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:07 PM (#6032629)
Though I am sure almost everyone here is aware of it, this seems a good place to recall for posterity's sake that Grace had more hits in the 1990's than any other player. This is one of the more surprising pieces of random silly baseball trivia I can remember learning.

For a while, this was a standard factoid to point out in HOF arguments (particularly in the Jack Morris years). To the point where we probably weren't giving fair consideration to the point that leading MLB in a major statistical category for 10 years straight is a very good thing. It's not a HOF credential, but it's a strong argument for HOVG.

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