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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Tuesday, December 23, 2014Mock 2015 Hall of Fame Ballot2015 BBTF Hall of Fame Ballot IMPORTANT: Please read: This election should follow BBWAA rules, not Hall of Merit rules. However, we hope to see only players that each voter feels belong on their ballots. Leaving 1st-year candidates off your ballot is also frowned upon. IOW, we would like to see an absence of some of the silliness that permeates Hall of Fame voting by the writers. The election will end Monday on Jan 5th 2015 (4 PM EST). Results will be posted a short time later. Please don’t post any vote tallies on this thread. Here are some of the rules by the BBWAA that pertain to our electorate: 3. Eligible Candidates — Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements: A. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election. 4. Method of Election A. BBWAA Screening Committee — A Screening Committee consisting of baseball writers will be appointed by the BBWAA. This Screening Committee shall consist of six members, with two members to be elected at each Annual Meeting for a three-year term. The duty of the Screening Committee shall be to prepare a ballot listing in alphabetical order eligible candidates who (1) received a vote on a minimum of five percent (5%) of the ballots cast in the preceding election or (2) are eligible for the first time and are nominated by any two of the six members of the BBWAA Screening Committee. 5. Voting — Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played. Here are the players, in alphabetical order: Rich Aurillia |
BookmarksYou must be logged in to view your Bookmarks. Hot TopicsReranking First Basemen: Discussion Thread
(34 - 9:52am, May 31) Last: DL from MN 2024 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (118 - 4:10pm, May 30) Last: Kiko Sakata Reranking Shortstops Ballot (10 - 5:16pm, May 25) Last: Chris Cobb Cal Ripken, Jr. (15 - 12:42am, May 18) Last: The Honorable Ardo New Eligibles Year by Year (996 - 12:23pm, May 12) Last: cookiedabookie Reranking Shortstops: Discussion Thread (67 - 6:46pm, May 07) Last: cookiedabookie Reranking Centerfielders: Results (20 - 10:31am, Apr 28) Last: cookiedabookie Reranking Center Fielders Ballot (20 - 9:30am, Apr 06) Last: DL from MN Ranking Center Fielders in the Hall of Merit - Discussion Thread (77 - 5:45pm, Apr 05) Last: Esteban Rivera Reranking Right Fielders: Results (34 - 2:55am, Mar 30) Last: bjhanke 2023 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (376 - 10:42am, Mar 07) Last: Dr. Chaleeko Reranking Right Fielders: Ballot (21 - 5:20pm, Mar 01) Last: DL from MN Ranking Right Fielders in the Hall of Merit - Discussion thread (71 - 9:47pm, Feb 28) Last: Guapo Dobie Moore (239 - 10:40am, Feb 11) Last: Mike Webber Ranking Left Fielders in the Hall of Merit - Discussion thread (96 - 12:21pm, Feb 08) Last: DL from MN |
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Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Alan Trammell
First cut was 18 players. Had to drop Sosa, Sheffield, Kent, Edgar, Biggio, Walker, McGwire and Mussina. Everyone on this ballot is above a 50th percentile Hall of Famer. FWIW - Mussina is also above the 50th percentile.
BTW speaking from experience alphabetized ballots are a big help to the ballot counter
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell
In addition, I think that Bagwell, Mussina, Raines, Smoltz, and Walker are clear Hall of Famers. I tend to lean a little more toward signature accomplishments, including postseason, in prioritizing, but the cutoff at ten is fairly arbitrary, as I'm sure a lot of us will find.
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
--------
If the ballot was a simple yes/no, I'd also vote for:
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Gary Sheffield
John Smoltz
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
This is the most significant line
B. Electors may vote for as few as zero (0) and as many as ten (10) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election.
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
P. Martinez
Mussina
Piazza
Raines
Trammell
Plus a bunch of others if the cap was eliminated
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
P. Martinez
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Sosa
Trammell
if I had room
Biggio
Delgado
Kent
E. Martinez
Mussina
Schilling
Sheffield
Smoltz
Walker
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
I voted this straight up. In the real world, err BBWAA world which is more like the surreal world, I might consider voting with strategery. Had I had more than 10 spots, I would add Trammell, Edgar, Biggio, Sosa, Mac, Sheffield, and Walker.
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Alan Trammell
With a no-limit ballot I'd also add Edgar Martinez, McGriff, Mussina, Sosa and Walker.
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
There are six obvious choices (Bagwell, Bonds, Clemens, Johnson, Martinez, and Piazza), and I'm pretty comfortable including Schilling. The other three slots are very hard. If this were a BBWAA ballot I would probably find room for Biggio.
Biggio
Johnson
P. Martinez
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Smoltz
Trammell
Walker
If I had twelve votes the next two would be McGriff and Mussina. A big Hall guy, I see more than 20 qualified candidates. I've mocked for Lee Smith in the past, but it looks like the "saves leader" narrative has run out and the vote is useful elsewhere. I'm sure all the PED controversy players, including Palmeiro, will go in reasonably soon, along with Pete and Shoeless Joe. Nonetheless, I think it's entirely reasonable to consider PED in relation to the character clauses (though I support rewriting those clauses). The vote for Walker includes some measure of strategy to keep him on life support. The campaign for Raines should focus on three things - runs, runs scored, and how Rickey's runs aren't a fair comparison.
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
E. Martinez
P. Martinez
Pizza
Raines
Trammell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Every time I go through this exercise I end up with more or less the same list of candidates, but the process of whittling off players like Trammel and Walker is always painful. Mussina and Sosa are two polar opposites - Mussina has the resume but no flair, and Sosa is the ultimate "felt like a HOFer at the time" guy. Those four are my 11-14 were there no ballot cap.
McGriff, E Martinez, and Biggio are right below on my "out" line but it wouldn't bother me if they got in. Kent and Sheffield are a bit below them, and I may well undervalue Kent compared to other HOF 2Bmen.
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
After that, I have to decide who to vote for. I have Raines, Biggio, Walker and Trammell all very close together, and I'd vote for Edgar, McGwire and Sheffield too.
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Mike Mussina
Larry Walker
I have Schilling and Smoltz as the 7th and 8th best players. I think Mussina is a bit lower, but I'll put him in because it's hard to differentiate the position players. Finally, I'll choose Walker because he had the best seasons of my 4 options.
In the real election, I'd definitely vote Biggio (to put him over) and Walker (to make sure he stays on) and leave off Smoltz (who is getting in anyway). I'd probably also throw a vote to Raines.
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
McG
Moose
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
(with Smoltz and Mussina at the top of the five or six more guys I wish I could fit in)
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mark McGwire
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Players I would have loved to include include Edgar Martinez, Mark McGwire, Tim Raines, Alan Trammell and Larry Walker, plus consideration for Kent, Mattingly, McGriff, Sheffield and Sosa.
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Jeff Bagwell
Mike Mussina
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
The last couple of cuts were brutal. I can see good arguments for as many as 11 other players, though my line might be around 18-19.
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
P. Martinez
McGwire
Mussina
Piazza
Raines
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
And yes, lots more if there were room.
Bagwell (6)
Bonds (1)
Clemens (2)
Johnson (3)
Martinez (4)
Mussina (7)
Piazza (5)
Raines (9)
Schilling (8)
Walker (10)
Killed me to leave off Smoltz, Trammell, and Biggio - they are all no-doubters for me.
Rest of players I think could be argued for (my cutoff is somewhere in the Kent/Sosa range):
11. Smoltz
12. Trammell
13. Biggio
14. McGwire
15. Martinez
16. Jeff Kent
17. Sammy Sosa
18. Lee Smith
19. Gary Sheffield
20. Nomar Garciaparra
21. Fred McGriff
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Edgar Martinez
Pedro Martinez
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Gary Sheffield
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Also deserving votes: Biggio, Raines, Trammell, McGwire, and Edgar. If enough of those guys got in I'd have to think hard about Sheffield and Sosa, too. Starting to get more confident about a "no" on Kent and McGriff. Wish Lofton, Palmeiro, and Kevin Brown were still around to put up against this crowd.
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Would have voted Biggio as a BBWAA member to try to clear him from the ballot. Biggio, Raines, Mcgwire, Sheffield, Mussina also deserving for sure, perhaps E. Martinez and Sosa as well, leaning towards "no" on Kent.
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
If I was an actual voter, I would probably leave off Bonds and Clemens because there's no way either of them will be elected by the BBWAA, and put Biggio and Trammell in their places. There are lots more guys I view as worthy that I just didn't have room for, but you knew that already.
Someone had to do it.
Ballot
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Tim Raines
Would Also Vote For
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Mike Mussina
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Would Strongly Consider
Jeff Kent
Gary Sheffield
Sammy Sosa
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Sammy Sosa
Also if I could (in no particular order): Smoltz, Schilling, Mussina, Trammell, Sheffield, Walker, Edgar, Kent, and McGriff.
Just curious, what makes you think so? Shoeless Joe for one has been waiting a LONG time...
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
John Smoltz
Alan Trammell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
John Smoltz
Biggio
Johnson
Martinez
Mussina
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Smoltz
Trammell
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
P. Martinez
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Sosa
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Smoltz (postseason) and Raines (missed playing time for strikes and collusion) are my final adds. I'm sure it will shock everyone to hear that I too would vote for a bunch more guys if allowed - Walker, Biggio, Trammell, Edgar, McGwire, Sheffield, and Sosa, at least, and I'd carefully consider arguments for Kent, McGriff, Giles, and Nomar.
BTW, it's probably safe to assume that votes for "Martinez" will be counted as votes for Pedro and you don't have to re-post, but nevertheless, folks should probably specify which Martinez. ;-)
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
If allowed more room:
Biggio
Edgar
Smoltz
Walker
Small Hall person and had a real problem separating Mussina/Smoltz. I'd like to see both in but they were #10/#11 for me.
1. The quality of play has gone up, and there are more teams and more players, so there are more chances for players to post long careers. For those reasons I don't concern myself with past standards for HoFers; I look primarily at where a player stands against his peers. If that means that the baseline for a HoFer goes up, so be it.
2. You have to have a reasonable argument for being at the top of the food chain; just accumulating counting stats isn't good enough. Smoltz and Mussina were very good pitchers for a long time, but they're a long way behind Pedro and Randy.
3. I don't assume that any player whose career covered the time frame from about the mid-1990s on was free of PEDs. I also don't assume any performance boost because of them. But I do assume that PEDs helped players stay on the field longer - and thus I discount players who probably wouldn't have been considered if they'd lost playing time two or three years earlier in their careers, or had their career end prematurely.
Ballot:
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Lee Smith
-- MWE
2. You have to have a reasonable argument for being at the top of the food chain; just accumulating counting stats isn't good enough. Smoltz and Mussina were very good pitchers for a long time, but they're a long way behind Pedro and Randy.
Amen, Rev, let it walk.
Along similar lines, I am assuming that the vote for "McG" in 20 is for McGwire, not McGriff, unless I'm told otherwise.
Barry Bonds
Craig Biggio
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
To think Lee Smith is better than Mussina, Schilling or Smoltz, requires quantities of alcohol I'd rather not contemplate.
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Alan Trammell
If I were actually voting, I'd consider dropping Bonds and Clemens this year and adding Mussina and Biggio as a strategic vote.
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
The only really tough call is taking Smoltz/Walker over Trammell and maybe Raines. They're all pretty close. As with many others, I would elect way more than 10 if I could.
Bagwell
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
Martinez - E.
Martinez - P.
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Though he didn't play in the field, watching Edgar rake would've been like watching Renoir paint.
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Jeff Bagwell
Curt Schilling
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
John Smoltz
EDIT:
This ballot would be totally irresponsible if this vote had any consequences. It's also 100% unsupported by the squishy points listed above it. Poor show.
2. You have to have a reasonable argument for being at the top of the food chain; just accumulating counting stats isn't good enough. Smoltz and Mussina were very good pitchers for a long time, but they're a long way behind Pedro and Randy.
That seems like the living definition of Lee Smith - just among pitchers I'd be interested to see the reasoning behind voting for him but not guys like Mussina/Smoltz and particularly Schilling, who would seem to fit your guidelines to a T (i.e. massive peak guy with a reasonable amount of career to boot).
In addition man, if you open to the door to Smith there's a blizzard of other relievers who should come in with him.
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Edgar Martinez
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Barry Bonds
Fred McGriff
Mark McGwire
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
I think if I had to do this in real life, I'd have to just check the 18 or 19 names and send it in, let the BBWAA do what they like. Or set a bag of dog poo on fire and ring their doorbell. Cutting Clemens was like cutting my own ####### heart out. A sin against the game.
And yes, I obviously voted for the 10 worthy candidates I felt had the most need. If you don't like it, you all are the fake BBWAA, fake change the rules for the fake election.
And I agree with those that are saying that Smith doesn't fit the criteria that Mike states he uses...
Alphabetically:
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Alan Trammell
In the absence of a ballot cap, I would also vote for at least Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sheffield, and Walker, and am on the fence with respect to Kent, E. Martinez, and Sosa. If I was feeling especially generous, in the absence of a ballot cap, I might be willing to consider Delgado, Garciaparra, McGriff, and Smith.
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Brian Giles
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mark McGwire
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
John Smoltz
Sammy Sosa
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Since I have to limit it to 10 ...
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Brian Giles
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Gary Sheffield
Alan Trammell
I left off Pedro and RJ since I'm sure they'll get elected anyway. I dropped Smoltz and Schilling because I like Mussina better and don't think they'll be dropped off the ballot. I like Giles a little better than Sosa, Walker and McGwire and same thing, wouldn't expect them to drop off the ballot.
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Other players I would have voted for with no limit: Edgar Martinez, Mark McGwire, Curt Schilling, Gary Sheffield, Larry Walker
Borderline players I might vote for but aren't in my top ten, so I don't need to make a final decision: Jeff Kent, Brian Giles, Fred McGriff, Sammy Sosa
Player I wanted to vote for because he was one of my favorites, but I can't because he, sadly, wasn't quite good enough: Nomar Garciaparra
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
P. Martinez
Mussina
Piazza
Raines
Smoltz
If I counted right, we have 51 ballots so far. Of those, 50 are full ballots.
Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
P.Martinez
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Smoltz
If I had an unlimited ballot:
E.Martinez
Mussina
Schilling
Sheffield
Sosa
Trammell
Walker
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
Martinez, Pedro
McGwire
Piazza
Raines
Trammell
Anyway, after a few tries I am apparently going to be able to post this.
I'd vote for more if I could... but here's my ten:
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
John Smoltz
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
Pedro
Piazza
Schilling
smoltz
McGwire
Biggio
Mussina
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Trammell
If I had unlimited votes, I would also vote for:
Mussina
Smoltz
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Mike Mussina
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Just out: Biggio and Smoltz.
Jeff Bagwell
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Curt Schilling
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Hey, that gives me a catcher, first baseman, shortstop, left fielder and right fielder along with an outstanding 5-man starting rotation.
If I were allowed to vote for more than 10 I might even be able to complete a starting lineup with the additional players I would vote for, all of whom I think were good enough for HOF enshrinement:
Craig Biggio gives me a second baseman
Edgar Martinez gives me a DH
Mark McGwire - ok, a backup first baseman or DH
Tim Raines - can play some CF as well as LF
Gary Sheffield - ok, he was a lousy defensive 3B, but he still could fill in my last position of the lineup
John Smoltz - he can fill in as an occasional starter on this team and can be the closer as well
So, that's 16 players that I think could be added to the HOF that wouldn't be lowering the quality of players inducted at all. We've got All-Time Greats down to very solid nominees here on this team.
This stacked ballot makes me thankfully to be a member of the Hall of Merit...righting Cooperstown's wrongs since 2002!
19 worthy candidates: Commish Joe D's list plus #18 Edgar and the only borderliner I listed #19 Kent:
Although imperfect, check out Adam's site hallofstats.com, another great resource for baseball history - I have included his BBREF score below:
Jeff Bagwell - 163
Craig Biggio - 126 - poor sabermetric defensive ratings across the board, particularly DRA
Barry Bonds - 359!!!!
Roger Clemens - 291!!!
Brian Giles - 97 - Dan's replacement levels + DRA easily clear the bar for him, could deserve MLE credit too
Randy Johnson - 217!!
Jeff Kent - 102
Edgar Martinez - 134 - outstanding with BBREF, borderline using Dan R's WAR, DRA doesn't move the needle
Pedro Martinez - 185!
Mark McGwire - 123 - aided by Dan's R's peaky system and favorable DRA
Mike Mussina - 162
Mike Piazza - 145 - unadjusted for position
Tim Raines - 127 - excellent Dan R brought down a bit with DRA
Curt Schilling - 170
Gary Sheffield - 114
John Smoltz - 135 - cut in favor of Sheffield, immensely worthy and I could be underrating him
Sammy Sosa - 115 - valuing great 2001 and good to excellent defense (DRA too) makes him a fine candidate
Alan Trammell - 141
Larry Walker - 150 - poor DRA defense drops him
Top 10: All I can say is wow...all-time greats, top 1/3 of Hall of Fame/Merit:
Jeff Bagwell - 163
Barry Bonds - 359!!!!
Roger Clemens - 291!!!
Randy Johnson - 217!!
Pedro Martinez - 185!
Mike Mussina - 162
Mike Piazza - 145
Curt Schilling - 170
Above the median hall line:
Gary Sheffield - 114 - horrible BBREF defense, adequate/mediocre by DRA jives more with his athletic background SS/3B upbringing.
Alan Trammell - 141 - could drop from Top 10 with DRA values below Smoltz.
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
I would like to vote for a bunch more, but ... oh well. And Raines is slightly out of order (not in my top 10), but I have always liked him and think he is worthy so I bumped him up. So sue me.
Mike Emeigh - you addressed Schilling/Mussina/Smoltz, no Bagwell?
And where do you place Hoffman/Wagner when they come on the ballot next year/can you please share your knowledge for these guys so that we can copy the information over to the Hall of Merit thread?
Howie Menckel - who were your last two guys that beat out Schilling/Mussina?
Mark Donelson - good to see you, but we miss you at the Hall of Merit...Garciaparra has some support and could use you too!
Chris Fluit - same question as Howie?
DL from MN - who got the last spot in favor of Mussina?
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Would vote for if I could:
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Mark McGwire
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Sammy Sosa
Larry Walker
And a couple-three other guys, probably.
Bonds
Clemens
Raines
Biggio
Bagwell
Trammell
Schilling
Mussina
Smoltz
Piazza
Of course Johnson and Martinez belong. So do Mac, Sammy, Sheff, Edgar, Walker, and probably Kent and McGriff. I left off the big 2 in order to support others more in need. If that offends the sensibilities of the moderators, feel free to delete/ignore my ballot. i don't know if I would vote that way if I had an actual ballot, but I'd sure like to.
Not objecting to the strategy. Just wondering how you imagine the vote interacting.
Craig Biggio
Randy Johnson
Edgar Martinez
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Larry Walker
Mussina and Trammell would be the other two I would consider. But no space for them.
Yes, Piazza ended up coming in 12th in my system (also behind Biggio).
I was surprised by that and it very well could be serious evidence of a problems with my system... but I simply posted the top 10 I got with that method.
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Alan Trammell
Tim Raines
Mike Mussina
Edgar Martinez
Larry Walker
Craig Biggio
(I'd unhesutatingly vote for the non-borderline 'roiders - Bonds and Clemens - but given that here's such a bad backlog, they can wait at the back of the line while I make room for the guys who didn't provably cheat.)
Bagwell
Bonds
Clemens
Johnson
P.Martinez
Mussina
Schilling
Smoltz
Trammell
Walker
(The ones I WOULD vote for if I could are Raines, E.Martinez, Biggio)
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Larry Walker
Walker's a strategic vote - I'd want to be sure he doesn't fall off the ballot. He feels like the most vulnerable to me of anyone who I think is definitely HoF-worthy. Otherwise, I guess it would go to Schilling, but it doesn't make that much of a difference to him this year.
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
John Smoltz
Sammy Sosa
suspect i am on an island when it comes to smoltz. guy is borderline to me even with the good post season work mostly because i think closers post 1995 had it on easy street.
but if this be the will of the people so be it
Biggio
Piazza
Clemens
P. Martinez
Sosa
R Johnson
but i think his lifetime war has him pegged about right.
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Jeff Bagwell
Mike Mussina
Curt Schilling
John Smoltz
Gary Sheffield
Would also vote for:
Tim Raines
Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez
Sammy Sosa
Brian Giles
Craig Biggio
Jeff Kent
Alan Trammell
Mark McGwire
1. B. Bonds
2. R. Clemens
3. R. Johnson
4. P. Martinez
5. J. Bagwell
6. C. Schilling
7. J. Smoltz
8. M. Mussina
9. T. Raines
10. A. Trammell
Definitely would also vote for:
11. C. Biggio
12. L. Walker
13. E. Martinez
Wavering...and ultimately no for now
14. M. McGwire
15. G Sheffield
16. J. Kent
17. S. Sosa
Yes, In Memorium
Lou Whitaker
Kevin Brown
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Edgar Martinez
Pedro Martinez
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Jeff Bagwell
Craig Biggio
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Clemens
Randy
Pedro
Smoltz
Schilling
Mussina
Biggio
Bagwell
Piazza
Randy Johnson
Mike Piazza
Tim Raines
Craig Biggio
John Smoltz
Fred McGriff
Jeff Kent
Alan Trammall
Curt Schilling
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