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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Monday, November 20, 2017Mock 2018 Modern Baseball Committee Hall of Fame Ballot ResultsBBTF elects Alan Trammell in our mock Modern Baseball Committee 2018 election Player Name Percent TOTALS Alan Trammell 94% 61 Marvin Miller 68% 44 Ted Simmons 62% 40 Luis Tiant 40% 26 Tommy John 26% 17 Dale Murphy 14% 9 Jack Morris 8% 5 Dave Parker 6% 4 Don Mattingly 2% 1 Steve Garvey 0% 0 Number of Voters 65 |
BookmarksYou must be logged in to view your Bookmarks. Hot TopicsMost Meritorious Player: 1936 Discussion
(20 - 11:07pm, Mar 04) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1935 Results (3 - 7:30pm, Mar 03) Last: Qufini Most Meritorious Player: 1935 Ballot (11 - 4:04pm, Mar 03) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1935 Discussion (37 - 1:42pm, Mar 03) Last: John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy 2022 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (145 - 8:27pm, Feb 16) Last: Dr. Chaleeko Mark Teixeira, Justin Morneau and Prince Fielder (6 - 9:15pm, Feb 15) Last: puck Newt Allen (20 - 12:26pm, Feb 04) Last: Carl Goetz Most Meritorious Player: 1934 Discussion (18 - 11:51am, Feb 04) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1934 Results (1 - 6:14pm, Feb 03) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1934 Ballot (10 - 4:59pm, Feb 03) Last: DL from MN Jimmy Rollins (11 - 2:32pm, Jan 29) Last: Carl Goetz David Ortiz (53 - 11:37pm, Jan 28) Last: SoSH U at work 2021 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (651 - 1:45pm, Jan 25) Last: Bleed the Freak Jason Giambi (5 - 11:17pm, Jan 22) Last: The Honorable Ardo Hank Aaron (178 - 5:04pm, Jan 22) Last: Bourbon Samurai stays in the fight |
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1. DL from MN Posted: November 20, 2017 at 02:15 PM (#5578868)And thanks DL for doing all this.
There were a couple people (myself included) who mentioned that we were inclined to vote for Miller had it not been for him asking not to be inducted posthumously.
Free agency is the most significant institutional change to MLB since integration. If you're against recognition for off-field contributions generally, then I can see exclusion of Miller on the merits (he never donned a uniform). But he had a historically significant impact on MLB, both good and bad.
Final comment: the support for the pitchers on the ballot (John, Morris, Tiant) was interesting to me. The final results got it right, IMHO:
Tiant (40%) >> John (26%) >>> Morris (8%)
But I was really surprised by the number of ballots that included Morris but not Tiant. In my mind, it's defensible to say that none are worthy (i.e., small Hall argument) or even that all are worthy (i.e., large Hall argument). But I have a hard time wrapping my head around an evaluation that ranks Morris ahead of Tiant, including their respective BBWAA vote totals. That is, I'm not convinced that Morris isn't a HOFer (or that Tiant is, for that matter), but there's no doubt in my mind that Tiant is far more deserving than Morris.
Fun exercise. Thanks for putting it together, DL.
For a 5-second span I was influenced by your stance on this and took him off my ballot, but I think the point is that it is not for him, but for future acknowledgement and knowledge that he should be included, so I kept him on. I kinda don't care what he wanted or why, he's dead now.
For me I just figured that this was only a mock ballot, and since our votes have no actual impact on whether or not he gets elected, his wishes not to be inducted posthumously didn't really apply.
YMMV, of course.
That was my rationale for voting for Trammell but not Miller.
Maybe it makes no sense, though, given that the Hall is what it is, and Bowie Kuhn is already in it. But I'll give the principle a few times round the block to see what I think of it.
What's pretty obvious (as many have said) is that players and ancillaries shouldn't mix on a veteran's ballot at all. It's just distracting.
I was one of the three.
I can see that perspective, but for me it was kind of like this...
Me: Well, it looks like your time is almost up, Mr. Miller. Is there anything I can do for you to help your transition into being one of the unliving?
Miller: Don't put me in the HOF! I don't want it.
Me: Well, I don't know, that's kind of asking a lot of me isn't?
Miller: How so? I'm tired of being screwed around. I wish to have no association with them.
Me: Jeez, Mr. Miller, I think you've lost perspective on this. No, I'm afraid I'm going to have to put you in the Hall of Fame, despite you not wanting to be in there.
Miller: Why the #### did you ask me if there was anything you could do for me, if you weren't going to do anything for me? What kind of perverse freak does stuff like that? All you have to do is not try to get me in there. It's like this DNR on my chart. Let it go, don't work at it. You don't have to do anything!
Me: I mean, if you had wanted me to put a pillow behind your head, or sneak you in a grilled cheese sandwich or something, I would have done that. But...what you're asking...just can't do it. Sorry. Do you want me to get you a Slurpee?
*Just taking a quick look at inductees, I could live with it if they hadn't inducted an MLB executive since Rickey in 1967.
Much of it is also due to the player leadership that came to the fore at that time, and much of it is also due to the timing of when Miller came along.
The MLBPA could not have become the force that it became 10 years earlier, or 10 years later; it required the general societal unrest of the 60s to create the necessary leadership among the players - which in turn allowed Miller to be an effective leader of the players. Miller's primary contribution was in educating the player leadership, and through them the rank-and-file, on the value of taking a position that benefited the players as a whole rather than focusing on their own individual situations, and in sticking to it even in the face of pressure by individual owners on the players they controlled.
The reason I don't support Miller for the HoF is that Miller didn't really have any "skin in the game", so to speak - he wasn't putting his career on the line, and had the MLBPA not worked out he could have gone back to the USW. The players were putting everything on the line - some saw their careers come to unceremonious ends due to their labor activity - and they deserve much more of the credit for what happened than did Miller, IMO.
-- MWE
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