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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Friday, December 10, 2021Mock 2022 Hall of Fame Election ResultsBBTF would elect Roger Clemens, Scott Rolen, Barry Bonds and Gary Sheffield to the Hall of Fame Player Name Votes Percent Roger Clemens 39 92.9% Scott Rolen 39 92.9% Barry Bonds 38 90.5% Gary Sheffield 33 78.6% ------------------------------------ Alex Rodriguez 31 73.8% Curt Schilling 31 73.8% Todd Helton 29 69.0% Manny Ramirez 27 64.3% David Ortiz 26 61.9% Sammy Sosa 24 57.1% Andruw Jones 18 42.9% Jeff Kent 14 33.3% Bobby Abreu 12 28.6% Tim Hudson 9 21.4% Mark Buehrle 8 19.0% Andy Pettitte 8 19.0% Billy Wagner 5 11.9% ---------------------------------- Joe Nathan 1 2.4% Jake Peavy 1 2.4% AJ Pierzynski 1 2.4% Jimmy Rollins 1 2.4% Carl Crawford 0 0.0% Prince Fielder 0 0.0% Ryan Howard 0 0.0% Torii Hunter 0 0.0% Tim Lincecum 0 0.0% Justin Morneau 0 0.0% Jonathan Papelbon 0 0.0% Mark Teixeira 0 0.0% Omar Vizquel 0 0.0% votes 395 voters 42 |
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1. DL from MN Posted: December 10, 2021 at 01:16 PM (#6056895)BBTF has elected Bonds and Clemens every year since 2015, Rolen since 2019
Schilling had been elected every year since 2016 but dropped off
Manny was elected 2020-21, Helton last year. This is the first time we have elected Sheffield.
Is Sheffield the 6th best player on the ballot? I'm not sure I'd say that, but he definitely is in that conversation.
Per Wikipedia:
"On July 30, 2009, The New York Times, citing anonymous sources, reported that Ortiz was among a group of over 100 major league players on a list compiled by federal investigators, that allegedly tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs during Major League Baseball survey testing conducted in spring training of 2003...
"On August 8, 2009, Ortiz held a press conference before a game at Yankee Stadium and denied ever buying or using steroids [...] On the same day, both Major League Baseball and the Major League Baseball Players Association issued statements pointing out that because of several factors, any player appearing on the list compiled by federal investigators in 2003 did not necessarily test positive for performance-enhancing drugs. Among those factors were that the total number of players said to be on the list far exceeded the number of collected specimens that tested positive. In addition, there were questions raised regarding the lab that performed the testing and their interpretation of the positive tests. Also, the statement pointed out that certain legal supplements that were available over the counter at the time could cause a positive test result.
"On October 2, 2016 at a press conference at Fenway Park, MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred said it was "entirely possible" Ortiz did not test positive during the MLB survey drug testing in 2003. The commissioner stated that the alleged failed test should not harm Ortiz's legacy, and that there were "legitimate scientific questions about whether or not those were truly positives". Manfred added "Those particular tests were inconclusive because "it was hard to distinguish between certain substances that were legal, available over the counter, and not banned under our program." He also said "Ortiz has never been a positive at any point under our program" since MLB began testing in 2004 and that it is unfair for Hall of Fame voters to consider "leaks, rumors, innuendo and non-confirmed positive test results" when assessing a player."
The weight of evidence against Bonds is staggering and meticulously documented. Game of Shadows gives a good overview.
The 'evidence' against Ortiz is the one test - and I think the line "the total number of players said to be on the list far exceeded the number of collected specimens that tested positive" says everything we need to know about the validity of that 'evidence.'
“Hiya kids. Here is an important message from your Uncle Bill. Don't buy drugs. Become a pop star, and they give you them for free.”
Saying you never bought drugs doesn’t really say anything.
Naah, everybody who was big and hit home runs is guilty! Guilty, I says...!
"Saying you never bought drugs doesn’t really say anything."
As Norman Mailer said at the trial of the Chicago 8: "Facts, sir, are nothing without their nuance."
Now, I'm probably not going to have Ortiz on my 2023 ballot - or if I do, he's not going to receive a very high place. But that's a reflection of lack of games played in the field, not on supposed 'roid use.
To argue that "saying you didn't do something is meaningless" is the same as saying, "Everyone who's accused of somethng is guilty and can't be proven innocent."
I refer you back to post 8. The actual, incontrovertible evidence that Ortiz took 'roids' is zero - and there's a certain amount of evidence pointing to the likelihood that he didn't.
Just sayin'.
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