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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Monday, December 18, 2017Mock Hall of Fame Ballot 2018IMPORTANT: Please read: This election should follow BBWAA rules, not Hall of Merit rules. However, we hope to see only players that each voter feels belong on their ballots. Leaving 1st-year candidates off your ballot is also frowned upon. IOW, we would like to see an absence of some of the silliness that permeates Hall of Fame voting by the writers. The election will end Friday on December 22, 2017 (1 PM EST). Results will be posted a short time later. Please don’t post any vote tallies on this thread. Here are some of the rules by the BBWAA that pertain to our electorate: 3. Eligible Candidates — Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements: A. A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election. 4. Method of Election A. BBWAA Screening Committee — A Screening Committee consisting of baseball writers will be appointed by the BBWAA. This Screening Committee shall consist of six members, with two members to be elected at each Annual Meeting for a three-year term. The duty of the Screening Committee shall be to prepare a ballot listing in alphabetical order eligible candidates who (1) received a vote on a minimum of five percent (5%) of the ballots cast in the preceding election or (2) are eligible for the first time and are nominated by any two of the six members of the BBWAA Screening Committee. 5. Voting — Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played. Voting an alphabetical ballot will make it easier to tally votes Here are the players, in alphabetical order: Barry Bonds |
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1. DL from MN Posted: December 18, 2017 at 11:10 AM (#5594301)Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Johan Santana
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Vlad Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Would vote for him if there was space:
Andruw Jones
Jeff Kent
Fred McGriff
Scott Rolen
Johan Santana
Gary Sheffield
Larry Walker
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Johan Santana
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
As I typed my list, I see that great minds think alike. That being said, I picked Santana over Vlad and Manny simply because his peak is so high, and over Andruw because I just don't believe the defensive numbers that drive his WAA - but I wouldn't quibble if someone picked one of them over Johan.
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Jim Thome
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Edgar Martinez
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Man - that started to get hard at 17, and became damn near impossible by twelve. I can't swear I'd make the same cuts tomorrow - too many "obviously yes"es.
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
With unlimited room, would add in this order:
Gary Sheffield
Andruw Jones
Jeff Kent
Fred McGriff
Trevor Hoffman
Billy Wagner
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Johan Santana
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
I'd have 13-18 players over my personal HOF line if there were no ballot limit.
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
That was difficult. My first cut had 16 names on it and the last name to get dropped -- after quite a bit of thought -- was Sheffield.
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Would also vote for:
Vladimir Guerrero
Trevor Hoffman
Manny Ramirez
Johan Santana
Gary Sheffield
Billy Wagner
Maybe Andrew Jones
The hardest for me was Vlad vs Kent vs Sheff.
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Aka the SoSH U ballot
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens (94.6 WAA)
Trevor Hoffman (13.7 WAA)
Chipper Jones (85.0 WAA)
Edgar Martinez (38.5 WAA)
Mike Mussina (48.6 WAA)
Scott Rolen (43.9 WAA)
Curt Schilling (54.1 WAA)
Jim Thome (37.5 WAA)
Larry Walker (48.2 WAA)
Would vote for if there was room:
Andruw Jones (36.0 WAA)
Manny Ramirez (35.6 WAA)
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Sheffield was the toughest omission.
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Would support if had room: Vladimir Guerrero, Manny Ramirez
Would support if I had trust in outfield defensive statistics: Andruw Jones
Can't really make up mind: Johan Santana
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
That could have gone a lot of different ways. Ask me again tomorrow and different guys might make the cut.
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
As nearly everyone else has said, I would be comfortable with a ballot of at least a dozen here, maybe more. And that's with things having thinned out enough that I'm no longer left deciding between Edgar and Walker for the last spot.
Guerrero
C. Jones
Kent
Martinez
Mussina
Rolen
Schilling
Thome
Walker
Wagner
My "I enjoyed watching you play" vote would go to Livan Hernandez, or Miguel Batista if he hadn't been left off the ballot.
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Larry Jones is clearly qualified and deserving - I'm leaving him off out of Mets fan spite.
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Jim Thome
Billy Wagner
This is based on what I would prefer the HoF to be, without regard to what it is. If that means that good players from this era get left out, so be it - I don't think the choices of the past should dictate how we approach it in the present.
Even with my standard post-age-35 PED discount for players of this era, Thome looks comfortably in (surprisingly to me). His numbers through age 34 stack up favorably to Killebrew and Schmidt, so that even a normal 3-4 year decline phase after the age-35 injury gets him over 500 HR with 140-range OPS.
Wagner was the second-best long term reliever behind Mo in this era. Hoffman hung around longer, which is why he got the save record and Wagner didn't.
-- MWE
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Vladimir Guerrero
Scott Rolen
R Clemens
A Jones
C Jones
E Martinez
M Mussina
S Rolen
C Schilling
J Thome
L Walker
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
If I could:
Larry Walker
Edgar Martinez*
Scott Rolen
Jeff Kent
Agnostic:
Fred McGriff
Andruw Jones
It hurts, but no:
Johan Santana
Just plain no:
Everyone else
* I'd find a way to fit him in were I a real voter since he's so close, but it seems pointless to do strategic voting on a mock ballot.
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Something of a purely aesthetic preference for all-round players, though on that score I am not totally sure Thome is a much better pick than Manny Ramirez. Maybe I'd vote Manny if I could list eleven.
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
I'd vote for
Manny Ramirez
but he got busted for cheating.
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
And #11
Scott Rolen
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Andruw Jones
Chipper Jones
Mike Mussina
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Vladimir Guerrero
Scott Rolen
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Jeff Kent
Edgar Martinez
Manny Ramirez
Gary Sheffield
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
If I could:
#11 - Sammy Sosa
#12 - Scott Rolen
Also considered:
Jeff Kent
Gary Sheffield
Trevor Hoffman
Billy Wagner
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Mike Mussina
Curt Schilling
Larry Walker
Jim Thome
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Vladimir Guerrero
Would if I could:
Andruw Jones
Edgar Martinez
Gary Sheffield
Fred McGriff
Notable 'No's:
Sammy Sosa
Jeff Kent
Johan Santana
Johnny Damon
Omar Vizquel
Trevor Hoffman
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
I had a consideration set of 19 and whittled down from there. The last cut was Manny...
Roger Clemens(2)
Chipper Jones (5)
Edgar Martinez (8)
Mike Mussina (4)
Manny Ramirez (7)
Scott Rolen (10)
Curt Schilling (3)
Jim Thome (6)
Larry Walker (9)
If possible, I would also vote for:
11. Gary Sheffield
12. Sammy Sosa
13. Andruw Jones
14. Johan Santana
I wouldn't vote for, but they're close enough:
15. Jeff Kent
16. Vladimir Guerrero
Everyone else I have clearly below the line.
Clemens
Guerrero
Hoffman
C Jones
Martinez
Mussina
Schilling
Sosa
Walker
If I had room
Kent
Ramirez
Rolen
Sheffield
Thome
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Fred McGriff
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Larry Walker
Thome is No. 11. I also like Santana, Sosa and Sheffield, but not enough to say I'd vote for them if I had room.
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Kiko in post 9, I'm surprised Manny Ramirez isn't making your ballot, Player Win-Loss records numbers show him as super elite.
C Jones
McGriff
Mussina
Rolen
Santana
Schilling
Thome
Vizquel
Walker
To be honest, I'm holding his failed steroid tests against him. I was especially put off with the way he left the Rays in the lurch by abruptly retiring rather than serving out his second suspension.
With no limits, he's easily in the "13 ... players over my personal HOF line if there were no ballot limit". But if I have to cut (at least) 3 guys anyway, I'm holding the failed tests / crappy retirement against him. FYI: Edgar is taking his slot. If I had a real ballot, I might also drop another guy and slide Vlad onto the ballot since he's so close to election and he meets my standard. If I did that, I'd probably drop Sheffield as my lowest ranked guy who's neither making progress toward election (Edgar, Vlad) nor in danger of dropping off the ballot entirely (Johan). For this exercise, I decided to just go with my top 10 minus the deductions for Manny.
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Andruw Jones
Chipper Jones
Mike Mussina
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
With no ballot limit:
Scott Rolen
Gary Sheffield
And possibly:
Andruw Jones
Jeff Kent
Johan Santana
Sammy Sosa
Billy Wagner
Were I an actual voter, I'd substitute Rolen for either Vlad or Larry Walker to help him survive.
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
1. Vladimir Guerrero
2. Chipper Jones
3. Jim Thome
4. Edgar Martinez
5. Curt Schilling
6. Billy Wagner (While he had a shorter career than Hoffman, he has WAY better numbers)
7. Johan Santana (Surprised that he's doing so well at BBTF) (Triple Crown pitcher, 9 straight 129 ERA+ seasons. For a five year period he was lights out)
8. Jamie Moyer (269 wins, and having a 20 and 6 record during the Mariners 116 win season deserves a vote)
9. Johnny Damon (Pivotal part of the Red Sox 2004 World Series. 56 WAR, 2769 hits, 1668 runs. This deserves a vote by someone)
10. Hideki Matsui (World Series MVP. Yeah, I'm including his Japan time, but oh well)
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Sheffield is #11 and Guerrero is #12. They both belong. I'd also consider voting for Andruw, Sosa, Santana, Kent, and maybe McGriff, but I'm not beaten up about any of them missing out.
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
I think
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Clemens
Jones, Chipper
Guerrero
Martinez
Mussina
Rolen
Schilling
Thome
Walker
Others I would vote for with no ballot limit: Kent, Ramirez, Sheffield
Others I would maybe vote for with no ballot limit: Damon, Andruw Jones, Sosa
Thome never felt like a hall of famer to me, but 600 home runs is hard to argue with. I also didn't realize how long his career was until I looked at his numbers. He broke in at 20 and played into his 40's. Ramirez is clearly one of the ten best players by the numbers, but if I'm going to have to cut someone, I'm fine looking at the character clause. He also had that incident where he pushed the Red Sox traveling secretary (or someone like that) in addition to the steroid drama.
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Gary Sheffield
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Would Have Voted For
Vladimir Guerrero (although if I was a writer, strategically knowing he was 15 votes short last year, the narrative, the uniqueness of his style a vote would be better served elsewhere, he would seem to be one where other writers might add just to "contribute" to getting someone elected, I might pass anyway)
Scott Rolen
Sammy Sosa
Could be Convinced
Andruw Jones
Jeff Kent
Johan Santana
If Japanese Stats were taken at (near) face value
Hideki Matsui
Sentimental Favorite
Fred McGriff (how would voters react to him if there had never been a strike?)
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Trevor Hoffman
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Hoffman's case isn't strong. His reputation is excessively enhanced because when Mariano Rivera became a consensus Hall of Famer, Hoffman was still ahead of him in Saves. However, in real life I'm not cruel enough to bar a player with an arguable case who came within 5 votes last year. I don't think the voters are, either. Sosa is also borderline, but he's 9th in HRs, 29th in RBI, is an average HoF RFer by JAWS, has Thome as his most comparable player, and the rest of his Top 10 all HoFers & Sheffield, who I'd probably vote for without a 10-vote cap. Walker, Wagner, Rolen, and maybe Kent also make an unlimited ballot.
Mike Mussina
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Billy Wagner
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Roger Clemens
Vladimir Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Jeff Kent
Manny Ramirez
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Barry Bonds
Roger Clemens
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Manny Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Curt Schilling
Jim Thome
Larry Walker
Sorry Gary Sheffield. I think you deserve it; baseball-wise anyway (as both a Redsox and Brewers fan I can't stand you)
Clemens
Jones, Chipper
Martinez, Edgar
Mussina
Ramirez
Schilling
Sheffield
Thome
Walker
Biggest regrets: Kent and Guerrero
Chipper Jones
Edgar Martinez
Mike Mussina
Curt Schilling
Sammy Sosa
Jim Thome
Billy Wagner
Larry Walker
Maybe later:
Trevor Hoffman
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