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Wednesday, September 08, 2021

Most Meritorious Player: 1894 Discussion

No World Series yet so no postseason consideration.

Player			BBR WAR
Billy Hamilton		8.2
Hugh Duffy		6.8
Joe Kelley		6.5
Bill Joyce		5.2
Lave Cross		5.0
Bill Dahlen		4.6
Ed Delahanty		6.0
Hughie Jennings		4.8
George Davis		5.4
Sam Thompson		5.3
Mike Griffin		4.5
John McGraw		4.9
Cupid Childs		4.4
Jake Beckley		4.0
Jake Stenzel		4.6
Dan Brouthers		3.9
Willie Keeler		3.5
Jesse Burkett		3.3
Jack Doyle		3.9
Elmer Smith		4.0

Frank Grant		No statistics

Amos Rusie		13.7
Jouett Meekin		10.8
Ted Breitenstein	9.3
Cy Young		9.5
George Hemming		6.5
Kid Nichols		8.0
Pink Hawley		6.2
Win Mercer		4.8
Clark Griffith		6.2
Frank Dwyer		4.6
Jack Taylor		5.6
Sadie McMahon		6.1
Jock Menefee		4.4
Jack Stivetts		5.0
Red Ehret		4.5
Ed Stein		4.3
Kid Gleason		4.2
George Cuppy		4.2


DL from MN Posted: September 08, 2021 at 11:48 AM | 14 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: September 08, 2021 at 12:09 PM (#6038680)
1894 Prelim

1) Amos Rusie - by a mile
2) Billy Hamilton
3) Jouett Meekin - 2 and 3 are basically tied. Never heard of this guy before
4) Hugh Duffy
5) Joe Kelley
6) Lave Cross - terrific glove, 16 games at catcher
7) Bill Joyce
8) Ted Breitenstein
9) Bill Dahlen
10) Ed Delahanty

11-15) Cy Young, Hughie Jennings, Frank Grant, George Davis, George Hemming

I have a value set on Frank Grant that I'll give him every year 1893-1897. At that point he should be headed down the aging curve.
   2. DL from MN Posted: September 08, 2021 at 05:06 PM (#6038750)
At the end of the 1894 season William Temple, president of the Pittsburgh Pirates, proposed that a postseason series be played between the top two finishers in the National League. He donated an $800 cup, the Temple Cup, to be awarded to the winner of the best-of seven-series. The Baltimore Orioles had won the pennant, with the Giants second. Sparked by the pitching of Rusie and Jouett Meekin, the Giants swept the Temple Cup series in four straight games. The Hoosier Thunderbolt (Rusie) won Games One and Three by identical scores of 4-1, giving up only two runs, one of which was unearned, for an ERA of 0.50. Meekin pitched a shutout in Game Two, winning 9-0, and wrapped up the series by winning Game Four, 16-3. Both pitchers threw complete games in their starts; no other Giants pitchers appeared in the series.
   3. DL from MN Posted: September 08, 2021 at 05:22 PM (#6038760)
Looks like those Temple Cup games are not included in the 1894 stats.
   4. DL from MN Posted: September 09, 2021 at 09:57 AM (#6038894)
The foul strike rule was first adopted by the National League in 1901 as a response to some players (most notoriously Roy Thomas) developing the ability to foul off pitch after pitch to force a walk. Rulesmakers thought that this upset the balance between hitting and pitching. It was also disruptive because umpires normally had only two game balls at a time, and balls fouled off into the stands had to be retrieved from spectators. The foul strike rule was adopted to penalize players for hitting too many fouls. The American League did not adopt the foul strike league immediately, and the rules difference probably contributed to higher offense in the AL than NL in 1901 and 1902. The AL adopted the rule as part of the NL/AL peace agreement in the 1902-3 off-season.

This is why pitcher strikeout rates are lower than walk rates in 1894. To get a strikeout the batter had to miss the ball three times.
   5. MrC. Posted: September 09, 2021 at 10:21 AM (#6038896)
1894 preliminary ballot

1. Amos Rusie 10.73 WARR
2. Jouett Meekin 9.43 WARR
3. Billy Hamilton 8.84 WARR
4. Kid Nichols 8.44 WARR
5. Ted Brietenstein 8.39 WARR
6. Cy Young 8.18 WARR
7. Hugh Duffy 7.58 WARR
8. Ed Delahanty 7.26 WARR
9. Joe Kelley 7.21 WARR
10. John McGraw 5.48 WARR

Rest of top 15
11. George Cuppy
12. Pink Hawley
13. Hughie Jennings
14. Bill Dahlen
15. Clark Griffith
   6. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: September 09, 2021 at 03:40 PM (#6038949)

1) Amos Rusie
2) Jouett Meekin
3) Cy Young
4) Kid Nichols
5) Ted Breitenstein
6) Hugh Duffy
7) Billy Hamilton
8) Joe Kelley
9) Bill Dahlen
10) Bill Joyce
   7. bjhanke Posted: September 13, 2021 at 04:32 AM (#6039388)
I agree with not considering the Temple Cup. The idea just plain never worked, because if the season winner wins the Cup, so what? We expected that. And if the #2 finisher wins, then you have a split pennant and everybody complains.

And then there were the constant rumors that the teams had agreed to just split the money pot and so weren't really trying their hardest.
   8. kcgard2 Posted: September 13, 2021 at 06:43 PM (#6039526)
1894 prelim

1) Amos Rusie
2) Billy Hamilton
3) Jouett Meekin
4) Hugh Duffy
5) Cy Young
6) Kid Nichols
7) Ted Breitenstein
8) Joe Kelley
9) Ed Delahanty
10) George Davis

11-15) Pink Hawley, Bill Joyce, Lave Cross, Hughie Jennings, John McGraw
   9. DL from MN Posted: September 21, 2021 at 09:02 AM (#6040656)
Upcoming election schedule. November 1 - 2021 MMP, December - HOM election, January we'll get back into the 1890s with 1895. We'll still finish with MMP elections by June.
   10. kcgard2 Posted: October 02, 2021 at 08:19 AM (#6042958)
DL, no Kid Nichols even in your top 15 at all? Behind George Hemming? I really think it must be an oversight, there's no way...
   11. DL from MN Posted: October 03, 2021 at 09:25 PM (#6043419)
Nichols put up a ton of very average innings, lots of unearned runs. 6.81 RA9 versus an opponents RA9 of 7.23
   12. MrC. Posted: October 05, 2021 at 04:13 PM (#6043757)

A question which I probably should have asked before this. How can a league have a 7.68 RA and at the same time have an OPPRA of 7.39? Shouldn't every run scored also be a run given up by the opposition?
   13. DL from MN Posted: October 06, 2021 at 09:21 AM (#6043939)
Is one of them removing pitchers from the calculation?
   14. MrC. Posted: October 06, 2021 at 11:38 AM (#6043973)
I don't think so. I am looking at the 1894 pitcher value page at baseball reference. The total runs given up matches the runs scored on the batter's page; which gives us a league RA of 7.68. In the next column it shows the league oppRA of 7.39. They say on the site that the oppRA is park adjusted, but I would think that a combined park adjustment for all teams should be close to 1 so I don't see how that would that much difference in the two numbers. I really don't think it will change the order of things on my ballot, but it confuses me (some people would say that isn't hard to do).

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