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Friday, May 06, 2022

Most Meritorious Player: 1899 Discussion

No World Series yet so no postseason consideration.

Player			BBR WAR
John McGraw		8.0
Ed Delahanty		8.0
Jimmy Williams		6.9
Chick Stahl		5.6
Jesse Burkett		5.8
Honus Wagner		5.8
Bobby Wallace		5.5
George Davis		4.9
Joe Kelley		4.5
Willie Keeler		4.8
Napoleon Lajoie		3.8
Tom Daly		4.6
Roy Thomas		4.9
Bill Dahlen		4.6
Fred Tenney		5.3
Jake Beckley		4.6
Lave Cross		3.6
Ed McFarland		4.0
Jimmy Collins		3.9
Kip Selbach		3.7
Jimmy Sheckard		3.6
Elmer Flick		4.2
Mike Grady		3.2
Ginger Beaumont		3.4
Duke Farrell		3.1
Dan McGann		3.6
Fred Clarke		4.4
Bill Keister		3.7
Bill Lange		3.5
Buck Freeman		3.5
Ducky Holmes		2.9

Frank Grant		6 games of statistics, 94 OPS+
Grant Johnson		4 games of statistics, 274 OPS+

Pitcher
Vic Willis		10.4
Cy Young		8.4
Jesse Tannehill		7.7
Noodles Hahn		8.4
Jay Hughes		7.4
Joe McGinnity		9.1
Frank Kitson		8.4
Cy Seymour		4.6
Sam Leever		6.4
Jack Powell		6.2
Kid Nichols		7.3
Clark Griffith		4.4
Brickyard Kennedy	5.2
Deacon Phillipe 	4.3

 

DL from MN Posted: May 06, 2022 at 03:18 PM | 9 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. DL from MN Posted: May 06, 2022 at 03:30 PM (#6075563)
1899 prelim ballot

1) John McGraw - a combination of the 2nd best bat, great glove and scarcity at 3B makes him a runaway choice
2) Ed Delahanty - best bat
3) Jimmy Williams
4) Vic Willis - best pitcher
5) Chick Stahl
6) Jesse Tannehill
7) Cy Young - receives a vote in the most seasons among pitchers
8) Jesse Burkett
9) Noodles Hahn
10) Honus Wagner

11-15) Bobby Wallace, George Davis, Joe Kelley, Grant Johnson, Jay Hughes
16-20) Willie Keeler, Napoleon Lajoie, Tom Daly, Frank Grant, Bill Dahlen
   2. DL from MN Posted: May 06, 2022 at 03:32 PM (#6075565)
Grant Johnson could be the best SS in baseball this season but we'll never know. He is in a group with Wallace and Davis on my ballot. Honus Wagner is playing mostly outfield.
   3. Harmon Ripkowski Posted: May 07, 2022 at 11:57 PM (#6075730)
1899 prelim ballot

By and large, I'm not sure of a lot of these rankings. I could end up moving a bunch of them up or down...

1 - John McGraw
2 - Vic Willis
3 - Ed Delahanty
4 - Noodles Hahn
5 - Jimmy Williams

6 - Chick Stahl
7 - Jay Hughes
8 - Fred Tenney
9 - Jesse Burkett
10 - Bobby Wallace

The rest, in what order I have right now, are Cy Young, Joe McGinnity, Kid Nichols, Roy Thomas, Tom Daly, Honus Wagner, Frank Kitson, Jesse Tannehill, Ed McFarland, and George Davis.
   4. kcgard2 Posted: May 08, 2022 at 07:51 PM (#6075819)
1899 prelim:

1) John McGraw - agree, pretty easy #1
2) Ed Delahanty
3) Vic Willis - best pitcher
4) Jimmy Williams
5) Cy Young
6) Jesse Burkett - it's very bunched up here in the middle
7) Chick Stahl
8) Noodles Hahn
9) Honus Wagner
10) Joe McGinnity - any of the four pitchers could have gone here, or 10-13 could have flip-flopped with 7-10

11-16) Frank Kitson, Kid Nichols, Jesse Tannehill, Fred Tenney, Bobby Wallace, Roy Thomas
   5. DL from MN Posted: May 09, 2022 at 01:16 PM (#6075877)
Last season at 12 teams before the 1900 contraction. The famous horrible season for the Cleveland Spiders.
   6. HAWK Posted: May 12, 2022 at 08:24 PM (#6076499)

1) Ed Delahanty – 8.0 WAR, 189 OPS+, .410 BA, 238 hits, 137 RBI, Best hitter, excellent fielder
2) Vic Willis – 10.0 WAR, 27 Wins, 165 ERA+, 3.75 FIP
3) Jimmy Williams – 6.9 WAR, 158 OPS+, 220 hits, 116 RBI, Best non-outfield hitter
4) John McGraw – 8.0 WAR, 168 OPS+, excellent fielder
5) Bobby Wallace – 5.5 WAR, 120 OPS+, 108 RBI, 12 HR, excellent fielder
6) Honus Wagner – 5.8 WAR, 145 OPS+, 114 RBI
7) Cy Young – 8.3 WAR, 26 Wins, 154 ERA+, 3.10 FIP, excellent fielding pitcher
8) Joe McGinnity – 8.4 WAR, 28 Wins, 148 ERA+, 3.61 FIP
9) Jay Hughes – 7.9 WAR, 28 Wins, 145 ERA+, 3.89 FIP, Regular Season Champion
10) Jesse Burkett – 5.8 WAR, 162 OPS+, 221 hits

11) Chick Stahl – 5.6 WAR, 142 OPS+
12) Willie Keeler – 4.8 WAR, 138 OPS+, 216 hits, Regular Season Champion
13) Jesse Tannehill – 8.2 WAR, 24 Wins, 135 ERA+, 3.31 FIP
14) George Davis – 4.9 WAR, Best fielding shortstop, 126 OPS+
15) Fred Tenney – 5.3 WAR, 124 OPS+, 209 hits
16) Noodles Hahn – 7.7 WAR, 145 ERA+, 2.88 FIP
17) Bill Dahlen – 4.6 WAR, 116 OPS+, excellent fielder, Regular Season Champion
18) Jimmy Collins – 3.9 WAR, 140 OPS+, excellent fielder
19) Nap Lajoie – 3.8 WAR, 169 OPS+, excellent fielder
20) Lave Cross – 3.6 WAR, Best fielding 3rd Baseman, 95 OPS+

   7. bjhanke Posted: May 16, 2022 at 03:39 AM (#6076945)
This is Brock Hanke’s ballot for 1899. As usual, it’s a list of Win Shares. The season itself has oddities, one of which is that only one team played the entire 154-game schedule. Eleven teams played 147-152 games. Take a minute to guess which one is the twelfth. Did you guess the Cleveland Spiders? That fiasco of a team went 20-134, which you all know about. But, moving games from Cleveland to other parks, and being so bad that they were an almost-automatic victory, the Spiders were apparently a top-end draw, so they played the entire schedule. Which does make some sense. You don’t have to travel to play them; they will come to you. And you’re going to win. Fans will be happy. Why would you want to skip a game like that? You would not, so the Spiders played 154, and no one else did.

Enough fun. Here’s my list. It has no Spiders on it. The best player on the Spiders was a pitcher with 9 Win Shares. The next best was another pitcher, who had 6:

1. Ed Delahanty (41)
2. Vic Willis (39)
3. Cy Yung (35)
4. Joe McGinnity (35)
5. John McGraw (34)
6. Jay Hughes (33) The best player on Brooklyn, who won 101 games. Managed by Ned Hanlon, with Keeler, Dahlen and Kelley on it.
7. Chick Stahl (32)
8. Jimmy Williams (32)
9. Kid Nichols (31)
10. Frank Kitson (31)
   8. Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Posted: May 30, 2022 at 08:26 PM (#6079111)
Final ballot-please move it from the discussion thread into the 1899 ballot thread (it wouldn’t let me comment). Some small credit for playing for a pennant contender

1. Ed Delahanty
2. Vic Willis
3. Jimmy Williams
4. John McGraw
5. Joe McGinnity
6. Noodles Hahn
7. Jay Hughes
8. Honus Wagner
9. Jesse Burkett
10.Cy Young
   9. DL from MN Posted: May 31, 2022 at 09:04 AM (#6079161)
Moved your ballot over. I can do that for others if needed.

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