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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Wednesday, January 21, 2015Most Meritorious Player: 1902 DiscussionThe upstart American League is quickly becoming as good as the senior circuit. Here is a good site to reference. No World Series yet but the Pittsburgh Pirates and Philadelphia Athletics win their respective leagues. Player SH WS BBR WAR Honus Wagner 34.6 7.3 Ed Delahanty 29.8 6.7 Bill Bradley 25.6 6.7 Napoleon Lajoie 21.1 5.1 Tommy Leach 26.3 5.9 Ginger Beaumont 31.0 5.1 Charlie Hickman 23.4 4.9 Lave Cross 26.9 4.4 George Davis 25.6 5.7 Sam Crawford 22.5 4.9 Fred Clarke 27.7 5.0 Fred Tenney 23.7 5.1 Bobby Wallace 22.2 5.1 Jimmy Collins 19.8 4.4 Jimmy Williams 17.7 2.4 Socks Seybold 23.7 4.3 Jesse Burkett 24.2 3.7 Heinie Peitz 14.6 3.2 Claude Ritchey 16.9 3.8 Jimmy Slagle 22.2 4.4 Fielder Jones 25.5 3.6 Willie Keeler 24.6 4.1 Jimmy Ryan 18.6 3.4 Sammy Strang 25.0 4.0 Buck Freeman 22.0 3.9 Jimmy Scheckard 23.3 3.8 Dan McGann 13.9 3.3 Bill Dahlen 21.9 4.2 Johnny Kling 17.1 3.6 Roy Thomas 25.2 3.2 Jimmy Barrett 21.2 3.1 Ossie Schreckengoest 15.5 2.0 Harry Bemis 11.3 2.4 Pitcher Rube Waddell 31.5 10.3 Cy Young 38.0 10.1 Jack Taylor 31.2 10.2 Joe McGinnity 24.3 8.5 Noodles Hahn 27.7 9.0 Bill Dinneen 28.4 5.9 Doc White 24.8 7.0 Bill Bernhard 19.7 5.6 Eddie Plank 24.3 6.4 Win Mercer 19.3 5.7 Jack Powell 28.8 6.0 Vic Willis 31.2 8.1 Ed Siever 16.1 5.0 Red Donahue 29.9 4.7 Togie Pittinger 27.6 6.5 Jack Chesbro 25.4 5.3
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BookmarksYou must be logged in to view your Bookmarks. Hot TopicsMost Meritorious Player: 1900 Ballot
(5 - 4:41pm, Jun 28) Last: kcgard2 Hall of Merit Book Club (6 - 12:45pm, Jun 28) Last: progrockfan Most Meritorious Player: 1899 Results (6 - 1:51pm, Jun 22) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1900 Discussion (8 - 1:32pm, Jun 22) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1899 Ballot (10 - 9:54am, Jun 22) Last: TomH Most Meritorious Player: 1899 Discussion (9 - 9:04am, May 31) Last: DL from MN 2023 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion (160 - 1:54pm, May 11) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1898 Results (4 - 3:22pm, May 06) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1898 Ballot (8 - 10:07am, May 05) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1898 Discussion (7 - 1:08am, May 02) Last: Harmon Ripkowski Most Meritorious Player: 1897 Results (2 - 4:29pm, Apr 06) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1897 Ballot (11 - 4:15pm, Apr 06) Last: DL from MN Most Meritorious Player: 1896 Ballot (10 - 8:29pm, Apr 05) Last: Tubbs is Bobby Grich when he flys off the handle Heavy Johnson (74 - 1:38pm, Mar 22) Last: Dr. Chaleeko Most Meritorious Player: 1897 Discussion (6 - 5:34pm, Mar 17) Last: HAWK |
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1. DL from MN Posted: January 21, 2015 at 01:23 PM (#4885333)http://www.seamheads.com/NegroLgs/year.php?yearID=1902
Just going by typical aging curves Bill Monroe and Charlie Grant had to be top players. This will keep Monroe off my ballot:
"In 1902, while a member of the Cuban X Giants, [Monroe] had broken his ankle in a late July game at Chester, Pennsylvania and missed the remainder of that season."
1) Rube Waddell
2) Honus Wagner
3) Cy Young
4) Ed Delahanty
5) Jack Taylor - caught cheating by pitching in front of the mound
6) Bill Bradley
7) Napoleon Lajoie
8) Tommy Leach
9) Ginger Beaumont
10) Charlie Hickman
11-17) Lave Cross, Joe McGinnity, George Davis, Sam Crawford, Fred Clarke, Noodles Hahn, Fred Tenney
1) Rube Waddell
2) Honus Wagner
3) Cy Young
4) Noodles Hahn
5) Jack Taylor
6) Ginger Beaumont
7) Fred Clarke
8) Ed Delahanty
9) Nap Lajoie
10) Tommy Leach
Darrell Evans 2
Early Wynn 2
Goose Gossage 2
Joe Torre 2
Nellie Fox 2
Reggie Smith 2
Rick Reuschel 2
Whitey Ford 2
Hoyt Wilhelm 1
Rollie Fingers 1
Willie Randolph 1
Conversely, 5 ballot appearances typically means you're a HoM player. The only players with 5+ who aren't elected are Dale Murphy (6) and Dave Concepcion (5).
On to the 1902 preliminary ballot:
1. Rube Waddell (66.08) - if not for Waddell's minor league credit, Denton True would've eked out the top spot
2. Cy Young (50.78)
3. Honus Wagner (46.04) - NL MMP
4. Ed Delahanty (43.73)
5. Jack Taylor (40.54) - NL MMPitcher
6. Bill Bradley (38.66)
7. Noodles Hahn (37.86)
8. Nap Lajoie (36.17)
9. Vic Willis (35.16)
10. Joe McGinnity (34.79)
I agree, Dan, but we need some type of NeL conversions for the seasons in question. We just can't make it up as we go along.
The original "free agent" period of the modern period of MLB continued to heat up in 1902 as many more players from the NL jumped to the new AL. The one team that escaped this trend to a large extent was the Pittsburgh Pirates(and as a result also won the 1902 NL championship).
1902 All Star Teams
NL
C Johnny King
1B Fred Tenney
2B Heinie Pietz
3B Tommy Leach
SS Bill Dahlen
OF Honus Wagner
OF Sam Crawford
OF Ginger Beaumont
SP Noodles Hahn
SP Vic Willis
SP Jack Taylor
SP Deacon Phillipe
AL
C Harry Bemis
1B Charlie Hickman
2B Nap Lajoie
3B Bill Bradley
SS Bobby Wallace
OF Jesse Burkett
OF Ed Delahanty
OF Socks Seybold
SP Cy Young
SP Rube Waddell
SP Eddie Plank
SP Jack Powell
Batters: Start with RAA (using custom linear weights), adjust for park, position and defense (using DRA) Convert adjusted RAA to wins. Add 60% of normal Runs above replacement to get WARR (wins above reduced replacement). If applicable, any pitching WARR that a position player may have.
Pitchers: Calculate RAA using a pitchers FIP and calculate RAA using a pitcher's RA9.
Calculate RAA, using a blend of RA9 and FIP from above, adjust for quality of opposition and park. Convert adjusted RAA to wins. Add 60% of normal runs above replacement to get WARR (wins above reduced replacement). Add Hitter WARR for overall WARR. As well, a few pitchers have fielding numbers as position players which I take into account.
1. Cy Young 8.01 WARR
2. Rube Waddell 7.48 WARR must consider minor league adjustment for final ballot
3. Honus Wagner 6.80 WARR
4. Ed Delahanty 6.42 WARR
5. Noodles Hahn 6.23 WARR
6. Tommy Leach 6.07 WARR
7. Bill Bradley 6.02 WARR
8. Vic Willis 5.20 WARR
9. Jack Taylor 5.20 WARR
10. Sam Crawford 4.99 WARR
Rest of the top 20
Ginger Beaumont
Jimmy Slagle
Nap Lajoie
Charlie Hickman
Bobby Wallace
Eddie Plank
Fred Clarke
Fred Tenney
Jack Powell
Jesse Burkett
That prohibition prevented Lajoie from playing in 10 road games (by my count).
Assuming run scoring environment is the same, sure.
1. Rube Waddell, P, Philadelphia Athletics: minor league credit puts him over the top; without it, he'd be in 3rd just ahead of Lajoie
2. Cy Young, P, Boston Americans: this guy was pretty good; they should name an award after him
3. Ed Delahanty, LF, Washington Senators: led the junior circuit in OPS+ and Runs Created with 187 and 125
4. Nap Lajoie, 2B, Cleveland Bronchos: he's in 4th place, with or without credit for lost playing time due to a court decision; 176 OPS+ with +4 fielding at 2B
5. Bill Dinneen, P, Boston Americans: 121 ERA+ isn't much but those 371 innings are pretty impressive
6. Bill Bradley, 3B, Cleveland Bronchos: one of the great defenders of all time (+9 fielding for this season) having one of his best seasons with the bat (150 OPS+)
7. Ed Siever, P, Detroit Tigers: 195 ERA+ to lead the league, though 188 innings is really low for the era
8. Red Donahue, P, St. Louis Browns: top ten in ERA+ (127) and IP (316)
9. Charlie Hickman, 1B, Boston/Cleveland: 3rd in OPS+ and 2nd in RC; though a weak glove (-2 fielding) holds him back
10. Bill Bernhard, P, Cleveland Bronchos
11. George Davis, SS, Chicago White Sox: an outstanding year with the bat (123 OPS+) and the glove (+12 fielding)
12. Win Mercer, P, Detroit Tigers
1. Jack Taylor, P, Chicago Cubs: 206 ERA+ in 333 innings
2. Honus Wagner, SS/RF/1B/LF, Pittsburgh Pirates: 1st in NL with 162 OPS+ but time spent away from short reduces his positional value
3. Noodles Hahn, P, Cincinnati Reds: 169 ERA+ is 2nd best in NL
4. Vic Willis, P, Boston Braves: otherworldly 410 IP to go with a respectable 128 ERA+
5. Sam Crawford, RF, Cincinnati Reds: 1st in Runs Created with 99; 3rd in OPS+ with 153
6. Ginger Beaumont, CF, Pittsburgh Pirates: 4th in OPS+ with 151; adds value with +2 fielding in CF
7. Togie Pittinger, P, Boston Braves: the obscure oldtimer had 389 innings to go with a 112 ERA+
8. Fred Clarke, LF, Pittsburgh Pirates
9. Joe McGinnity, P, Baltimore/New York: includes both his NL and AL numbers
10. Tommy Leach, 3B, Pittsburgh Pirates
11. Heinie Peitz, C, Cincinnati Reds: catcher bonus vaults him over a number of outfielders
12. Jake Beckley, 1B, Cincinnati Reds: how did the Reds finish at only .500 with all of these players having great years?
1. Jack Taylor, P, Chicago Cubs: 206 ERA+ in 333 innings in the (still) tougher league
2. Rube Waddell, P, Philadelphia Athletics: includes minor league credit
3. Cy Young, P, Boston Americans: 164 ERA+ in 384 innings
4. Ed Delahanty, LF, Washington Senators: led the junior circuit in OPS+ and Runs Created with 187 and 125
5. Honus Wagner, SS/RF/1B/LF, Pittsburgh Pirates: 1st in NL with 162 OPS+ but time spent away from short reduces his positional value
6. Nap Lajoie, 2B, Cleveland Bronchos: 176 OPS+ with +4 fielding at 2B
7. Noodles Hahn, P, Cincinnati Reds: 169 ERA+ is 2nd best in NL
8. Vic Willis, P, Boston Braves: otherworldly 410 IP to go with a respectable 128 ERA+
9. Bill Dinneen, P, Boston Americans: 121 ERA+ isn't much but those 371 innings are pretty impressive
10. Bill Bradley, 3B, Cleveland Bronchos: one of the great defenders of all time (+9 fielding for this season) having one of his best seasons with the bat (150 OPS+)
11. Sam Crawford, RF, Cincinnati Reds
12. Ed Siever, P, Detroit Tigers
13. Ginger Beaumont, CF, Pittsburgh Pirates
14. Red Donahue, P, St. Louis Browns
15. Togie Pittinger, P, Boston Braves
Do the best job you can in the time you have.
"In April, Boston's Big Bill Dinneen hit John McGraw five times with pitches. Each time, [Umpire] Sheridan refused to award him first base on the grounds that McGraw had gotten hit intentionally."
"July 1 - Rube Waddell of the Philadelphia Athletics faces the minimum 27 batters in pitching a two-hit shutout against the Baltimore Orioles. Waddell strikes out the side three times in the game, once on nine pitches."
"McGraw enlisted two National League owners to secretly buy up a controlling interest in the Orioles' stock and then release virtually the entire lineup -- including Joe Kelley, Roger Bresnahan, and Joe McGinnity -- to the New York Giants and the Cincinnati Reds."
"July 17 - The Baltimore Orioles, with only five available players, are forced to forfeit a game to the St. Louis Browns and the American League takes over control of the team for the remainder of the season"
"September 10 - Rube Waddell of the Philadelphia Athletics, making only six relief appearance all season, starts twice in a double-header against the Baltimore Orioles and gets the victory in both games."
1) Honus Wagner
2) Rube Waddell
3) Cy Young
4) Ed Delahanty
5) Noodles Hahn
6) Jack Taylor
7) Nap Lajoie
8) Fred Clarke
9) Ginger Beaumont
10) Sam Crawford
No adjustments, still have to figure the order of 11-15
1902 prelim:
1-Waddell-Leads in WAA w/o minor league credit
2-Young-384 IP, 164 ERA+
3-Taylor-206 ERA+, but has eight less starts and fifty less innings than Cy
4-Big Ed in his final great year
5-Honus-Finally ensconced at SS
6-Noodles Hahn
7-Bradley
8-Lajoie
9-Willis-410 IP pitched, leads league in K's but Waddell kills him on rate stats
10-McGinnity-volume carries him into the top 10
ballot to create. Surprised how pitcher-heavy this year was.
1. George Waddell. (bonus for minor league time; #6 on MLB play only)
2. Cy Young.
3. Jack Taylor. I like his ERA+, but stands out less in comprehensive stats.
4. Ed Delahanty
5. Honus Wagner
6. Noodles Hahn. Similarity to tora's prelim is starting to freak me out.
7. Nap Lajoie. Slight credit to make up for games he was prohibited from playing.
8. Andrew Foster. Extremely speculative, as he was very young and data is sketchy.
I have no special information about his season, only what is posted above in this
thread. Call it a hunch.
9. Ginger Beaumont
10. Charlie Hickman
Did Wagner's part-time in OF/1B help his team less than if he played at SS? Do we know why he spent some time there; was it for injuries, or did the other SS (Conroy) sparkle so much on D that it "worked"? Was the manager giving Honus time elsewhere cause the club had a freaking 25 game cushion?? Is there any reason to give Wagenr some bonus for position flexibility, rather than simply cutting his WAR?
The man played a fine shortstop, and also led the league in the minor categories of runs scored and RBI. While missing 13 games. Even missing some time, his bb-ref WAR and WS in combo were significantly above other position players in his league. Oh, and he pitched 5+ innings allowing no earned runs.
It may not be intentional but positional flexibility is already built into WAR. Super-subs like Tony Phillips, Ben Zobrist and Martin Prado already do very well with WAR, more so than you might think by looking at their raw stats. I'm not entirely sure what the reason is- it's possible that the powers that be are adding small samples together for each position played rather than averaging them. In any case, you're double counting if you give a player extra credit for positional flexibility as that credit is already baked into WAR.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained_position.shtml
so I don't know how we could tell if it's true. Maybe I should check out a few Tony Phillips uber-utility years and see what gives.
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