BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: Most Meritorious Player: 1911 Discussion

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Wednesday, November 04, 2015

Most Meritorious Player: 1911 Discussion

The Athletics defeat the Giants in the World Series.

Player			SH WS		BBR WAR
Ty Cobb			47.8		10.7	
Joe Jackson		38.2		9.2
Eddie Collins		34.7		6.5
Honus Wagner		30.8		6.5
Frank Baker		34.5		6.4
Jimmy Scheckard		30.6		5.0
Birdie Cree		25.4		5.5
Sam Crawford		32.5		5.7
Tris Speaker		26.2		6.1
Frank Schulte		30.6		5.3
Ed Konetchy		26.0		5.1
Danny Murphy		24.5		4.3
Larry Doyle		26.6		5.3
Jim Delahanty		24.7		3.4
Chief Meyers		17.5		3.7
Fred Snodgrass		24.1		3.4
Larry Gardner		18.9		4.2
Art Fletcher		16.5		3.4
Joe Tinker		21.7		4.4
Johnny Bates		21.9		4.2
Harry Hooper		19.4		4.0
Sherry Magee		19.5		3.5
Clyde Milan		27.4		5.0
Jake Daubert		19.6		3.6
Fred Merkle		17.7		3.8
Matty McIntyre		22.9		4.1
Buck Herzog		12.2		2.5
Roger Bresnahan		13.3		2.8
Fred Clarke		20.0		3.7
Fred Luderus		19.6		3.5
Harry Wolter		16.5		3.6
Bris Lord		21.4		3.8

John Henry Lloyd
Pete Hill
Bill Handy
Bill Pettus
Louis Santop

Pitcher			SH WS		BBR WAR
Nap Rucker		29.2		8.9
Pete Alexander		32.4		8.0
Walter Johnson		30.9		8.8
Vean Gregg		28.3		8.8
Ed Walsh		30.8		9.1
Christy Mathewson	31.4		7.3
Babe Adams		23.6		6.8
Joe Wood		25.3		6.4
Lefty Leifield		22.7		6.6
Russ Ford		28.1		6.7
Earl Moore		23.2		4.9
George Mullin		22.3		6.3
Eddie Plank		23.0		6.3
Rube Marquard		26.6		5.8
Ray Caldwell		21.9		6.2

Jose Mendez
Walter Ball
Charles Dougherty

DL from MN Posted: November 04, 2015 at 04:16 PM | 13 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. DL from MN Posted: November 04, 2015 at 04:20 PM (#5088736)

I think Cobb might be unanimous finally in 1911.

2. Qufini Posted: November 04, 2015 at 04:47 PM (#5088783)

It took Wagner a few tries as well before he finally won one unanimously.

3. DL from MN Posted: November 04, 2015 at 06:59 PM (#5088903)

1911 Prelim

1) Ty Cobb - hit .420, nuff said
2) Joe Jackson
3) John Henry Lloyd - age 27 season
4) Eddie Collins
5) Honus Wagner
6) Nap Rucker
7) Frank Baker - leads league in Home Runs
8) Jimmy Sheckard
9) Pete Alexander
10) Walter Johnson

11-15) Bill Handy, Bill Pettus, Birdie Cree, Vean Gregg, Sam Crawford
16-20) Jose Mendez, Ed Walsh, Tris Speaker, Frank Schulte, Christy Mathewson
21-25) Babe Adams, Joe Wood, Lefty Leifield, Walter Ball, Ed Konetchy

4. DL from MN Posted: November 05, 2015 at 09:56 AM (#5089106)

I'm having a hard time determining how good I think Jose Mendez is this year and how to compare him to the other pitchers.

5. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 05, 2015 at 05:09 PM (#5089450)

Prelim:

1) Ty Cobb
2) Honus Wagner
3) Eddie Collins
4) Joe Jackson
5) Christy Mathewson
6) Frank Baker
7) Jose Mendez
8) Pete Alexander
9) Babe Adams
10) Nap Rucker

6. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 05, 2015 at 06:08 PM (#5089476)

Prelim (Take 2):

1) Ty Cobb
2) Honus Wagner
3) Eddie Collins
4) Joe Jackson
5) Christy Mathewson
6) Frank Baker
7) John Henry Lloyd - forgot him before
8) Jose Mendez
9) Pete Alexander
10) Babe Adams

7. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 07, 2015 at 07:24 AM (#5090252)

Prelim (Take 3 - should be the last one :-)):

1) Ty Cobb
2) Honus Wagner
3) Eddie Collins
4) Joe Jackson
5) Christy Mathewson
6) Frank Baker
7) John Henry Lloyd - forgot him before
8) Ed Walsh
9) Jose Mendez
10) Pete Alexander

8. DavidFoss Posted: November 07, 2015 at 08:44 PM (#5090541)

Live ball season in the middle of the deadball era. Scoring jumped a full run per game in the AL thanks to the introduction of the cork-centered ball. Higher offense than the 2010s. It took pitchers a couple of years to adjust -- probably by scuffing the ball more.

9. Yardape Posted: November 16, 2015 at 03:28 PM (#5096433)

1. Ty Cobb - Fairly easy.
2. Jose Mendez - DL has a good point above, it's hard to slot Mendez. But, he was the best pitcher in both the 10-11 Cuban winter league and the American Negro Leagues, per Seamheads. He pretty much dominated the Cuban league, which was the better competition in my view. That's pretty impressive, enough so that I'm slotting him at the top of my pitchers.
3. Christy Mathewson - best ML pitcher
4. Pete Alexander
5. Eddie Collins - with a WS bump.
6. Ed Walsh - best AL pitcher
7. Frank "Home Run" Baker - with a WS bump.
8. Honus Wagner - best NL position player
9. Sam Crawford
10. Walter Johnson

Shoeless Joe Jackson is the first man out; of course he could be on if I'm just overrating the Cuban pitchers. Luis Gonzalez of Habana also had a nice season and I considered him, but I don't think it quite slips into the top 10. John Henry Lloyd looked like he had good but not outstanding seasons in either Cuba or the U.S., so he doesn't make the ballot either.

10. DL from MN Posted: November 17, 2015 at 12:32 PM (#5097057)

1911 World Series

Player Name  G  AB  R  H  2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  SO  BA  OBP  SLG  OPS  SB  E
Home Run Baker  6  24  7  9  2  0  2  5  1  5  .375  .400  .708  1.108  0  2
Eddie Collins  6  21  4  6  1  0  0  1  2  3  .286  .348  .333  .681  2  3
Bris Lord  6  27  2  5  2  0  0  1  0  5  .185  .185  .259  .444  0  0
Danny Murphy  6  23  4  7  3  0  0  3  0  3  .304  .304  .435  .739  0  1

Larry Doyle  6  23  3  7  3  1  0  1  2  1  .304  .360  .522  .882  2  1
Art Fletcher  6  23  1  3  1  0  0  1  0  4  .130  .130  .174  .304  0  4
Rube Marquard  3  2  0  0  0  0  0  0  0  2  .000  .000  .000  .000  0  0
Chrs Mathewson  3  7  0  2  0  0  0  0  1  3  .286  .375  .286  .661  0  1
Chief Meyers  6  20  2  6  2  0  0  2  0  3  .300  .300  .400  .700  0  0
Fred Snodgrass  6  19  1  2  0  0  0  1  2  7  .105  .261  .105  .366  0  0

Pitcher Name  G  GS  ERA  W  L  SV  CG  IP  H  R  ER  BB  SO  WHIP  
Rube Marquard  3  2  1.54  0  1  0  0  11.2  9  6  2  1  8  0.857  
Chrs Mathewson  3  3  2.00  1  2  0  2  27.0  25  8  6  2  13  1.000

11. DL from MN Posted: November 17, 2015 at 12:40 PM (#5097067)

"Home Run" Baker came through in the World Series. Mathewson pitched 27 more solid innings and hit pretty well. Collins and Doyle got on base.

12. EricC Posted: November 17, 2015 at 03:11 PM (#5097241)

1911 prelim. JH Lloyd's available stats look good but not outstanding.
Mendez is a tough one- I'm basing this on 1910-11 winter and 1911 US
accomplishments. ERA+ and IP are used for pitchers as well as the
advanced stats, helping to distinguish among the glut of good pitchers.

1. Ty Cobb
2. Joe Jackson
3. Walter Johnson
4. Jose Mendez
5. Eddie Collins
6. Ed Walsh
7. Frank "HR" Baker
8. Vean Gregg
9. Christie Mathewson (NL MMPi; #2 Alexander)
10. Honus Wagner (NL MMPP; #2 Sheckard)

13. DL from MN Posted: December 10, 2015 at 02:32 PM (#5111933)

Missed this one but I don't think he makes top 10. Gavy Cravath hit .363 with a .637 Slugging in Minneapolis.

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Wednesday, November 04, 2015

Most Meritorious Player: 1911 Discussion

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