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Hall of Merit — A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best Thursday, January 03, 2019Most Meritorious Player: 1912 DiscussionTris Speaker and the Boston Red Sox defeated the New York Giants in the World Series. Pete Hill and the Chicago American Giants were the top black barnstorming team. Vote for 10. Player SH WS BBR WAR Tris Speaker 51.7 10.1 Joe Jackson 37.1 9.5 Frank Baker 38.8 9.3 Ty Cobb 38.7 9.2 Eddie Collins 36.9 8.8 Honus Wagner 35.9 8.0 Heinie Zimmerman 34.6 7.1 Larry Gardner 28.6 5.8 Johnny Evers 27.3 6.0 Chief Meyers 22.0 4.6 Bill Sweeney 23.3 5.3 Napoleon Lajoie 21.8 5.3 Stuffy McInnis 24.3 5.7 Clyde Milan 32.3 5.4 Amos Strunk 18.3 4.1 Buck Herzog 20.9 2.9 Donie Bush 18.5 5.0 Larry Doyle 28.8 5.0 Dode Paskert 24.1 3.7 Morrie Rath 25.2 4.0 Max Carey 23.5 3.0 Eddie Foster 25.0 5.4 Sam Crawford 23.2 4.7 Ed Konetchy 22.4 3.8 Chief Wilson 23.9 4.0 Del Pratt 19.3 3.6 Jimmy Sheckard 21.2 2.6 Joe Tinker 19.7 3.3 Bob Bescher 24.4 3.7 Duffy Lewis 21.4 2.5 Jack Barry 16.4 4.1 Pete Hill 12.4 2.4 Hurley McNair 7.0 1.5 Bruce Petway 3.3 0.9 Louis Santop 1.4 0.4 Jesse Barber 12.0 2.3 John Henry Lloyd 4.8 1.2 Grant Johnson 2.6 0.8 Wesley Pryor 8.6 1.5 Ben Taylor 2.4 0.2 Bingo DeMoss 1.0 0.4 Pitcher SH WS BBR WAR Walter Johnson 47.8 14.8 Ed Walsh 39.1 12.2 Joe Wood 43.3 11.5 Nap Rucker 22.9 8.3 Christy Mathewson 30.3 8.0 Pete Alexander 24.1 6.4 Slim Sallee 20.7 5.4 George Suggs 22.8 5.1 Rube Marquard 25.2 5.9 Ray Collins 18.6 5.9 Claude Hendrix 27.8 6.1 Jack Warhop 17.0 7.0 Vean Gregg 23.0 7.1 Art Fromme 21.8 4.4 Larry Cheney 24.9 4.9 Jeff Tesreau 22.0 4.7 Jean Dubuc 19.0 4.8 Eddie Plank 23.5 5.1 Eppa Rixey 13.9 4.4 Russ Ford 16.1 5.5 Bob Groom 25.5 4.0 Buck O'Brien 23.8 4.9 Howie Camnitz 21.8 4.6 Rube Benton 20.2 2.9 Hugh Bedient 20.0 4.3 Fred Blanding 18.5 4.8 Hank Robinson 16.6 4.4 Joe Williams 10.9 2.4 Dick Redding 6.4 1.5 Frank Wickware 5.0 1.5 Rube Foster 6.6 1.2 Bill Lindsay 7.5 2.2 |
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1. DL from MN Posted: January 03, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5802086)That said it appears that Pete Hill had his best season and was the best hitter in black baseball. Smokey Joe Williams was the best black pitcher and shut out a team of New York Giants and Highlanders in a postseason exhibition.
Some Eric C MLEs for the players on the list:
1) Tris Speaker - surprised me but he's ahead of the Big Train. Best hitter, best fielder not named Honus.
2) Walter Johnson - best pitcher
3) Joe Jackson - almost hit as well as Speaker.
4) Frank Baker
5) Honus Wagner - BBREF WAR underrates SS, outstanding with the glove
6) Ty Cobb - hit as well as Speaker but nowhere near as good in the field
7) Joe Williams - could be underrating him, would like to see his unregressed MLE
8) Ed Walsh
9) Eddie Collins
10) Dick Redding - relying on his MLE, better rate stats than Wood but fewer innings
11-12) Smokey Joe Wood, Nap Rucker
13) Pete Hill - pretty confident he is the 3rd best CF in baseball this season
14-15) Heinie Zimmerman, Larry Gardner
16-21) Christy Mathewson, Chief Meyers, Bill Sweeney, Jesse Barber, Johnny Evers, John Henry Lloyd
1) Tris Speaker
2) Walter Johnson
3) Smoky Joe Wood
4) Ty Cobb
5) Ed Walsh
6) Home Run Baker
7) Honus Wagner
8) Joe Jackson
9) Eddie Collins
10) Christy Mathewson
1. Tris Speaker 12.56 WARR
2. Joe Jackson 12.19 WARR
3. Ed Walsh 12.14 WARR
4. Walter Johnson 11.09 WARR
5. Joe Wood 10.40 WARR
6. Ty Cobb 10.06 WARR
7. Eddie Collins 9.07 WARR
8. Honus Wagner 8.58 WARR
9. Frank Baker 8.49 WARR
10. Joe Williams 7.90 WARR
Rest of the to 15
Heinie Zimmerman
Dick Redding
Christy Mathewson
Jeff Tesreau
Larry Gardner
1. Tris Speaker - wouldn't be the in the top spot without PS bonus.
2. Walter Johnson - MMPitcher
3. Ed Walsh
4. Joe Wood
5. Ty Cobb
6. Joe Williams - NgL MMP
7. Joe Jackson
8. Home Run Baker
9. Eddie Collins
10. Honus Wagner - NL MMP (wow - the AL dominated the best players this year)
11-15. Heinie Zimmerman, Dick Redding, Christy Mathewson (NL MMPitcher), Nap Rucker, Pop Lloyd (NgL MMPosition Player)
http://www.seamheads.com/NegroLgs/player.php?playerID=hill-01pet
193 OPS+ is above his 165 average and tops the hitters in the league. Not as good as 1909-1911 but still quite good. Then we see a decline to the 140-150 OPS+ range until the weird outlier in 1919.
1. Eddie Collins. This wasn’t an especially taxing assessment for me. #5 in OPS+ from second base; ridiculous plate selectivity with 101 walks at 3.6 walks per strikeout; brilliant on the basepaths with 61 steals at an 83.6% rate; 1st in putouts, 1st in DPs, 2nd in assists, and astounding range that made him 2nd in fielding percentage despite leading in errors for the only time in his career. I am very surprised at his low rankings from other voters, and suggest a re-assessment on their part. My initial evaluation sees him as comfortably above Speaker. But as always, I am amenable to counter-arguments.
2. Tris Speaker. Absolute killer defense in CF and a scorching bat make him a highly plausible #1, but lesser (though still excellent) plate discipline, below break-even steals, and a less vital (and somewhat less demanding) position in this pre-live ball season place him behind Collins by my lights. GIDP data for both would be invaluable but is unfortunately missing. I’ll be monitoring the debate here closely.
3. Smokey Joe Williams. This is, I think, his best season, and it pains me to not be able to place this immortal pitcher #1. My 1912 Most Meritorious Pitcher and Negro Leagues MVP. For those voters who have ranked Johnson but left Williams off-ballot, I’d personally like to know your justification.
4. Walter Johnson. The Train in one of his better seasons – and that’s saying something.
5. Ty Cobb. The best pure hitter in baseball, but nowhere near Speaker’s defensive equal.
6. John Henry Lloyd. The Chicago Leland-Giants’ player-manager, the Negro Leagues’ top hitter, and possibly their top defender as well. I may well be under-ranking him in my prelim, and could see him moving as high as #4.
7. Shoeless Joe Jackson. A pure hitter with a decent arm. While I discount his career, I do take pre-1919 individual seasons at their face value. Cobb is clearly superior to my mind.
8. Ed Walsh. An innings eater par excellence, with real relief value to boot.
9. Smoky Joe Wood. Slightly above Walsh’s level per inning, but Walsh has the sheer volume to top him.
10. Home Run Baker. To my eyes, clearly the best MLB infielder not named Collins. Factor in the Negro Leagues, though, and Pop Lloyd is a healthy step ahead.
I made a mistake on my prelim – and I'm sure it says something about me (and, hopefully, my commitment to getting this stuff right) that the thought of letting my mistake stand uncorrected for as long as half a day literally drove me out of bed at a stupid hour.
Pete Hill was clearly a superior hitter to Pop Lloyd in 1912. He also had a helluva throwing arm, and while I think I’ll still rank Lloyd over Hill based on my understanding of the quality of Lloyd's defense and the importance of his middle infield position, it's equally clear that both need to be on my ballot.
* * *
On Williams vs. Johnson:
Seamheads cites Bill Linsday – not Smokey Joe – as the top NgL pitcher for 1912. I bow to no one in my admiration for Seamheads, but I can't see this conclusion at all. Linsday has 6 points of ERA+ on Williams, but in 20% less innings. Linsday's K/BB ratio is 1.90 vs. Williams's 4.67. I'm sure I've got the right man there.
I'm equally confident that Williams pitched in dozens of unrecorded games, making raw WAR totals useless as a basis for direct comparison vs. Johnson. In recorded games, Johnson has Williams on K/9 (0.82 to 0.74) and WHIP (0.90 to 0.99), while Williams has Johnson on K/BB (4.67 to 3.99). None of these particular margins are colossal – but by direct numerical comparison, on these and other factors, Johnson does hold an edge on Williams.
I suppose what I see is an inner-circle great (Smokey Joe) at the top of his game, and another inner-circle great (Big Train) who gets there the following year. I acknowledge that I’m allotting Williams a Jamesian nudge (if I might be permitted the adverb) in consequence of this perception. It's quite possible, given the Train's level of dominance, that I've got my 3 and 4 slots reversed. I am however confident that Williams and Johnson both belong in my top four, and I hope I can persuade the electorate to move Smokey Joe into the upper ranks of their ballots, where I believe he clearly belongs.
* * *
On the weight of positional scarcity in my top-of-ballot placement of Eddie Collins:
I hold that if every player in 1912 MLB were simultaneously available to draft, the only logical #1 picks would be Eddie Collins or Walter Johnson. If your team missed out on Tris Speaker, you could still glut yourself on Ty Cobb, who's actually a superior hitter, or Shoeless Joe, nearly the hitter with nearly the outfield arm, or Wahoo Sam Crawford, with a nice bat and far superior baserunning prowess; whereas if you missed out on Collins, your next-best second baseman - Nap Lajoie, probably - represents a huge drop-off across the board: offense, defense, baserunning, selectivity, bat control, durability, you name it. Or choose Johnny Evers instead: different name, same result. 1912 Eddie Collins represents a total package far harder to replace - and therefore, to my way of thinking, of greater overall value - than 1912 Tris Speaker.
Besides which, Eddie was pretty damn good on his own merits, and my placement is (I believe) defensible on multiple additional grounds, several of which I cite in my prelim.
That's my 2¢.
1. Walter Johnson, P, Washington Senators: 243 ERA+ laps the field; 369 IP isn't too shabby either
2. Tris Speaker, CF, Boston Red Sox
3. Ty Cobb, CF, Detroit Tigers: a tight race between the two centerfielders but Speaker gets the edge in playing time and defense
4. Joe Jackson, RF, Cleveland Indians: 2nd to Cobb in OPS+, 2nd to Speaker in RC, +6 defense and 20% time in CF
5. Frank Baker, 3B, Philadelphia Athletics: 174 OPS+ while playing a premium defensive position (3B)
6. Heinie Zimmerman, 3B, Chicago Cubs: best player in the NL
7. Smokey Joe Williams, P, New York Lincoln Giants: 192 ERA+ in 95 IP over 12 documented games
8. Smoky Joe Wood, P, Boston Red Sox 177 ERA+ in 344 IP
9. Christy Mathewson, P, New York Giants: 161 ERA+ in 310 IP
10. Honus Wagner, SS, Pittsburgh Pirates: 3rd in NL OPS+ with 143, adds +20 fielding runs at SS
11. Eddie Walsh, P, Chicago White Sox: 149 ERA+ in astounding 393 IP
12. Pete Hill, CF, Chicago American Giants: 193 OPS+ and above average defense in CF
13. Jesse Barber, SS, Chicago American Giants: 166 OPS+ as a SS but only an average defender with an even 0 fielding
14. Nap Rucker, P, Brooklyn Dodgers: 151 ERA+ in 297 IP
15. Eddie Colins, 2B, Chicago White Sox
16. Jeff Tesreau, P, New York Giants: 173 ERA+ is tops in the NL
17. Bill Lindsay, P, Chicago American Giants: 198 ERA+ in 77 IP but gives back a lot of value by hitting for a 44 OPS+ as a OF
18. Pete Alexander, P, Philadelphia Phillies
19. Chief Meyers, C, New York Giants: 147 OPS+ is 2nd in NL
20. Rube Marquard, P, New York Giants
Here's the RPA leaders per the number of runs produced above the median:
1. Tris Speaker 53.33 runs
2. Ty Cobb 53.05 runs
3. Shoeless Joe Jackson 52.66 runs
4. Walter Johnson 49.81 runs
5. Smokey Joe Wood 40.39 runs
6. Eddie Collins 39.56 runs
7. Heinie Zimmerman 36.59 runs
8. Home Run Baker 36.56 runs
9. Ed Walsh 33.24 runs
10. Honus Wagner 30.29 runs
11. Christy Mathewson 29.14 runs
12. Jeff Tesreau 25.82 runs
13. Chief Meyers 25.66 runs
14. Sam Crawford 25.60 runs
15. Dode Paskert 22.39 runs
16. Larry Doyle 22.33 runs
17. Larry Cheney 22.23 runs
18. Nap Lajoie 21.54 runs
19. Johnny Evers 21.28 runs
20. Bob Bescher 20.71 runs
1985 Gooden 21.5
1995 Maddux 21.4
1972 Carlton 21.2
1994 Maddux 20.6
1997 Clemens 19.9
1968 Gibson 19.5
2000 P Martinez 19.5
2009 Greinke 19.1
1902 Waddell 19.1
1912 WALTER JOHNSON 19.1
1944 Trout 19.0
1945 Newhouser 18.8
1963 Koufax 18.7
1946 Feller 18.6
1972 Seaver 18.3
2004 Santana 18.2
1971 Seaver 18.0
1999 P Martinez 18.0
1971 Wood 17.9
2015 Greinke 17.9
1901 Young 17.8
1978 Guidry 17.7
1972 Perry 17.7
1995 R Johnson 17.7
1980 Carlton 17.5
1953 Roberts 17.5
This gets more interesting in 1913
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