BBTF's Hall of Merit Discussion :: Most Meritorious Player: 1913 Discussion

Hall of Merit
— A Look at Baseball's All-Time Best

Thursday, February 07, 2019

Most Meritorious Player: 1913 Discussion

Eddie Collins, Home Run Baker and the Philadelphia Athletics defeated the New York Giants in the World Series. The New York Lincoln Giants defeated the Chicago American Giants for the colored championship.

Vote for 10.

Player			SH WS		BBR WAR
Eddie Collins		39.1		9.0
Tris Speaker		35.9		8.4
Frank Baker		37.2		7.9
Joe Jackson		35.7		7.6
Ty Cobb			31.7		7.4
Gavvy Cravath		28.2		5.7
Burt Shotton		22.6		4.9
Sam Crawford		25.7		5.2
Stuffy McInnis		24.8		5.4
Napoleon Lajoie		22.6		5.3
Art Fletcher		23.9		4.5
Jake Daubert		17.1		4.0
Buck Weaver		22.8		3.8
Tommy Leach		24.3		4.0
Joe Tinker		16.2		3.8
Heinie Zimmerman	25.0		4.6
Vic Saier		25.6		3.7
Red Smith		18.8		4.3
Tillie Shafer		22.8		2.9
Chief Meyers		19.0		3.6
Clyde Milan		30.5		4.3
Honus Wagner		18.3		2.9
Jack Barry		18.9		4.8
Chick Gandil		22.7		4.0
Jim Viox		22.3		3.8

Cristobal Torriente	9.0		2.6
Pelayo Chacon		5.3		2.1
John Henry Lloyd	4.7		0.5
Pete Hill		9.3		0.5
Bruce Petway		5.7		1.4
Louis Santop		3.4		0.4
Grant Johnson		5.5		1.2
Ben Taylor		5.6		0.7
Bill Lindsay		8.9		1.9
Spotswood Poles		4.0		1.0
Charlie Grant		1.1		0.5


Pitcher			SH WS		BBR WAR
Walter Johnson		50.6		16.4
Reb Russell		32.0		9.1
Babe Adams		26.9		9.1
Slim Sallee		23.1		6.1
Pete Alexander		27.0		6.2
Eddie Cicotte		27.4		7.2
Jim Scott		28.8		6.7
Tom Seaton		28.9		5.5
Christy Mathewson	29.7		7.1
Cy Falkenberg		25.3		7.0
Larry Cheney		24.4		4.7
Willie Mitchell		20.8		5.8
Dick Rudolph		17.2		4.7
Ray Collins		18.3		5.5
Rube Marquard		25.2		5.6
Ray Caldwell		13.3		4.5
Jeff Tesreau		24.6		5.6
Nap Rucker		17.7		4.8
Lefty Tyler		18.9		3.3
Vean Gregg		23.1		5.1

Joe Williams		8.1		3.5
Dick Redding		2.2		0.2
Frank Wickware		8.2		2.3
Johnny Taylor		4.5		2.3
Sam Crawford		4.6		1.4
Dizzy Dismukes		4.0		1.6
Bill Gatewood		8.2		2.6

DL from MN Posted: February 07, 2019 at 02:34 PM | 13 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Related News:

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

1. DL from MN Posted: February 07, 2019 at 02:37 PM (#5813336)

Best pitching seasons in the history of the MMP project by my point score

1913 Walter Johnson 22.6
1985 Gooden 21.5
1995 Maddux 21.4
1972 Carlton 21.2
1994 Maddux 20.6
1997 Clemens 19.9
1968 Gibson 19.5
2000 P Martinez 19.5
2009 Greinke 19.1
1902 Waddell 19.1
1912 W Johnson 19.1
1944 Trout 19.0
1945 Newhouser 18.8
1963 Koufax 18.7
1946 Feller 18.6
1972 Seaver 18.3
2004 Santana 18.2
1971 Seaver 18.0
1999 P Martinez 18.0
1971 Wood 17.9
2015 Greinke 17.9
1901 Young 17.8
1978 Guidry 17.7
1972 Perry 17.7
1995 R Johnson 17.7
1980 Carlton 17.5
1953 Roberts 17.5

2. DL from MN Posted: February 07, 2019 at 02:39 PM (#5813338)

Found a great PDF with descriptions of early "Colored Championships"

3. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 07, 2019 at 07:51 PM (#5813504)

Prelim:

1) Walter Johnson
2) Eddie Collins
3) Home Run Baker
4) Tris Speaker
5) Shoeless Joe Jackson
6) Ty Cobb
7) John Henry Lloyd
8) Babe Adams
9) Reb Russell
10) Smokey Joe Williams

4. DL from MN Posted: February 08, 2019 at 12:52 PM (#5813724)

EricC MLEs for various Negro Leaguers in 1913

                  PITCHING          |  BATTING    |  TOTAL
Pitcher  AGE   IP  RAA   WAA   WAR  |  PA    WAR  |   WAR
========================================================
Redding   23  250  - 3  -0.3   2.2  |   83   0.2  |   2.4
Williams  27  300   25   2.9   5.9  |  100   0.5  |   6.4
RFoster   33  220  -16  -1.7   0.6  |   73   0.4  |   1.0
JMendez   28  250   40   4.7   7.1  |   83   0.2  |    7.3


BatterNm Age Lg Pos   PA Rbat Rbaser Rfield  Rpos RAA   WAA  Rrep RAR   WAR
========================================================================
BeTaylor  24 NL  1B  590   15    0       4   - 4   15   1.6   18   33   3.7
Torriente 19 NL  CF  300   15    0       0   - 2    14   1.5    9   23   2.6
GrJohnson 40 NL 2B    280   14    0    0     3     0   17   1.9    9   26   2.9
LouSantop 24 NL  C  400   18    0       0    6   24   2.6   12   37   4.0
PeteHill  30 NL CF   570    9    0    0     2    -3    8   0.9   18   26   2.8
HuMcNair  24 NL  CF  590   28    0     0     - 3   24   2.6   18   43   4.7
SpoPoles  25 NL  CF  580   19    1    0     3   - 3    20   2.2   20   40   4.4
PeChacon  24 NL SS    570  - 3    0      2     8    8   0.8   18   25   2.8
BiPettus  28 NL 1B    590   24    0    0     6   - 4   26   2.8   18   44   4.9
BruPetway 27  NL  C  480  -13    0       2     7  - 5  -0.5  16   12   1.3
JoHLloyd  29 NL SS    580   30    0    0     2     8   40   4.3   18   58   6.4

5. DL from MN Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:29 PM (#5813738)

1913 Prelim

1) Walter Johnson - best pitching season we have ever voted on
2) Eddie Collins - great glove year
3) Joe Jackson - best bat
4) Tris Speaker
5) Ty Cobb
6) Frank Baker
7) Reb Russell
8) Babe Adams - best NL pitcher
9) Jose Mendez - missed this one above in the WAR/WS because it was based on his Cuban Winter League stats, glad the MLE picked it up
10) Gavy Cravath - best NL position player

11-15) John Henry Lloyd, Joe Williams, Slim Sallee, Eddie Cicotte, Pete Alexander
16-20) Jim Scott, Chief Meyers, Frank Wickware, Napoleon Lajoie, Christy Mathewson
21-25) Cy Falkenberg, Cristobal Torriente, Tom Seaton, Stuffy McInnis, Louis Santop

6. DL from MN Posted: February 08, 2019 at 01:36 PM (#5813744)

Torriente and Chacon look a lot better in the raw stats than they do in the MLEs. For Torriente the rate stats look correct but it isn't predicting as much playing time. For Chacon the MLEs are grabbing the surrounding winter league seasons which aren't as good as his NGL stats.

7. DL from MN Posted: February 08, 2019 at 02:09 PM (#5813756)

Link to Ty Cobb's holdout article

He wanted $15,000 but settled for $12,000.

8. MrC. Posted: February 08, 2019 at 02:44 PM (#5813764)

1913 Prelim
1. Walter Johnson 17.10 WARR !!!!!! Not only did Johnson have a great pitching year, but was a very good hitter. And he did all that in an above average hitter's park.
2. Tris Speaker 11.19 WARR
3. Eddie Collins 10.35 WARR
4. Babe Adams 8.72 WARR
5. Frank Baker 8.30 WARR
6. Ty Cobb 7.56 WARR
7. Joe jackson 7.49 WARR
8. Christy Mathewson 6.55 WARR
9. Jose Mendez 6.34 WARR
10. Burt Shotton 6.29 WARR

Rest of top 15
11. Buck Weaver
12. Reb Russell
13. Red Smith
14. Slim Sallee
15. John Henry Lloyd

9. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: February 08, 2019 at 04:29 PM (#5813799)

Revised prelim:

1) Walter Johnson
2) Eddie Collins
3) Home Run Baker
4) Tris Speaker
5) Shoeless Joe Jackson
6) Ty Cobb
7) John Henry Lloyd
8) Babe Adams
9) Jose Mendez
10) Smokey Joe Williams

I totally forgot about Mendez for the last election. If I could revise my ballot, I would have had him as high as fourth!

10. DL from MN Posted: February 08, 2019 at 05:26 PM (#5813823)

Yeah, I forgot to do Gavy Cravath MLEs for 1912 also.

11. DL from MN Posted: February 21, 2019 at 11:59 AM (#5817077)

1913 World Series

Player Name G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB E WPA
Frank Baker 5 20 2 9 0 0 1 7 0 2 .450 .450 .600 1.050 1 1 0.30
Jack Barry 5 20 3 6 3 0 0 1 0 0 .300 .300 .450 .750 0 1 0.24
Eddie Collins 5 19 5 8 0 2 0 3 1 2 .421 .450 .632 1.082 3 1 0.33
Stuffy McInnis 5 17 1 2 1 0 0 2 0 2 .118 .118 .176 .294 0 0 -0.25
Wally Schang 4 14 2 5 0 1 1 7 2 4 .357 .438 .714 1.152 0 1 0.33

Art Fletcher 5 18 1 5 0 0 0 3 1 1 .278 .350 .278 .628 1 1 -0.15
Chief Meyers 1 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 0 0 -0.12
Tillie Shafer 5 19 2 3 1 1 0 1 2 3 .158 .238 .316 .554 0 0 -0.14
Christy Mathewson 2 5 1 3 0 0 0 1 1 0 .600 .667 .600 1.267 0 0 0.44

Pitcher Name G GS ERA W L SV CG IP H R ER BB SO WHIP WPA
Christy Mathewson 2 2 0.95 1 1 0 2 19.0 14 3 2 2 7 0.842 0.65
Jeff Tesreau 2 1 5.40 0 1 0 0 8.1 11 7 5 1 4 1.440 -0.23

Mathewson was phenomenal but the A's won due to stars Collins and Baker, a great series from Wally Schang and good pitching from Albert Bender and aging veteran Eddie Plank.

12. Qufini Posted: March 05, 2019 at 06:36 PM (#5820558)

1913 Prelim Ballot

An AL Heavy Year

1. Walter Johnson, P, Washington Senators: the best pitching season ever?
2. Joe Jackson, RF, Cleveland Indians: 192 OPS+ is 2nd in AL, 133 RC is 1st
3. Tris Speaker, CF, Boston Red Sox: 182 OPS+ is only good for 3rd in AL; 120 RC is 2nd
4. Eddie Collins, 2B, Chicago White Sox: 164 OPS+ while contributing +11 with the glove
5. Ty Cobb, CF, Detroit Tigers: 194 OPS+ leads AL but injuries limited him to 122 games
6. Christy Mathewson, P, New York Giants: leads the NL with 153 ERA+ in 306 innings
7. Eddie Cicotte, P, Chicago White Sox: 186 ERA+ is pretty good
8. Cristobal Torriente, RF, Cuban Stars of Havana: 192 OPS+ is pretty good, too
9. Home Run Baker, 3B, Philadelphia Athletics: 167 OPS+ from the hot corner
10. Babe Adams, P, Pittsburgh Pirates: claims the last ballot spot with 140 ERA+ in 313 IP

11. Reb Russell, P, Chicago White Sox
12. Gavvy Cravath, RF, Philadelphia Phillies: top position player in the NL
13. Jim Scott, P, Chicago White Sox: what a rotation!
14. Smoky Joe Williams, P, New York Lincoln Giants
15. Pelayo Chacon, SS, Cuban Stars of Havana

13. Tom and Shivs couples counselor Posted: March 05, 2019 at 06:39 PM (#5820560)

2--Tried the link and got the 404 error message. Just sharing. No criticism

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

<< Back to main

Thursday, February 07, 2019

Most Meritorious Player: 1913 Discussion

Reader Comments and Retorts

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

Bookmarks

Hot Topics

Syndicate